Why Marcus Smart should start at SG

[SichtingLives]

I feel like NL is only looking at this in the context of Smart vs. AB while very specifically zoning in on all things Smart while ignoring the far more important and real issues of what this organization needs to sort out in a very short period of time before they decide what to do with Rondo. Smart, Rondo, Bradley, Sully, Olynyk, Zeller, Fav, Turner, Thornton, Pressey, Young then Green and Wallace to a lesser extent all have something they need to prove this year but it's all individualized. Besides the obvious that many will be fighting each other for playing time, the idea isn't to pit them against each other. They are going to be be playing to show their strengths (while concurrently making their weaknesses more clear), some will be playing multiple positions, some will be playing to show what kind of growth they've made since last season, some will be playing to show if they fit into this system, the rookies are going to give us whatever they give us while others will be playing to show if they are fully recovered from injury and it will all be to suit the purpose of giving the Coaching/FO a better idea of how (and who) is going to best fit together moving forward as well as how each position and need should be prioritized.

I'm with pretty much everyone here that Smart is the odds on PG of the future. I think the only way Rondo is still a Celtic beyond this season is if somehow, Smart falls on his face or proves to be utterly incapable of being a 2nd year starting point guard. Without even having seen him play an NBA game I have a hard time imagining that happening but it's also pretty far from inconceivable. I think the organization wants to see him run the point as much as possible this year. Of course that will be a difficult proposition if Rondo is playing 35 mpg, so obviously Smart will split time between both guard positions as the first guard off the bench (presumably... we'll see what Thornton brings to the table). I don't think the organization would've drafted Smart over Randle if they were projecting him as a SG in this league. The night of the draft I was a little mystified by the pick but since then I think it was perfect Rondo insurance to make sure we weren't going to be left with another hole to fill in the middle of this rebuilding effort should Rondo's situation take him elsewhere. I will say that if Boston pulls the trigger on a Rondo trade before the deadline, it will be because they are comfortable handing the keys to Smart. (There's that whole thing where they could pull a 180, trade Smart and/or Bradley and keep Rondo but I'm not even going to address that here)

Obviously you love the kid and I'm enthusiastic about him myself but I think you need to have a little patience with what's going on here, it's bigger than Marcus and this organization is still very much in the midst of strategic thinking and accumulating observational data over simply trying to put the best team on the floor for 48 minutes per game (and that's because they don't know what the best team is at this point in time).

Don't underestimate their need to see Avery have a breakout season either. It's very important to this team that AB continues to grow because the hope in resigning him is not that he simply stays who he is, it's that he turns that new contract into one of the biggest bargains in the league within the next 2-3 seasons. Thats going to require that he starts so long as he's healthy. I'm not sure why anyone is assuming he's reached his ceiling as a player yet either. Obviously the FO doesn't agree with that.

[humblebum]

Again, you're ignoring fit here. Sure it's possible that Smart is the next D-Wade but D-Wade has had guys like Chalmers alongside him at PG, a vastly superior three point threat than Rondo. He also had Bosh at the Center position and whatever your feelings about Olynyk it's pretty damn clear that he ain't no Chris Bosh.

Basically, you're just getting WAY ahead of yourself and it's understandable given Smart's immense potential. But more of that potential is tied into his floor generalship, emotional leadership and defense than to his scoring prowess. He can certainly score the ball, but he's got a lot of developing to do as a player before he becomes a guy who is considered "go-to".

Whether we like it or not, Smart will have to take a backseat to Rondo (to a certain extent) as long as Rajon is here. Thats not a bad thing either. Smart can learn a lot from Rondo and it's always good for rookies to be challenged and pushed by veteran players.

Over time, it's quite possible that Smart supplants either Rondo or Bradley in the starting lineup. But there is almost no way (barring injury) that happens at the start of this season. Bradley made significant strides last season as a player and he's only going to be improved and better prepared heading into this season. Not only that but he's a proven guy at this level, he has a head start on all the plays and systems that Stevens runs. And of course he has superb chemistry with Rondo who is the leader of this team at present.

