Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

[Sunsdeuce]

Easily one of the worst fake trades I've ever seen.

Law, my friend, you have to know that's horrible for the suns. First off, dragic should be the last player on anyone's mind to trade. I would venture to say dragic is nearly untouchable. Second, any trade where dragic is involved has to result in the suns receiving an All-star player.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I did not put this out there - it comes from the trade board. My comments were about the same as Carey's. It is awful.

Oh I got ya. I knew you were smarter than that. I was scratching my head with that.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Sunsdeuce]

This just came over my twitter.

@colezwicker: Cavs will have around $15M in non-guaranteed contracts next summer between Bogans and Haywood. Have picks & young pieces for star offer

Beyond their obvious stars, the only "asset" players would be waiters. Don't see where this guy thinks the cavs can get a "star" without losing one of their stars.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[lilfishi22]

This just came over my twitter.

@colezwicker: Cavs will have around $15M in non-guaranteed contracts next summer between Bogans and Haywood. Have picks & young pieces for star offer

Beyond their obvious stars, the only "asset" players would be waiters. Don't see where this guy thinks the cavs can get a "star" without losing one of their stars.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

lol late picks, one prospect and a whole lot of garbage. With the increasing salary cap, no one is going to do a trade and dump.

[Saberestar]

Now that things have worked out just fine, LeBron took to Instagram to congratulate both Bledsoe and Paul, while taking a shot at the critics at the same time.

“Congrats to my brother @ebled2!! Family stand for each other through the good and bad! I guess we still don’t know what we doing yet huh Rich!?! #StriveForGreatness #Klutch #RWTW”

When the Suns and Bledsoe still weren’t talking, James encouraged Phoenix to “break bread” in a similar Instagram post.

It’s clear that James has more than just a rooting interest where his agent is concerned, and while there may not be a formal financial stake for him in place, the level of influence wielded by the game’s best player will only help Paul continue to land clients.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

[thamadkant]

Has anyone have news about whether the Suns youth have changed heights?

Goodwin was 6'5 (in shoes) as an 18 year old draftee and was said to be still growing in a scouting post I've read. He could be 6'6 in shoes now and with a 6'10 wingspan... the guy can play SF and be a ball handling and penetrating SF....

Muscle mass wise, I've seen the photos and his arms and shoulders are bulkier.

If he can play PG, SG and SF... that would make sense why Suns dont see the PG/SG log jam they are creating.


Len: was 7'1 in shoes as a 20 year old... same issue with Goodwin, I read his growth plates were'nt "locked" yet.
Could be 7'2 by now?

[NaturalBuns]

Has anyone have news about whether the Suns youth have changed heights?

Goodwin was 6'5 (in shoes) as an 18 year old draftee and was said to be still growing in a scouting post I've read. He could be 6'6 in shoes now and with a 6'10 wingspan... the guy can play SF and be a ball handling and penetrating SF....

Muscle mass wise, I've seen the photos and his arms and shoulders are bulkier.

If he can play PG, SG and SF... that would make sense why Suns dont see the PG/SG log jam they are creating.


Len: was 7'1 in shoes as a 20 year old... same issue with Goodwin, I read his growth plates were'nt "locked" yet.
Could be 7'2 by now?

I hope not Len looked slow last year

[Sunsdeuce]

Now that things have worked out just fine, LeBron took to Instagram to congratulate both Bledsoe and Paul, while taking a shot at the critics at the same time.

“Congrats to my brother @ebled2!! Family stand for each other through the good and bad! I guess we still don’t know what we doing yet huh Rich!?! #StriveForGreatness #Klutch #RWTW”

When the Suns and Bledsoe still weren’t talking, James encouraged Phoenix to “break bread” in a similar Instagram post.

It’s clear that James has more than just a rooting interest where his agent is concerned, and while there may not be a formal financial stake for him in place, the level of influence wielded by the game’s best player will only help Paul continue to land clients.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

Lol. What exactly did rich Paul do that is so special other than ignore the suns all summer? My 12 year old son could do easily be an agent and just tell Bledsoe to hold out and don't talk to anyone until they give you, what you want. Honestly, this is going to hurt rich Paul more than help. Teams are going to be else inclined to deal with him. To take it a step further, Paul used lebron to get where he is. Without the chance meeting, rich Paul would still be selling jerseys out of the trunk of his car.

I think it's funny that lebron is trying to brag about this whole thing. Funny thing is sarver said all summer he would like to sit down and negotiate but "klutz sports," I mean klutch sports were very unprofessional. If anything, I wouldn't be bragging about this, I would be kinda embarrassed. The only one/s that handled this whole thing correctly/professional came ironically from the person, who has been perceived as greedy, and that's sarver. And of course Ryan Mcd and babby.

