Bob McGinn Blue Chip/Red Chip personnel article

[paulpressey25]

McGinn published this yesterday.

If you wonder why the team is struggling, look no further than comparing 3 Blue/Reds in 2014 versus 9 Blue/Reds in 2012. I can't find the 2010/11 ranking articles online.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ ... 06551.html

2014 Rankings

BLUE (1): QB Aaron Rodgers.

RED (2): LB Clay Matthews, WR Jordy Nelson.

PURPLE (15): TE Brandon Bostick, T Bryan Bulaga, WR Randall Cobb, K Mason Crosby, DE Mike Daniels, LS Brett Goode, CB Casey Hayward, RB Eddie Lacy (+), G T.J. Lang, P Tim Masthay, LB Julius Peppers, TE Richard Rodgers (+), CB Sam Shields (+), G Josh Sitton (+), CB Tramon Williams.

GREEN (27): WR Davante Adams (+), T David Bakhtiari (+), T Don Barclay (-), LB Sam Barrington, DE Josh Boyd, WR Jarrett Boykin, S Morgan Burnett (+), CB Jarrett Bush (Yellow for cornerback, Purple for special teams), S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, LB Jayrone Elliott, C Garth Gerhart (+), NT Letroy Guion (+), RB DuJuan Harris (+), LB A.J. Hawk (-), CB Davon House (+), S Micah Hyde (+), WR Jeff Janis (+), DE Datone Jones, C Corey Linsley (+), LB Mike Neal, NT Mike Pennel, LB Nick Perry, TE Andrew Quarless, NT B.J. Raji (+), S Sean Richardson, RB James Starks (+), C JC Tretter (+).

YELLOW (9): LB Carl Bradford, QB Matt Flynn, LB Brad Jones (-), FB John Kuhn (-), LB Jamari Lattimore, LB Andy Mulumba, LB Nate Palmer, TE Ryan Taylor (-), QB Scott Tolzien (-).

WHITE (3): WR Jared Abbrederis (+), T Aaron Adams, DE Khyri Thornton.

BROWN (3): CB Demetri Goodson, T Derek Sherrod, G Lane Taylor.

2012 Rankings:

BLUES (2): QB Aaron Rodgers, LB Clay Matthews.

REDS (7): WR Greg Jennings, WR-KR Randall Cobb, TE Jermichael Finley, NT B.J. Raji, LB Desmond Bishop, S Charles Woodson (-), CB Tramon Williams.

PURPLES (12): WR Jordy Nelson, T Bryan Bulaga, G T.J. Lang, C Jeff Saturday (-), G Josh Sitton, T Marshall Newhouse, FB John Kuhn, RB Cedric Benson (-), LB A.J. Hawk, S Morgan Burnett, K Mason Crosby, P Tim Masthay.

GREEN (24): WR Donald Driver (+), WR James Jones, TE Tom Crabtree, T Derek Sherrod (+), RB James Starks (+), RB Alex Green, DE Ryan Pickett (+), DE Jerel Worthy (+), DE C.J. Wilson, DE Phillip Merling (-), DE Mike Neal, LB Nick Perry (+), LB Erik Walden, LB D.J. Smith (+), LB Brad Jones, LB Rob Francois, LB Frank Zombo, CB Sam Shields, CB Jarrett Bush, CB Casey Hayward, CB Davon House, S M.D. Jennings, S Jerron McMillian (+), LS Brett Goode.

YELLOW (13): WR Jarrett Boykin (+), TE Andrew Quarless (+), TE D.J. Williams (+), TE Ryan Taylor, C-G Evan Dietrich-Smith, T Don Barclay, QB Graham Harrell, RB Brandon Saine, DE Mike Daniels, LB Dezman Moses, LB Terrell Manning (+), LB Jamari Lattimore, S Sean Richardson (+).

BLACK (1): DE Johnny Jones.

[FAH1223]

TT is overrated folks...

[paulpressey25]

TT is overrated folks...

Whoever was in charge of getting that 2010 roster together did a fantastic job. Now if that was all TT or some significant input from Schneider, Dorsey, etc, we'll find out.

The real question for all of us is whether or not TT can regroup with his 2014 draft class as the season progresses, and/or we get anything out of 2012, 2013 guys like Nick Perry, Datone Jones, etc.

[Ron Swanson]

No, TT isn't "overrated", and way too many people are jumping on that bandwagon simply based on him not knocking every single pick out of the park. Does he deserve some blame for not stocking the cupboard with talent at certain positions (ILB, DE)? Absolutely, but this is more than just a "talent" issue.