As far as comparing Bradley and Smart as defenders. I'd agree that Smart is superior in terms of his BBIQ and intangibles but Bradley is just a fast twitch muscle freak which allows him to challenge ball handlers in ways very few guys can. You talking about Bradley getting abused by bigger men is mostly just based on bias. Bradley is EXCELLENT at fronting the post and denying easy looks at the basket. Sure, guys can shoot over him but it's very hard for bigger guys to attack him off the bounce because of his quick feet and active hands.

Smart has more versatility and may end up being better, but we are talking about one of the top 5 or so perimeter defenders in the league. And Bradley is also still learning the team defense stuff so going into year 2 under Stevens it's quite possible we see a leap in terms of his performance all around.

In short, Bradley is poised for a breakout year. And Smart is the perfect guy to be the leader of the bench mob. That's pretty much why I believe in this team's potential this season. The backcourt depth with Smart in town is tremendous and will allow Stevens to mix and match depending on the opponent. But Rondo-Bradley is the starting backcourt barring injury.

[ballup]

I'm going to cut this down into sections and moving similar points around for simplicity instead of writing a whole wall and missing a few points.

People here talk about how the Celtics don't have a go-to scorer, but I think Smart can absolutely be that just about from day 1.

Nobody suggested that Ray Allen should start over DWade just because Ray was a much better 3 point shooter. I see Smart as a less explosive and exciting, but stronger and just as effective version of DWade.

Smart has to prove that first. You don't throw a rook into the lineup if there is already an established vet, who is proven to be better in the NBA at the moment, playing the same position. As for the Heat situation, Wade was better than Allen. Also, by the time the Heat got Allen, Wade and Lebron found a playstyle that was effective enough to win them games.

If Stevens was like Doc and wanted or refused to resist Rondo dominating the ball and the offense, then Bradley would start to make slightly more sense.
But I don't think Stevens has any intention of letting Rondo dominate the ball and the organization. And having Smart next to Rondo is going to strengthen Stevens hand in any battle of wills Stevens might have with Rondo.

I think Stevens is going to demand good ball movement and a quicker pace, and having Smart on the floor next to Rondo is going to help Rondo get with the program. And if Rondo insists on his stubborn ways, he's not going to have any leverage.

When Smart comes down with the defensive rebound or somebody passes him the outlet pass, Rondo is going to be told to fill a G_d D_mn lane and run up the court, instead of looking for the ball and slowing things way down.

Rondo/Smart is going to be a lot like Rondo/Pierce during our glory days. Rondo was our point guard and quarterback, but the offense was still often run through Pierce, and Rondo deferred to Pierce enough that it worked out really well. Rondo is simply going to have to learn how to defer to Smart regularly.

Having Rondo dominate the ball makes a lot more sense when he's playing alongside poor passers like Bradley, Bass, and (to a lesser extent) Green. But we saw the team get worse when Rondo came back last year, just like we saw the Celtics get better the day after Rondo got hurt in January '13.

Stevens didn't take this Celtics job to sit back and watch the Rondo show. This is Stevens' team, he wants to go uptempo, and he wants to run a motion offense in the half court. Rondo has two choices.

I'm not sure where you got this crazy notion that Rondo is trying to manipulate Stevens. Those two have been on the same page since Stevens has arrived in Boston and still do to this day.

I've heard a few of you mention how perfect Smart is for a role as super-sub, but this is something that Bradley can also do. A fresh Bradley guarding backup point guards for 94 ft can have a big impact on every game, and Bradley can create his own offense very well, even if it usually seems to result in long twos or 3s.

Bradley has trouble creating for others and is not great creating for himself. Him being on the bench crew won't bode well unless you are willing to highly stagger the rotation (One starter out and Bradley in for five minutes and then switch) or if you are willing to always stick Pressey with Bradley.

Another point I've heard made is that Bradley is a good perimeter defender and so is Smart. But defense isn't just about guarding your own guy on the perimeter. It's not even just about guarding your own guy. Sure, Bradley and Smart are both excellent on-ball, perimeter defenders. But that's only part of the equation.

Smart can switch onto ones, twos, threes, and even fours. He even weighs about as much as centers like Larry Sanders. When Bradley gets switched up onto these bigger guys and gets destroyed, we just write it off because Bradley is only 180-190 pounds.

