Rajon Rondo breaks hand, has surgery, out indefinitely

[NL41]

if the Cs just brainlessly repeated what Rondo told them, or suspected it was a cover story but went with it anyway, then damn they are amateurs. You don't knowingly repeat a lie or repeat something you don't think is true.

Of course you do, and you also tell people that the story is only what you were told, not what you actually believe. Unless they had proof that Rondo was lying, they should have just gone by what Rondo told them, even if they didn't 100% believe it. And you just add that "this is what Rondo told us".

That's honest and good PR. This story is about Rondo, not the Celtics, even if big Rondo fans want to point the finger at them instead of Rondo.

[ryaningf]

http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/9/26/68 ... as-surgery

Celtics hands are clean. This wasn't their lie about the shower.
It's not even a PR issue, except for Brand Rondo. Celtics handled this exactly as they should have.

Yes, Jeff Goodman, the paradigm of objectivity when it comes to Rajon Rondo, would be the one to get that scoop, wouldn't he? The same guy who just this week had his reporting called "garbage" by Danny Ainge himself.

The Celtics throwing Rondo under the bus helps them how?

This isn't about keeping one's hands clean. There's nothing criminal about having an accident on a trampoline. It's about business and perception and protecting a player and an asset. They're under no obligation to report injuries as they happen. They are under an obligation to protect their players and their assets. Sometimes that includes protecting them from themselves or from unfair public perception.

Your just way off on this. Why would you create a cover up when one is pointless and not necessary? He had surgery today that is going to get out. If you say nothing for 3 days then nobody is going to believe what you have to say on Monday.

You give an explanation and they did it should then be a non story unless you told a really bad lie.

I didn't say anything about a better coverup, or waiting til Monday to cover it up. I'm saying frame the story better so you don't invite speculation that you are covering something up. Say the truth, but do it in a way that makes people BELIEVE YOU.

It's all about framing the goddamned story the right way. It's about perception. I'm in favor of the truth but more importantly I'm in favor of creating the perception of truth. If you release a weird somewhat improbable shower fall story on a Friday and then say "we'll talk about it more on Monday" all you do is invite speculation. If it is a coverup, it's a bad one. If it's the truth, it sure doesn't sound like it. Like I said earlier, what's the upside to releasing it now. Either you just released a bad coverup or something that doesn't seem true. At least do it on Media Day to lessen the impact.

You think this surgery would get out? Guys have secret surgery over the summer all the time and it doesn't get out for months or even years later.

[ryaningf]

if the Cs just brainlessly repeated what Rondo told them, or suspected it was a cover story but went with it anyway, then damn they are amateurs. You don't knowingly repeat a lie or repeat something you don't think is true.

Of course you do, and you also tell people that the story is only what you were told, not what you actually believe. Unless they had proof that Rondo was lying, they should have just gone by what Rondo told them, even if they didn't 100% believe it. And you just add that "this is what Rondo told us".

That's honest and good PR. This story is about Rondo, not the Celtics, even if big Rondo fans want to point the finger at them instead of Rondo.

Of course YOU DON'T.

When you're on a team, you protect your teammates, from both the outside world and unfair perception and sometimes from themselves. To have you tell it, you're the kind of teammate who'll hand his drunk teammate his keys and then pull out his phone, film him driving away drunk, and then post it to Twitter.

[NL41]

Ryan, you want this to be about the Celtics and not about Rondo, so you convince yourself that it will still be very bad for the Celtics even if they were honest and straightforward the whole time, and just reporting what Rondo told them.

You say you support the truth but that you support molding an artificial perception of truth more. That just shows that you don't value truth, or at least where Rondo is concerned.

Man, two days ago people were screaming about how Wyc talking about Rondo being uncoachable was NOT even worth a thread. And now Rondo seems to have screwed up in a big way, and people are totally focused on the Celtics and convincing themselves this is somehow on them, and even if they are telling the truth the Celtics still somehow screwed up because a few people (Rondo fans) won't believe their true story on Monday.

[SMTBSI]

This story is about Rondo, not the Celtics, even if big Rondo fans want to point the finger at them instead of Rondo.

This is both a subtle strawman and a subtle ad hominem.

A strawman because, while you're pointing the finger at Rondo, most everyone else is saying that it's probably impossible to point a finger, rather than, as you suggest, pointing the finger exclusively at the FO.

An ad hominem because you're implying that those who disagree with you came to do so because of a personal, emotional characteristic - Rondo fanhood - instead of via their rational faculties.

[NL41]

if the Cs just brainlessly repeated what Rondo told them, or suspected it was a cover story but went with it anyway, then damn they are amateurs. You don't knowingly repeat a lie or repeat something you don't think is true.