On a side note, the cute little k, lebron and his crew added to the word clutch, is stupid. But im sure they think it cool as hell.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[JDLAW]

It has already started - the insane Goran Dragic trades:


Post#1 Ily and Dragic to Rox
Today 2:58 pm by Xman
Houston goes all in to round out its roster.
Houston has a star center and shooting guard. Ariza at SF seems like a solid fit and decent starter - not great by any means. Beverly at PG is a little weak but not devastating. PF has not been good and the best PF (TJones) does not well in the system.

Milwaukee has been rumored as willing to give up a couple of 2nds if someone will take Ily and his contract. Ily is a negative value player but would fit fairly well in Houston.
Dragic has just had his best season but may be the odd man out in PHX if they want to get what they van before he its the market (how much $$ is PHX willing to spend at pg?).

If PHX decided it was not going to pay Dragic and wanted to get value now, I think the best offers would come from Dallas and Detroit. Most other teams either have point guards, no trade bait or no interest.
If Detroit is willing to over Monroe and a first, then that is probably the best deal available. A bad contract and a couple of first would not match what Rox would offer. Same goes for Dallas - 2 first, JNelson and Wright is not as much as possible Rox offer.

Rox - send Canaan, TE, 2017 1st, NO 1st in 2015, 2 2nds in 2015
- get Dragic, Ily
Milw - sends Ily, 2 2nd rounders in 2015
- gets JTerry, Canaan
PHX - sends Dragic
- gets TE, four 2nds in 2015, NO 1st in 2015, Hou 1st in 2017

If PHX really wanted Capela or some other Rox player, they could be added in fairly easily.

Milwaukee: dumps a bad contract fairly cheaply.
Hou: adds a couple of players for its tradeable assets. Ily is overpaid but should fit well. Dragic would really round out the offense - but would require a serious overpay in the offseason.
PHX: This would leave PHX with up to 4 firsts next year and five seconds - that gives you some control over the draft. Take into account that Boston is also hording picks and the picks have even more value.

This deal would leave Houston with:
pg: Dragic, Beverly, Ish Smith
sg: Harden, TDaniels
sf: Ariza, FGarcia, Papanikolaou, Covington
pf: Ily, TJones, JAdrien, Motie, JPowell, TBlack
c: Howard, JDorsey, Capela

PHX could also ask for and get Beverly, Papanikolaou, TJones, Motie and Capela since they are all young with potential. That would be the limit of Rox trade assets.

That would be an expensive starting 5: 7.5, 14.7, 8.6, 7.9, 21.4 = 60.4 this year. figure about 10 more next year just because of dragic and contract increases. Luxury tax time.

I know a lot of people will say Dragic will not be dealt - and they are probably right - I am think 60-70% odds he stays. BUT, if PHX is not willing to pay him max then they should get value for him now.
Xman
Rookie
Posts: 1,142
And1: 20
Joined: Jun 9, 2005

If you're pulling these trade thoughts from "Clutchfans" forum 75% of the contributers there are completely delusional. Facts or any care of NBA realities are simply ignored so they can continue mentally masterbating.

Realgm trade board.

[JDLAW]

Law, my friend, you have to know that's horrible for the suns. First off, dragic should be the last player on anyone's mind to trade. I would venture to say dragic is nearly untouchable. Second, any trade where dragic is involved has to result in the suns receiving an All-star player.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I did not put this out there - it comes from the trade board. My comments were about the same as Carey's. It is awful.

Oh I got ya. I knew you were smarter than that. I was scratching my head with that.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Thanks Deuce. My point in posting this was to call attention to the rumbling under the surface that a number of teams think the Suns cannot retain Dragic and they are going to swoop in with their garbage and steal him.

[JDLAW]

This just came over my twitter.

@colezwicker: Cavs will have around $15M in non-guaranteed contracts next summer between Bogans and Haywood. Have picks & young pieces for star offer

Beyond their obvious stars, the only "asset" players would be waiters. Don't see where this guy thinks the cavs can get a "star" without losing one of their stars.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

whoever tweeted this out knows nothing. The Cavs will be tightly bound by their salaries - Love, Irving and Lebron will almost $57M by themselves. Thompson will have a $12M cap hold. Waiters is $4M more. You can of the arithmetic - If the cap is $66M they have little chance to add anything.

[carey]

Whoever tweeted this out knows nothing. The Cavs will be tightly bound by their salaries - Love, Irving and Lebron will almost $57M by themselves. Thompson will have a $12M cap hold. Waiters is $4M more. You can of the arithmetic - If the cap is $66M they have little chance to add anything.