Not only can Smart switch onto all these different positions and hold his own and prevent untold buckets in doing so, but he can play much much better all around off ball defense. Smart has a much higher bbiq on both offense and defense, and his defensive impact is only partially captured by looking at his on-ball defense.

Stop. Stop. Stop. I can follow the notion that Smart could possibly defend some 3s in some rare situations, but come on 4s? You do know that there 4s who can stretch the floor are getting more popular these days? Those guys would just shoot over Smart. Hell, as long as they are in somewhat relative decent position, any starting 4 can get an easy O-Rebound just because of the height difference. You are talking about pretty rare situations, not something that happens in a quarterly basis each game.

Even with last year's team, we lost dozens of games by 6 points or less. Smart is the kind of guy that can regularly dominate games even when his shot is off, and that kind of impact swings a lot of close losses into victories.

Smart is good for 2-3 extra rebounds per game, 1-2 extra steals per game, 5-6 extra free throws per game, 3-5 extra assists per game, while being just as good of an overall scorer. In addition to the stats that get recorded, the team's defensive performance when Smart is on the court is going to be noticeable, because of all the times that Smart forces a turnover without getting the steal, and the successful switches onto forwards that doesn't result in easy baskets.

Smart hasn't played a minute in an NBA regular season game. He hasn't shown dominance yet so pull the brake hard on that hype train you are riding on.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

Again, you're ignoring fit here. Sure it's possible that Smart is the next D-Wade but D-Wade has had guys like Chalmers alongside him at PG, a vastly superior three point threat than Rondo. He also had Bosh at the Center position and whatever your feelings about Olynyk it's pretty damn clear that he ain't no Chris Bosh.

Basically, you're just getting WAY ahead of yourself and it's understandable given Smart's immense potential. But more of that potential is tied into his floor generalship, emotional leadership and defense than to his scoring prowess. He can certainly score the ball, but he's got a lot of developing to do as a player before he becomes a guy who is considered "go-to".

Whether we like it or not, Smart will have to take a backseat to Rondo (to a certain extent) as long as Rajon is here. Thats not a bad thing either. Smart can learn a lot from Rondo and it's always good for rookies to be challenged and pushed by veteran players.

Over time, it's quite possible that Smart supplants either Rondo or Bradley in the starting lineup. But there is almost no way (barring injury) that happens at the start of this season. Bradley made significant strides last season as a player and he's only going to be improved and better prepared heading into this season. Not only that but he's a proven guy at this level, he has a head start on all the plays and systems that Stevens runs. And of course he has superb chemistry with Rondo who is the leader of this team at present.

As far as comparing Bradley and Smart as defenders. I'd agree that Smart is superior in terms of his BBIQ and intangibles but Bradley is just a fast twitch muscle freak which allows him to challenge ball handlers in ways very few guys can. You talking about Bradley getting abused by bigger men is mostly just based on bias. Bradley is EXCELLENT at fronting the post and denying easy looks at the basket. Sure, guys can shoot over him but it's very hard for bigger guys to attack him off the bounce because of his quick feet and active hands.

Smart has more versatility and may end up being better, but we are talking about one of the top 5 or so perimeter defenders in the league. And Bradley is also still learning the team defense stuff so going into year 2 under Stevens it's quite possible we see a leap in terms of his performance all around.

In short, Bradley is poised for a breakout year. And Smart is the perfect guy to be the leader of the bench mob. That's pretty much why I believe in this team's potential this season. The backcourt depth with Smart in town is tremendous and will allow Stevens to mix and match depending on the opponent. But Rondo-Bradley is the starting backcourt barring injury.

I agree with you on Bradley. I have quietly been thinking this year will be a break out year for him. if he's healthy all year and is in as great a shape as he claims to be in, I think he's going to get noticed around the league this year.

[NL41]

I'm going to cut this down into sections and moving similar points around for simplicity instead of writing a whole wall and missing a few points.

People here talk about how the Celtics don't have a go-to scorer, but I think Smart can absolutely be that just about from day 1.