Of course you do, and you also tell people that the story is only what you were told, not what you actually believe. Unless they had proof that Rondo was lying, they should have just gone by what Rondo told them, even if they didn't 100% believe it. And you just add that "this is what Rondo told us".

That's honest and good PR. This story is about Rondo, not the Celtics, even if big Rondo fans want to point the finger at them instead of Rondo.

Of course YOU DON'T.

When you're on a team, you protect your teammates, from both the outside world and unfair perception and sometimes from themselves. To have you tell it, you're the kind of teammate who'll hand his drunk teammate his keys and then pull out his phone, film him driving away drunk, and then post it to Twitter.

Tell that to the Baltimore Ravens and the NFL front office. I'm sure they think that's brilliant advice right about now. Cover up, control the narrative, deceive, and generally act in a sketchy and distrustful way.

How is that working out for the Ravens?

[ballup]

If he truly did break his hand on a trampoline, don't know why they didn't tell the truth unless they want to protect his trampoline interest.

[NL41]

This story is about Rondo, not the Celtics, even if big Rondo fans want to point the finger at them instead of Rondo.

This is both a subtle strawman and a subtle ad hominem.

A strawman because, while you're pointing the finger at Rondo, most everyone else is saying that it's probably impossible to point a finger, rather than, as you suggest, pointing the finger exclusively at the FO.

An ad hominem because you're implying that those who disagree with you came to do so because of a personal, emotional characteristic - Rondo fanhood - instead of via their rational faculties.

So far it seems to only be Ryan here who thinks the Celtics screwed up somehow.

[NL41]

If he truly did break his hand on a trampoline, don't know why they didn't tell the truth unless they want to protect his trampoline interest.

Because they had only Rondo's word to go by. Just because the Celtics reported what Rondo told them, doesn't mean they will be blamed if Rondo lied to them.
Except a few Rondo worshippers, perhaps, who would have suggested the Celtics took a Baltimore Ravens type coverup to protect Rondo's image no matter the risk to the Celtics' credibility.

[NL41]

if the Cs just brainlessly repeated what Rondo told them, or suspected it was a cover story but went with it anyway, then damn they are amateurs. You don't knowingly repeat a lie or repeat something you don't think is true.

Of course you do, and you also tell people that the story is only what you were told, not what you actually believe. Unless they had proof that Rondo was lying, they should have just gone by what Rondo told them, even if they didn't 100% believe it. And you just add that "this is what Rondo told us".

That's honest and good PR. This story is about Rondo, not the Celtics, even if big Rondo fans want to point the finger at them instead of Rondo.

Of course YOU DON'T.

When you're on a team, you protect your teammates, from both the outside world and unfair perception and sometimes from themselves. To have you tell it, you're the kind of teammate who'll hand his drunk teammate his keys and then pull out his phone, film him driving away drunk, and then post it to Twitter.

Did you not learn anything from the Ray Rice debacle? Even from a PR perspective?

[ryaningf]

Ryan, you want this to be about the Celtics and not about Rondo, so you convince yourself that it will still be very bad for the Celtics even if they were honest and straightforward the whole time, and just reporting what Rondo told them.

You say you support the truth but that you support molding an artificial perception of truth more. That just shows that you don't value truth, or at least where Rondo is concerned.

Man, two days ago people were screaming about how Wyc talking about Rondo being uncoachable was NOT even worth a thread. And now Rondo seems to have screwed up in a big way, and people are totally focused on the Celtics and convincing themselves this is somehow on them, and even if they are telling the truth the Celtics still somehow screwed up because a few people (Rondo fans) won't believe their true story on Monday.

I'll keep this simple: if in fact Rondo was embarrassed about how he injured his hand and fibbed a little on where he 'fell' that's a minor lie that should be kept in house not broadcast to the world. Not saying you don't deal with him internally, or dress him down in front of the team, or even decide that it's best to move on from him, but broadcasting it to the world doesn't do anyone any good.

Are you suggesting that when Rondo threw the water bottle and damaged a TV that the Cs should have put out a press release about their broken TV in the name of truth and straightforwardness? Are the Cs a goddamned news organization or a basketball organization? In my mind, getting Ws is more important that self-reporting every little thing that happens behind closed doors. You keep it in house, you protect the team at all costs.

[SMTBSI]

Tell that to the Baltimore Ravens and the NFL front office. I'm sure they think that's brilliant advice right about now. Cover up, control the narrative, deceive, and generally act in a sketchy and distrustful way.

How is that working out for the Ravens?

And this is a false dilemma fallacy (non-exhaustive categories).

In terms of PR decisions, there are a million shades between the Ray Rice situation, and, for example, Belichick's silly little bits of gamesmanship listing Brady as "probable" every single game for years. You're trying to cast it as all or nothing - the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth at all times, or else you're in bed with Rice.

That's not even remotely how the world works.