Well, I assume the OP meant they'd trade those expiring contracts with one or two of their "assets" (and I use the term loosely since outside the big 3 the cupboard is mostly bare.) It's weird that they would even be concerned with adding another star already. Kyrie-Love-LeBron is a pretty fierce trio and it's not like Varejao is chopped liver. I think any team in the league would kill for that trio and a solid big man at the 5-spot. Greedy fans gonna greed though.

[lilfishi22]

Just sounds like some guy trying to pass for a knowledgeable NBA/Cavs commentator.

[DirtyDez]

Suns are going wing-heavy like the Spurs and could have some crazy depth. We still need that borderline-elite big man though to be true contenders. I think Markieff's efficiency will drop due to his minutes increasing and no other bigs can score consistently. Len needs to take a significant leap this year because Plumlee is close to his ceiling. Nothing against him he's still a lot better then we thought when the Scola trade happened.

With the financial commitment they made with Bledsoe and likely Dragic/Morri first-round exits should not be acceptable.

ia gree with this entire post except maybe the last part, at least for next year. if the Suns can make the POs next year i'll be very happy with their performance, even if they lose first round. it's gonna be another rough year in the western conference.

Yeah next year's expectations should be playoffs but longterm needs to be finals contenders...

Bledsoe/Dragic/IT will be locked up together for 3-4 years. It will be expensive but I think they'll explore the trade-up route again. This past draft both picks were in the teens but that won't be the case with LA's struggles.

One of Ennis/Goodwin plus Lakers & Suns pick is an enticing packaging for some team to trade down. Still plenty of ways to improve the team thru trade.

[JTrain]

Hate to be negative, but is it not telling that none of the players (that I've seen) have acknowledged Bledsoe's signing? Usually the one's that are active on social media are quick to congratulate things like this.

Mook tweeted this today, and Goran retweeted:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MookMorris2/status/515196394286489600[/tweet]

Yet nothing about Bledsoe.

EDIT: Archie retweeted Bledsoe. So that's something.

[jredsaz]

Portland 2nd?

I'd have to bet something more like

1. OKC (missed westbrook for awhile last year and still nearly had best record)
2. SA
3. MEM
4. LAC
5. DAL
6. PHX
7. POR
8. GS

Houston barely misses, and New Orleans fairly close.

Both of you really think Houston isn't going to make the playoff's? I know they lost Chandler Parsons, but like them or not, Howard and Harden are some of the best at their positions. I do agree that the Pelicans are a wild card, and I think they might get that last spot with them pairing Asik with Davis. I see the Suns and Dallas as the ones on the outside looking in, I hope I am wrong, but the West is just so stacked. Dragic, Green, and Markieff should all be looking to up their games to get paid, but I am not sure how team chemistry will play out with so many guards and I am still not convinced we didn't highly overachieve to get those 48 wins last year. My guess is something like this:

1. OKC
2. SA
3. LAC
4. HOUS
5. MEM
6. POR
7. GS
8. NO or possibly DAL or PHX

I think you're right about Houston on second thought but I'm not sold on them going past 5th seed tops. I love harden but he's over rated. Portland I see making the biggest leap this year.

Not sure if this has been pointed out but the NBA is the most predictable US professional sport when it comes to regular season standings and a playoff berth.

The following represents the difference between the top 8 teams in the WC at the date of 12/25 and the aggregate difference between those teams and the teams that made the playoffs in each corresponding season (Team that missed playoffs, seed at 12/25, major reason that I can remember). The strike shortened 2011-2012 season is excluded.

12/25/13 v WC Playoff Standings
-1 (Suns, 6 seed, Bledsoe Injury)
12/25/12 v WC Playoff Standings
-1 (TWolves, 7 seed, Love Injury)
12/25/10 v WC Playoff Standings
-1 (Jazz, 4 seed)
12/25/09 v WC Playoff Standings
-1 (Rockets, 6 seed)
12/25/08 v WC Playoff Standings
-1 (Suns, 8 seed)

Odds are that if the Bledsoe injury does not happen we finish in the top 8 of the WC in 2013-2014 and make the playoffs. In that vein, as I believe the Suns are improved, the Suns will compete for a playoff seed with the second level of WC teams (GS, HOU, DAL, MEM, POR) next year. Should be fun.

[AtheJ415]

Now that things have worked out just fine, LeBron took to Instagram to congratulate both Bledsoe and Paul, while taking a shot at the critics at the same time.

“Congrats to my brother @ebled2!! Family stand for each other through the good and bad! I guess we still don’t know what we doing yet huh Rich!?! #StriveForGreatness #Klutch #RWTW”

When the Suns and Bledsoe still weren’t talking, James encouraged Phoenix to “break bread” in a similar Instagram post.