Nobody suggested that Ray Allen should start over DWade just because Ray was a much better 3 point shooter. I see Smart as a less explosive and exciting, but stronger and just as effective version of DWade.

Smart has to prove that first. You don't throw a rook into the lineup if there is already an established vet, who is proven to be better in the NBA at the moment, playing the same position.

Another point I've heard made is that Bradley is a good perimeter defender and so is Smart. But defense isn't just about guarding your own guy on the perimeter. It's not even just about guarding your own guy. Sure, Bradley and Smart are both excellent on-ball, perimeter defenders. But that's only part of the equation.

Smart can switch onto ones, twos, threes, and even fours. He even weighs about as much as centers like Larry Sanders. When Bradley gets switched up onto these bigger guys and gets destroyed, we just write it off because Bradley is only 180-190 pounds.

Not only can Smart switch onto all these different positions and hold his own and prevent untold buckets in doing so, but he can play much much better all around off ball defense. Smart has a much higher bbiq on both offense and defense, and his defensive impact is only partially captured by looking at his on-ball defense.

Stop. Stop. Stop. I can follow the notion that Smart could possibly defend some 3s in some rare situations, but come on 4s? You do know that there 4s who can stretch the floor are getting more popular these days? Those guys would just shoot over Smart. Hell, as long as they are in somewhat relative decent position, any starting 4 can get an easy O-Rebound just because of the height difference. You are talking about pretty rare situations, not something that happens in a quarterly basis each game.

Even with last year's team, we lost dozens of games by 6 points or less. Smart is the kind of guy that can regularly dominate games even when his shot is off, and that kind of impact swings a lot of close losses into victories.

Smart is good for 2-3 extra rebounds per game, 1-2 extra steals per game, 5-6 extra free throws per game, 3-5 extra assists per game, while being just as good of an overall scorer. In addition to the stats that get recorded, the team's defensive performance when Smart is on the court is going to be noticeable, because of all the times that Smart forces a turnover without getting the steal, and the successful switches onto forwards that doesn't result in easy baskets.

Smart hasn't played a minute in an NBA regular season game. He hasn't shown dominance yet so pull the brake hard on that hype train you are riding on.

You're in for a big surprise if you think Smart can only rarely guard "some threes in rare situations." He's 10 pounds stronger than Tony Allen, and only has a 3" shorter standing reach. Kevin Durant can theoretically "just shoot over" Tony Allen, and yet he's acknowledged that Allen is basically inside his head and guards him very well. Even Chris Paul gave Durant a very hard time in the playoffs this year, and Smart is much stronger than CP3.

Against smaller SFs like Iguadala and and DeRozen, don't be surprised if Smart is the best defender on our roster to guard them.

Kevin Durant admits Tony Allen has gotten is in his head http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... -his-head/

[NL41]

In the last 8 games of Smart's season, ie the games after he returned from suspension, he averaged 4.5 steals per game, in arguably the toughest conference in college basketball. That's what you call an upward trend. Into the stratosphere.

[SuperDeluxe]

You're in for a big surprise

Judging by your constant ignoring of a lot of issues pointed out to you in this thread, there's no one in for a bigger surprise than you. We've seen this movie before. That being said, I'm sure you'll somehow find a way to spin the whole thing to show you were right (even if Smart spends the whole season in the NBDL).

Smart will be the sub. Book it.

[NL41]

You're in for a big surprise

Judging by your constant ignoring of a lot of issues pointed out to you in this thread, there's no one in for a bigger surprise than you. We've seen this movie before.

There's been a few straw man arguments, like why do I think Rondo is manipulating Stevens, or the suggestion that I'm only looking at Smart's strength advantage to make my case. It's not worth clarifying some of these distortions or failure to read what I actually wrote, so why respond to them all?

Just like I shouldn't have responded to you when you agreed with most of what I was saying but still called my arguments stupid.

Sometimes people just want to disagree, even if they have to invent a straw man or go ad hominem to do so.

[SuperDeluxe]

Just like I shouldn't have responded to you when you agreed with most of what I was saying but still called my arguments stupid.

Really? LOL.

For the record, I called only one of your arguments stupid. Most of the rest I disagreed with as well, but I didn't think it was stupid.