You saw last game how proper utilization of personnel and scheme nearly shut down a very potent Lions offense. The problem was on the other side of the field when our offense looked like they couldn't figure out how to score against the worst secondary in football. Is the talent on offense that bad? Were the last 5 years a fluke? Is talent the problem or is it the utilization of said talent that's the problem?

People forget, but we are a very young team this year at some very key positions (S, D-line, WR/TE) and these guys need time to develop. That's been TT's philosophy throughout his entire tenure here, make tough cuts, keep the roster young, the cap healthy, and develop it along with the growing pains that will surely follow.

McGinn's "blue, red, green chip" charts are a fun read, but such labels are meaningless in evaluating an entire NFL roster because the labels are subjective and change on a yearly basis. I'd bet money on the odds that either one of Clinton-Dix or Davante Adams becomes a "red or blue chip" guy sooner rather than later.

[RiotPunch]

TT was becoming deified for a while there and was certainly overrated. Our FO as a whole is what was God-like, but we have been poached big time. Schneider, Dorsey, McKenzie... All of Ted's top consultants are gone, and that may have caused him to be a closer to average general manager.

[paulpressey25]

I'd bet money on the odds that either one of Clinton-Dix or Davante Adams becomes a "red or blue chip" guy sooner rather than later.

I'd also bet those guys make red or even blue chip as well in the next two-years.

The issue though is that you've got to add perhaps 3 blue/red chip guys for say three out of four consecutive off-seasons IMO to get this team back to being a Super Bowl favorite.

We've got to see more from the 2011-13 class step up. If they don't, then we are banking on TT running another string together from 2014-2017.

Possible/Existing Red/Blue guys from last ten drafts - open to critiques/additions

2005 Rodgers, Nick Collins
2006 Jennings, Johnny Jolly (maybe), Woodson (FA), Pickett (FA)
2007 James Jones, Bishop, Crosby (at times)
2008 Jordy, Finley, Sitton
2009 Raji, Matthews, TJ Lang
2010 Bulaga
2011 - Randall Cobb
2012 - Mike Daniels
2013 - Eddie Lacey, Bahktiari
2014 - To early to tell

[Ron Swanson]

I'd bet money on the odds that either one of Clinton-Dix or Davante Adams becomes a "red or blue chip" guy sooner rather than later.

I'd also bet those guys make red or even blue chip as well in the next two-years.

The issue though is that you've got to add perhaps 3 blue/red chip guys for say three out of four consecutive off-seasons IMO to get this team back to being a Super Bowl favorite.

We've got to see more from the 2011-13 class step up. If they don't, then we are banking on TT running another string together from 2014-2017.

Possible/Existing Red/Blue guys from last ten drafts - open to critiques/additions

2005 Rodgers, Nick Collins
2006 Jennings, Johnny Jolly (maybe), Woodson (FA), Pickett (FA)
2007 James Jones, Bishop, Crosby (at times)
2008 Jordy, Finley, Sitton
2009 Raji, Matthews, TJ Lang
2010 Bulaga
2011 - Randall Cobb
2012 - Mike Daniels
2013 - Eddie Lacey, Bahktiari
2014 - To early to tell

I'd add in Casey Hayward and Peppers (if we're counting FA) but yeah, we definitely need more out of guys like Perry, Datone, and Sherrod. I just don't think there's a specific formula for such a thing. And I think "fit" and proper utilization are just as important as talent in the NFL.

How many red/blue chip guys do we see on an offense like Philly? I see one definite blue (McCoy) surrounded by a bunch of guys who have specific roles and with a coach who knows how to utilize them correctly. Cooper, Maclin, Ertz, and Celek aren't blue or red chip talents, but just like a guy like Darren Sproles, their skills complement the scheme and allow them to make up for a lack of talent at certain positions.

I think TT has drafted the talent on both sides in order for this team to be a perennial contender (playoff losses be damned) and we are more healthy than we have been in years injury-wise, so I take much more issue with the coaching staff's inability to maximize the talent, than I do with the quality of talent itself. I think you need to look no further than the last game to see it.

[El Duderino]

How many red/blue chip guys do we see on an offense like Philly? I see one definite blue (McCoy) surrounded by a bunch of guys who have specific roles and with a coach who knows how to utilize them correctly. Cooper, Maclin, Ertz, and Celek aren't blue or red chip talents, but just like a guy like Darren Sproles, their skills complement the scheme and allow them to make up for a lack of talent at certain positions.