[ballup]

Abby Nose points out a possible support for the shower claim from an old interview (3rd quote)
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2013/02/28/more-weird-stuff-about-rajon-rondo/

[ryaningf]

Of course you do, and you also tell people that the story is only what you were told, not what you actually believe. Unless they had proof that Rondo was lying, they should have just gone by what Rondo told them, even if they didn't 100% believe it. And you just add that "this is what Rondo told us".

That's honest and good PR. This story is about Rondo, not the Celtics, even if big Rondo fans want to point the finger at them instead of Rondo.

Of course YOU DON'T.

When you're on a team, you protect your teammates, from both the outside world and unfair perception and sometimes from themselves. To have you tell it, you're the kind of teammate who'll hand his drunk teammate his keys and then pull out his phone, film him driving away drunk, and then post it to Twitter.

Did you not learn anything from the Ray Rice debacle? Even from a PR perspective?

Have you been reading what I've been writing?

I'm not saying damn the Cs didn't cover this up enough, I'm saying damn the story they put out just invites lots of speculation that someone is trying to cover up how this injury occurred. What I'm saying is that isn't there a better way to announce an injury and do it in a way that doesn't invite speculation that you're covering something up?

The Ravens effed up because they tried to cover something up that was criminal and they hired lawyers and convinced the NFL to help them and all the while there was a video in evidence. I'm not saying cover anything up, just frame it better. Either announce at Media Day that Rondo broke his hand in a fall in the shower and then have Rondo face the media and describe what happened (if that's what happened)....or say Rondo had an accident on a trampoline (if that's what happened). Rondo's explanation is so dubious that it has to come from him or it won't be believed. The Cs should have known this.

[NL41]

Refusing to answer how Rondo broke his hand would be a much bigger story and would damage the Celtics' credibility.

"Gee, why is Rondo wearing that cast and not practicing?"

"We have no comment."

Gee, that doesn't look suspicious at all.

And if Rondo hurt himself screwing off, the Celtics might be off the hook financially for the time that he misses.

Rondo let down the Celtics here, one way or another. Expecting the team to juggle lies or draw more attention to the story by making it a huge mystery wouldn't help the Celtics or, less importantly, Rondo.

When your only tool is a Public Relations for Beginners book, everything looks like it needs slick lies and misdirection.

[sully00]

Yes, Jeff Goodman, the paradigm of objectivity when it comes to Rajon Rondo, would be the one to get that scoop, wouldn't he? The same guy who just this week had his reporting called "garbage" by Danny Ainge himself.

The Celtics throwing Rondo under the bus helps them how?

This isn't about keeping one's hands clean. There's nothing criminal about having an accident on a trampoline. It's about business and perception and protecting a player and an asset. They're under no obligation to report injuries as they happen. They are under an obligation to protect their players and their assets. Sometimes that includes protecting them from themselves or from unfair public perception.

Your just way off on this. Why would you create a cover up when one is pointless and not necessary? He had surgery today that is going to get out. If you say nothing for 3 days then nobody is going to believe what you have to say on Monday.

You give an explanation and they did it should then be a non story unless you told a really bad lie.

I didn't say anything about a better coverup, or waiting til Monday to cover it up. I'm saying frame the story better so you don't invite speculation that you are covering something up. Say the truth, but do it in a way that makes people BELIEVE YOU.

It's all about framing the goddamned story the right way. It's about perception. I'm in favor of the truth but more importantly I'm in favor of creating the perception of truth. If you release a weird somewhat improbable shower fall story on a Friday and then say "we'll talk about it more on Monday" all you do is invite speculation. If it is a coverup, it's a bad one. If it's the truth, it sure doesn't sound like it. Like I said earlier, what's the upside to releasing it now. Either you just released a bad coverup or something that doesn't seem true. At least do it on Media Day to lessen the impact.

You think this surgery would get out? Guys have secret surgery over the summer all the time and it doesn't get out for months or even years later.

I guess but they leave the country and not have it done in a hospital.

I just think your coming at this the wrong way. The story is being reported as Rondo or the team told it. This was Rondo's story. He might have a motivation to lie because he violated his contract. That has nothing to do with the team. They have no reason to participate in a cover up or "shaping of the truth" because it really isn't their problem. Their issues are basketball related and this clearly is not basketball related. I think the team is simply relaying the explanation they were given by the player.

[SMTBSI]

So far it seems to only be Ryan here who thinks the Celtics screwed up somehow.

This is another strawman. Ryaningf is saying that the FO wouldn't be in the wrong for playing an active hand in managing the PR from this event. I, and I think many others here (though obviously not Sully!), agree with him. It is worth pointing out that there are two separate discussions going on simultaneously here:

1.) What actually happened? Is falling-in-the-shower remotely plausible, compared to trampoline park?
2.) Independently of 1, is it reasonable to think that the Celtics would be complicit with Rondo in crafting a PR strategy?