Stating that Rondo is manipulating Stevens as fact (something you can't possibly know, unless you're Rondo or Stevens) is not a minor detail. Pointing it out is not a straw-man argument. (Well, maybe for you it is.)

I think you're going to be an amusing poster.

[NL41]

Just like I shouldn't have responded to you when you agreed with most of what I was saying but still called my arguments stupid.

Really? LOL.

For the record, I called only one of your arguments stupid. Most of the rest I disagreed with as well, but I didn't think it was stupid.

Stating that Rondo is manipulating Stevens as fact (something you can't possibly know, unless you're Rondo or Stevens) is not a minor detail. Pointing it out is not a straw-man argument. (Well, maybe for you it is.)

I think you're going to be an amusing poster.

And there you go proving my point. I never said Rondo was manipulating Stevens, even if you're now the second person to say so. You even went further, declaring that I "stated it as fact".

Thread title: "Why Marcus Smart should start at SG"

Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:17 pm by SuperDeluxe
"Smart will start... eventually."

Me: "If you still think Bradley is a lock for starting at shooting guard, you're probably also one of the many who have written this team off as having little or no chance of making the playoffs."

SuperDelux:

If your twin brother arambone hadn't been banned, he would've written the same stupidity with the same flair. (For the record, I've said that this team would win around 40 games this year. They might or might not make the playoffs, though in the east 40 wins might buy you a first round exit.

Why not just go all the way and say you think I make great points, and I could be right, but you still want to call it stupid?

[SuperDeluxe]

You're bringing the sexy back to this board, NL41. I don't miss your sister arambone anymore.

[NL41]

You're bringing the sexy back to this board, NL41. I don't miss your sister arambone anymore.

Apology accepted.

[ballup]

I'm going to cut this down into sections and moving similar points around for simplicity instead of writing a whole wall and missing a few points.

People here talk about how the Celtics don't have a go-to scorer, but I think Smart can absolutely be that just about from day 1.

Nobody suggested that Ray Allen should start over DWade just because Ray was a much better 3 point shooter. I see Smart as a less explosive and exciting, but stronger and just as effective version of DWade.

Smart has to prove that first. You don't throw a rook into the lineup if there is already an established vet, who is proven to be better in the NBA at the moment, playing the same position.

Another point I've heard made is that Bradley is a good perimeter defender and so is Smart. But defense isn't just about guarding your own guy on the perimeter. It's not even just about guarding your own guy. Sure, Bradley and Smart are both excellent on-ball, perimeter defenders. But that's only part of the equation.

Smart can switch onto ones, twos, threes, and even fours. He even weighs about as much as centers like Larry Sanders. When Bradley gets switched up onto these bigger guys and gets destroyed, we just write it off because Bradley is only 180-190 pounds.

Not only can Smart switch onto all these different positions and hold his own and prevent untold buckets in doing so, but he can play much much better all around off ball defense. Smart has a much higher bbiq on both offense and defense, and his defensive impact is only partially captured by looking at his on-ball defense.

Stop. Stop. Stop. I can follow the notion that Smart could possibly defend some 3s in some rare situations, but come on 4s? You do know that there 4s who can stretch the floor are getting more popular these days? Those guys would just shoot over Smart. Hell, as long as they are in somewhat relative decent position, any starting 4 can get an easy O-Rebound just because of the height difference. You are talking about pretty rare situations, not something that happens in a quarterly basis each game.

Even with last year's team, we lost dozens of games by 6 points or less. Smart is the kind of guy that can regularly dominate games even when his shot is off, and that kind of impact swings a lot of close losses into victories.

Smart is good for 2-3 extra rebounds per game, 1-2 extra steals per game, 5-6 extra free throws per game, 3-5 extra assists per game, while being just as good of an overall scorer. In addition to the stats that get recorded, the team's defensive performance when Smart is on the court is going to be noticeable, because of all the times that Smart forces a turnover without getting the steal, and the successful switches onto forwards that doesn't result in easy baskets.

Smart hasn't played a minute in an NBA regular season game. He hasn't shown dominance yet so pull the brake hard on that hype train you are riding on.