No question that Chip Kelly is a great offensive mind, maybe the best in the league, but you are ignoring their offensive line which when healthy is easily one of the best in the NFL. Peters is a top 5 LT, Kelce just might be the best center in football, Mathis is a good guard, and Lane Johnson is a quality RT. They got hit with injuries to that line, Kelce may be out awhile with a hernia and Mathis hurt his knee. If anyone can work around these injuries, it will be Kelly and the fabulous LeSean McCoy, but we'll see what the impact is to their great running game.

I think TT has drafted the talent on both sides in order for this team to be a perennial contender (playoff losses be damned) and we are more healthy than we have been in years injury-wise, so I take much more issue with the coaching staff's inability to maximize the talent, than I do with the quality of talent itself. I think you need to look no further than the last game to see it.

While i'm ready for a new coaching staff if the Packers struggle this year, i do think the overall talent on the roster has slipped. Hopefully Adams and Janis become players down the road, but most non-elite rookie receivers struggle to make much impact and Cobb isn't beating coverage much on his own. At TE, unless Bostick can become a threat to scare teams down the seam, defenses are going to continue shading safeties towards our receivers compared to when we had a TE threat in Finley. The offensive line has been a big disappointment so far to me, especially in the running game where they've been getting pushed around by defenses usually playing both safeties deep.

Defensively we have nice depth at corner and Dix i have a good feeling about among the secondary. On the front seven though, Mathews/Peppers is a quality OLB combo and Daniels was a steal in the 4th round, but there isn't much else there.

Going back to Cobb, he's the one guy i have a really hard time getting a read on. A couple off months ago McGinn wrote an article about Nelson and Cobb before Jordy signed his extension. He was asking/talking about if Ted paid either guy, who would he target first? When McGinn got to Cobb, he went back and looked at all of Cobb's plays over 20 yards i believe compared to Nelson. What he noticed was that most of Cobb's bigger gains came off broken plays where Rodgers got out of the pocket and Cobb freelanced to get open. There was a good and bad to that though. Good in that Cobb had the instincts to get open when Aaron was scrambling around, but bad that he struggled to consistently beat his man on regular designed routes as Nelson does, which was why McGinn felt Jordy should be Ted's first priority.

Now maybe it is more scheme related that Cobb isn't getting open a lot more often than his stats and the cameras show downfield, but on most plays we don't get that downfield view/coaches film to see exactly how Cobb is faring when matched against a corner in single coverage. So i really have no clear thought on what the team should offer Cobb after the season.

[raysbookclub]

2014 Rankings

BLUE (1): QB Aaron Rodgers.

RED (2): LB Clay Matthews, WR Jordy Nelson.

PURPLE (15): TE Brandon Bostick, T Bryan Bulaga, WR Randall Cobb, K Mason Crosby, DE Mike Daniels, LS Brett Goode, CB Casey Hayward, RB Eddie Lacy (+), G T.J. Lang, P Tim Masthay, LB Julius Peppers, TE Richard Rodgers (+), CB Sam Shields (+), G Josh Sitton (+), CB Tramon Williams.

GREEN (27): WR Davante Adams (+), T David Bakhtiari (+), T Don Barclay (-), LB Sam Barrington, DE Josh Boyd, WR Jarrett Boykin, S Morgan Burnett (+), CB Jarrett Bush (Yellow for cornerback, Purple for special teams), S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, LB Jayrone Elliott, C Garth Gerhart (+), NT Letroy Guion (+), RB DuJuan Harris (+), LB A.J. Hawk (-), CB Davon House (+), S Micah Hyde (+), WR Jeff Janis (+), DE Datone Jones, C Corey Linsley (+), LB Mike Neal, NT Mike Pennel, LB Nick Perry, TE Andrew Quarless, NT B.J. Raji (+), S Sean Richardson, RB James Starks (+), C JC Tretter (+).

YELLOW (9): LB Carl Bradford, QB Matt Flynn, LB Brad Jones (-), FB John Kuhn (-), LB Jamari Lattimore, LB Andy Mulumba, LB Nate Palmer, TE Ryan Taylor (-), QB Scott Tolzien (-).

WHITE (3): WR Jared Abbrederis (+), T Aaron Adams, DE Khyri Thornton.

BROWN (3): CB Demetri Goodson, T Derek Sherrod, G Lane Taylor.

2012 Rankings:

BLUES (2): QB Aaron Rodgers, LB Clay Matthews.