NL41 - you are the one who has been staking the boldest position re: question 2: that they clearly have done no such thing. Therefore, it seems to me that the burden of proof would rest with you. But you've stayed on the offensive well enough that you haven't had to shoulder that burden.

[NL41]

Of course YOU DON'T.

When you're on a team, you protect your teammates, from both the outside world and unfair perception and sometimes from themselves. To have you tell it, you're the kind of teammate who'll hand his drunk teammate his keys and then pull out his phone, film him driving away drunk, and then post it to Twitter.

Did you not learn anything from the Ray Rice debacle? Even from a PR perspective?

Have you been reading what I've been writing?

I'm not saying damn the Cs didn't cover this up enough, I'm saying damn the story they put out just invites lots of speculation that someone is trying to cover up how this injury occurred. What I'm saying is that isn't there a better way to announce an injury and do it in a way that doesn't invite speculation that you're covering something up?

The Ravens effed up because they tried to cover something up that was criminal and they hired lawyers and convinced the NFL to help them and all the while there was a video in evidence. I'm not saying cover anything up, just frame it better. Either announce at Media Day that Rondo broke his hand in a fall in the shower and then have Rondo face the media and describe what happened (if that's what happened)....or say Rondo had an accident on a trampoline (if that's what happened). Rondo's explanation is so dubious that it has to come from him or it won't be believed. The Cs should have known this.

I'm going to stop debating this with you.

[ryaningf]

Of course you do, and you also tell people that the story is only what you were told, not what you actually believe. Unless they had proof that Rondo was lying, they should have just gone by what Rondo told them, even if they didn't 100% believe it. And you just add that "this is what Rondo told us".

That's honest and good PR. This story is about Rondo, not the Celtics, even if big Rondo fans want to point the finger at them instead of Rondo.

Of course YOU DON'T.

When you're on a team, you protect your teammates, from both the outside world and unfair perception and sometimes from themselves. To have you tell it, you're the kind of teammate who'll hand his drunk teammate his keys and then pull out his phone, film him driving away drunk, and then post it to Twitter.

Tell that to the Baltimore Ravens and the NFL front office. I'm sure they think that's brilliant advice right about now. Cover up, control the narrative, deceive, and generally act in a sketchy and distrustful way.

How is that working out for the Ravens?

FWIW, what the Ravens should have done is said, Ray, there's a video of you punching out your wife. We're going to release you and let the courts decide what they will. Best of luck with that. We can't have you on this team with that kind of video in existence, we can literally not unsee that.

What I'm saying the Cs should have done is this: Rondo, is this really what happened? It sounds fishy. You can tell us the truth. At this point, 1 of 2 things happen:

***Oh, you fell off a trampoline. That's so you. Okay, we'll spin this as just another part of your weirdness but if we see you rollerskating or trampolining or doing anything else reckless we're going to discipline you. This isn't cool but we understand accidents happen. Now get healthy and we expect you at every practice doing what you can with one hand.

***Or, you really fell in the shower? Um, OK. You realize that this is like a pretty implausible story right? OK. Well, we're not going to announce your surgery yet or why you got hurt because to most people it'll sound like a lie. It's best coming from you. Just show up at Media Day with your cast, tell the media what happened, and we'll support you 100%.

[NL41]

So far it seems to only be Ryan here who thinks the Celtics screwed up somehow.

This is another strawman. Ryaningf is saying that the FO wouldn't be in the wrong for playing an active hand in managing the PR from this event. I, and I think many others here (though obviously not Sully!), agree with him. It is worth pointing out that there are two separate discussions going on simultaneously here:

1.) What actually happened? Is falling-in-the-shower remotely plausible, compared to trampoline park?
2.) Independently of 1, is it reasonable to think that the Celtics would be complicit with Rondo in crafting a PR strategy?


NL41 - you are the one who has been staking the boldest position re: question 2: that they clearly have done no such thing. Therefore, it seems to me that the burden of proof would rest with you. But you've stayed on the offensive well enough that you haven't had to shoulder that burden.

Straw man my ass. Ryan thinks they screwed up by not sitting on the story until Monday, as if doing so wouldn't cause more idle speculation than what they did, which was to be prompt in reporting what they know and what Rondo told them.

The Celtics, not knowing for sure what happened but knowing their star player was out for two months, reported what they did know and what Rondo told them promptly.

Rondo just f@cked the Celtics over by selfishly being careless in the shower or trampolining recklessly, 4 freaking days before training camp.

And you guys are more concerned about how the Celtics should have better served Rondo from a PR perspective. And if it turns out that Rondo did indeed lie to the Celtics, you'll probably focus more on the Celtics than on Rondo lying to the team ON TOP of selfishly injuring himself an the eve of training camp.