You're in for a big surprise if you think Smart can only rarely guard "some threes in rare situations." He's 10 pounds stronger than Tony Allen, and only has a 3" shorter standing reach. Kevin Durant can theoretically "just shoot over" Tony Allen, and yet he's acknowledged that Allen is basically inside his head and guards him very well. Even Chris Paul gave Durant a very hard time in the playoffs this year, and Smart is much stronger than CP3.

Against smaller SFs like Iguadala and and DeRozen, don't be surprised if Smart is the best defender on our roster to guard them.

Kevin Durant admits Tony Allen has gotten is in his head http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... -his-head/

(This is where I'd insult you for what you state, but I'm relatively new to this board and its boundaries) Derozan is not a SF! He's a SG DeRozan has played the 3 in the extreme minority small ball lineups. Anyone who follows the NBA enough to post in NBA forums should at least have a good generalization of the position a majority of the players are, especially the all stars. At least have the common sense to fact check your claims.

Just because Durant has had trouble with smaller defensive guards, doesn't mean that everyone else in the league would have the same trouble. TBH, not too many SFs are so great at punishing mismatches this upcoming season, so yes, Smart won't be at a disadvantage as frequently as I'd thought. Still, that wasn't the main point what I'm talking about. I'm all for trying Smart out on 3s, but I draw the line when you imply that we can be comfortable with Smart guarding 4s.

[Parliament10]

(This is where I'd insult you for what you state, but I'm relatively new to this board and its boundaries) Derozan is not a SF! He's a SG DeRozan has played the 3 in the extreme minority small ball lineups. Anyone who follows the NBA enough to post in NBA forums should at least have a good generalization of the position a majority of the players are, especially the all stars. At least have the common sense to fact check your claims.

Just because Durant has had trouble with smaller defensive guards, doesn't mean that everyone else in the league would have the same trouble. TBH, not too many SFs are so great at punishing mismatches this upcoming season, so yes, Smart won't be at a disadvantage as frequently as I'd thought. Still, that wasn't the main point what I'm talking about. I'm all for trying Smart out on 3s, but I draw the line when you imply that we can be comfortable with Smart guarding 4s.

Well written.


P.S.: A bit of advice in dealing with some people here.

"Some things are best left to their own devices."

[NL41]

You guys will note I list DeRozan in my original post listing the bigger shooting guards that Smart is better to suited to guarding than Bradley.

I've since researched the espn guesses at the depth charts of every team at the sg and sf positions. In doing so, I noticed that DeRozan was listed at SF, and DeRozan is taller and stronger than Ross.
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/depth/_/nam ... to-raptors

Either way, Smart is probably our best defender against DeRozan, not Bradley and probably not Green.

Just because Durant has had trouble with smaller defensive guards, doesn't mean that everyone else in the league would have the same trouble. TBH, not too many SFs are so great at punishing mismatches this upcoming season, so yes, Smart won't be at a disadvantage as frequently as I'd thought.

I thought you'd come around.

[ConstableGeneva]

I'd put Bradley/Smart on Lowry, longer/more athletic Green on DeRozan, and leave Rondo on Ross. Smart or Bradley on whoever brings up the ball is a good thing to milk opponent's shot clock and delay the point when they initiate their offense.

Bradley's still the best shooter on the team and our best NBA perimeter/lockdown defender until proven otherwise. But that's neither here nor there. My main focus on whether one starts or not is fit and chemistry for both units over individual talent (Rondo has zero chemistry with Smart right now while Bradley's played with Rondo for years). For now, I see Smart as our most logical choice for backup PG and potential leader of the bench guys (good way to train him too in the event of Rondo's departure).

[RondoToKG]

As for writing them off, what the hell does that mean? It's a fact that they are not going anywhere this season

Unfortunately, I'm not a retired mod, so I can't go calling people stupid.
So I'll just say thanks for posting.

Where did he call you stupid? He said what you wrote is stupid.

[canman1971]

This board is becoming brutally painful to read at times.

[pac213up]

I would like to see him a bit in Preseason before making any conclusions of what role he should play on the team.

[humblebum]

I would like to see him a bit in Preseason before making any conclusions of what role he should play on the team.

Lol... This pretty much should end this thread.