REDS (7): WR Greg Jennings, WR-KR Randall Cobb, TE Jermichael Finley, NT B.J. Raji, LB Desmond Bishop, S Charles Woodson (-), CB Tramon Williams.

PURPLES (12): WR Jordy Nelson, T Bryan Bulaga, G T.J. Lang, C Jeff Saturday (-), G Josh Sitton, T Marshall Newhouse, FB John Kuhn, RB Cedric Benson (-), LB A.J. Hawk, S Morgan Burnett, K Mason Crosby, P Tim Masthay.

GREEN (24): WR Donald Driver (+), WR James Jones, TE Tom Crabtree, T Derek Sherrod (+), RB James Starks (+), RB Alex Green, DE Ryan Pickett (+), DE Jerel Worthy (+), DE C.J. Wilson, DE Phillip Merling (-), DE Mike Neal, LB Nick Perry (+), LB Erik Walden, LB D.J. Smith (+), LB Brad Jones, LB Rob Francois, LB Frank Zombo, CB Sam Shields, CB Jarrett Bush, CB Casey Hayward, CB Davon House, S M.D. Jennings, S Jerron McMillian (+), LS Brett Goode.

YELLOW (13): WR Jarrett Boykin (+), TE Andrew Quarless (+), TE D.J. Williams (+), TE Ryan Taylor, C-G Evan Dietrich-Smith, T Don Barclay, QB Graham Harrell, RB Brandon Saine, DE Mike Daniels, LB Dezman Moses, LB Terrell Manning (+), LB Jamari Lattimore, S Sean Richardson (+).

BLACK (1): DE Johnny Jones.

Who is to blame when players regress? I notice from 2012 to 2014...
-Matthews went from blue to red
-Cobb went from red to purple
-Tramon went from red to purple
-Hawk went from purple to green
-Burnett went from purple to green
-Kuhn went from purple to yellow

About the 2012 REDS...
-WR Greg Jennings (is probably a purple acc to the scout anyway, but hey TT tried to sign him),
-WR-KR Randall Cobb (regressed though he's 2 years older in his early 20s),
-TE Jermichael Finley (injury),
-NT B.J. Raji (injury, and probably regressed),
-LB Desmond Bishop (injury),
-S Charles Woodson (cut, but he's not the same guy),
-CB Tramon William (regressed).

Not sure what TT is expected to do about those regressors. Should he have traded Clay while he was a blue? Trade Cobb while he was a red? Cut Tramon 2 years ago? Yeah, he should not have given that contract to Burnett, but he was a purple! And so was Hawk--btw that's odd to me, how was Hawk a purple? Whatever he is now is pretty much what he was then.

[M-C-G]

Two part problem;

1. As mentioned, we are noticing a significant regression in way too many players...We are seeing 7th round picks improve drastically, but not the guys that are taken at the top of the draft that we need to turn into impact players.

Most 7th rounders improve to a point where they become an average or slightly below average starter. 1st round picks should be improving to become game changers, and we have consistently seen that not be the case.

2. Related, but TT has really whiffed on 1st round picks since the Clay pick. As other's have said, we are just not getting much of anything out of them at all.

I mean, since 2007;
Harrell - bust
No pick
Raji/Clay - Serious regression/can't stay healthy
Bulaga - can't stay healthy
Sherrod - can't stay healthy
Perry - can't stay healthy
Datone - Hasn't shown much
HaHa - better than I have expected

Detroit over that same span added; Calvin, Stafford, Suh, Fairley, Reily, Ansah, Ebron

Granted, they had much better picks, but those guys are almost all impact players for them.

Seattle since 2010 has added; Okung, Earl Thomas, James Carpenter, Bruce Irving and Percy Harvin

Eh, I guess I am just ranting now.

[eagle13]

Possible/Existing Red/Blue guys from last ten drafts - open to critiques/additions

2005 Rodgers, Nick Collins
2006 Jennings, Johnny Jolly (maybe), Woodson (FA), Pickett (FA)
2007 James Jones, Bishop, Crosby (at times)
2008 Jordy, Finley, Sitton
2009 Raji, Matthews, TJ Lang
2010 Bulaga
2011 - Randall Cobb
2012 - Mike Daniels
2013 - Eddie Lacey, Bahktiari
2014 - To early to tell

I'd add in Casey Hayward and Peppers (if we're counting FA)[/quote]

James Jones NOT- Johnny Jolly NOT - Desmond Bishop ALMOST- Raji ONLY 1 YR
Bulaga WHEN UNHURT
Casey has to do it more than once