It’s clear that James has more than just a rooting interest where his agent is concerned, and while there may not be a formal financial stake for him in place, the level of influence wielded by the game’s best player will only help Paul continue to land clients.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

Lol. What exactly did rich Paul do that is so special other than ignore the suns all summer? My 12 year old son could do easily be an agent and just tell Bledsoe to hold out and don't talk to anyone until they give you, what you want. Honestly, this is going to hurt rich Paul more than help. Teams are going to be else inclined to deal with him. To take it a step further, Paul used lebron to get where he is. Without the chance meeting, rich Paul would still be selling jerseys out of the trunk of his car.

I think it's funny that lebron is trying to brag about this whole thing. Funny thing is sarver said all summer he would like to sit down and negotiate but "klutz sports," I mean klutch sports were very unprofessional. If anything, I wouldn't be bragging about this, I would be kinda embarrassed. The only one/s that handled this whole thing correctly/professional came ironically from the person, who has been perceived as greedy, and that's sarver. And of course Ryan Mcd and babby.

On a side note, the cute little k, lebron and his crew added to the word clutch, is stupid. But im sure they think it cool as hell.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Rich Paul demanded a max, got a near max offer that he rejected, and then accepted $10 mil less than that on a longer deal that prevents him from re-upping under the higher cap sooner. All in an offseason where Parsons and Hayward got maxes. Dude failed. Sure, he could've done worse, but let's not pretend he's all that. In this market players get overrated deals, and Bledsoe's is less overpaid than the others.

[Kerrsed]

Imagine if Phoenix drafts the Harrison twins and trade Plumlee and both Lopezs.

Dragic/Harrison
Dragic/Harrison
Morris/Plumlee
Morris/Plumlee
Lopez/Lopez

Bring a new dimension to the court. Confusing opponents with similar looking players.

[jredsaz]

Suns are going wing-heavy like the Spurs and could have some crazy depth. We still need that borderline-elite big man though to be true contenders. I think Markieff's efficiency will drop due to his minutes increasing and no other bigs can score consistently. Len needs to take a significant leap this year because Plumlee is close to his ceiling. Nothing against him he's still a lot better then we thought when the Scola trade happened.

With the financial commitment they made with Bledsoe and likely Dragic/Morri first-round exits should not be acceptable.

ia gree with this entire post except maybe the last part, at least for next year. if the Suns can make the POs next year i'll be very happy with their performance, even if they lose first round. it's gonna be another rough year in the western conference.

Yeah next year's expectations should be playoffs but longterm needs to be finals contenders...

Bledsoe/Dragic/IT will be locked up together for 3-4 years. It will be expensive but I think they'll explore the trade-up route again. This past draft both picks were in the teens but that won't be the case with LA's struggles.

One of Ennis/Goodwin plus Lakers & Suns pick is an enticing packaging for some team to trade down. Still plenty of ways to improve the team thru trade.

Trades will be tricky for the Suns in 2014-2015. Outside of Bledsoe (essentially untradable due to the contractual conditions of the CBA) and Dragic (a player they are not willing to part with) there are no singular-sizable-Okafore-style contracts to exchange for an all-star level salary.

If we really want to make a trade for a $10 million plus contract Thomas (7.3), Tucker ($5.7), Len ($3.65), Green ($3.5), and Tolliver ($3.0) are the Suns only avenue for the required salary exchange. When considering that Thomas and Tucker are considered important pieces and cannot be traded until 12/15/14 as is the situation with Tolliver, the Suns are limited in their trade opportunities.

Further limiting the Suns trade opportunities is the league's limitation of roster spots. It is hard to facilitate a transaction when the Suns must trade multiple players in exchange for a singular large contract while not taking back ancillary players and contracts.

[DirtyDez]

I was talking about trading up in the draft. I think that Laker pick will make it more realistic. In the brutal west that pick will be top-10.

[Blackification]

Hate to be negative, but is it not telling that none of the players (that I've seen) have acknowledged Bledsoe's signing? Usually the one's that are active on social media are quick to congratulate things like this.

Mook tweeted this today, and Goran retweeted:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MookMorris2/status/515196394286489600[/tweet]

Yet nothing about Bledsoe.

EDIT: Archie retweeted Bledsoe. So that's something.

I saw that and it kind of made me laugh, but I didn't read too much into it. Who knows the morris twins were pretty cool with bledsoe last season they could have easily texted or called.

Twitter congrats always seemed like a show between friends like that. Obviously Lebron is advertising his clutch sports bull i'm sure he called and congratulated bledsoe its just for show I feel.