How Keith Bogans changes Cleveland (Potential Trade One)

[Domejandro]

Hey Cleveland fans, Alejandro here. I just wanted to give some insight on the obvious Keith Bogans situation.
(Format from blog is slightly messed up due to the RealGM posting system.)

How Keith Bogans changes Cleveland (Potential Trade One)


It was announced by ESPN today that the Boston Celtics traded Keith Bogans for the unguaranteed contracts of John Lucas III, Erik Murphy, and Malcolm Thomas, while obtaining Dwight Powell and two future second round picks. Though initially looking like a steal for Boston, Keith Bogans currently has a contract structure that can make the Ohio Super-Team even more super.


As of this year, Bogans is on an unguaranteed 5.3 million dollar contract, but Cleveland will likely decide to keep his salary until the next season when he is unguaranteed at 5.5 million. Why would they do that? They do this to pair him with Brendan Haywood's contract to make a 15.8 million non guaranteed trade asset for them to use in the 2015-16 off season. If not currently aware, the Cleveland Cavaliers have the rights to Brendan Haywood this season at two million dollars, but his contract quickly balloons to an unguaranteed 10.3 million dollars! That, paired with Bogans' 5.5 million dollars creates an unimaginable asset for the Cavaliers.

Because of this asset, it has to be looked as to how these contracts can bring in future players. It is a well-known weakness of the Cavaliers that their Center position is currently weak, and terribly undersized. This is an issue as a good defender is needed to make up for the defensive incompetence of All-Stars Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love. Because of this, it can be assumed that the Cavaliers will be trying to use their resources to gain an elite, defensive center.


Marc Gasol hoists his Defensive Player of the Year trophy.

So who? This is where things become difficult, but quite predictable. It can be easily assumed that the first target of the Cleveland Cavaliers will be Spanish Center Marc Gasol from the Memphis Grizzlies. Marc Gasol, one year removed from being the Defensive Player of the Year, is known not only for his defense, but his knockdown mid range jump shot, and his elite passing abilities that put him on par with the best passing big men in the league. In addition, he is set to be a free agent after next season. To successfully pull off this deal, it would have to be a sign and trade from the Grizzies due to the Cavaliers having little to no cap space next season. Because of this, you could see trade negotiations starting at...

Brendan Haywood, Keith Bogans, Dion Waiters, Joe Harris, and the 2015 Protected Memphis pick returned for Marc Gasol.

That said, there is a multitude of issues with a trade in this fashion.


1) Is Marc Gasol interested in taking a slightly smaller max to join the Cleveland Cavaliers?
2) These assets are clearly not enough, and Cleveland would have to find a third team to add additional assets to Memphis (Potentially solved by sign and trading Tristan Thompson before hand).
3) Other teams will be in the market for Marc's services.
4) Will Memphis ever consider trading their star to help another team?

All those issues aside, if Memphis and Cleveland can work out their differences, and get this deal completed, Cleveland could be argued as the greatest super team of all time, causing an uproar as to the balance of the CBA. It would be disastrous for the Nation Basketball Association, but in the end, Cleveland would get their long awaited titles with LeBron.

[King Stannis]

Cavs already have too many big contracts.

They don't need a player of Gasol's caliber to remedy their deficiencies.

Now, had they not traded for Love, this would be a great idea.

[ThirdEyeSharp]

There's no way we could keep a team of LeBron, Kyrie, Love and Gasol. As much as I'd love to have a ridiculous super team like that lol.

We can target different guys. I'd love to have someone like Kosta Koufous or Mozgov honestly.

[TheOUTLAW]

I'm skeptical that Gasol is even a good fit for the Cavs. He is definitely not a rim protector.

[Ecmic]

It's my understanding that the Cavs can't do a sign and trade if the trade puts them more than $4 million over the tax line. The tax line is at $77 million this year. What it'll be next year, I don't know. It'd be tight, though, and would probably require the Cavs to dump Waiters and Thompson. That's a pretty steep price to pay.

[RSCD3_]

I'm skeptical that Gasol is even a good fit for the Cavs. He is definitely not a rim protector.

He's 7'1 and plays smart basketball, I mean there was a reason he won DPOY and it wasn't because he was a tremendous pick and roll defense who could guards wings like Davis can.

And yes Conley and Allen are very good defenders for position but through a lot of data I have seen

Rim protection >>> Perimeter help or man defense

That's why the top 10 most impactful defenders are all centers and than a little farther down the list you have your Pippen's, Jordan's and James's



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[IMAN5]

Mozgov seems like a more realistic pickm he would be nice as well.

[ThirdEyeSharp]

Yeah I'm on the boat of keeping Waiters until he's a RFA. Then seeing where Joe Harris is (I honestly think this kid was the biggest steal of the draft, for a rookie his basketball IQ is ridiculously high and he does everything well, just not at an elite level)

There is no reason to load up on big contracts, just to see the team fall apart in the coming years due to finances.

[crazy_me_87]

We dont even need a Gasol Caliber Center

Mozgov,Kyle Oquinn, and similar caliber Centers would be great and we'd still have some flexibility left

[CAVS ARE BACK]

Flexibility is never a bad thing if the owner doesn't mind paying the bill.

[rjgraca]

I am not sure why everyone is getting excited on making deals that we over pay which has been the case in every trade this off season. Every team is expecting the Cavs to over pay and the Cavs are quickly burning through there trade assets. IMO, no team with a star like Gasol is going to do a sign and trade for mid to low draft picks and expiring. a more realistic view are the ones talking about good rotation players like Mosgov and Sanders.

[LordBaldric]

Kevin Love is NOT incompetent at defense. Not unless you only consider help defense and rim protection and not positional defense and defensive rebounding. Kevin mailed it in after the playoffs were out of reach in Minnesota, but that will not be the case in Cleveland, and in any event LeBron will be on his ass to keep him motivated on that end. I'd be way more concerned about Kyrie if I were you guys.

[Domejandro]

Kevin Love is NOT incompetent at defense. Not unless you only consider help defense and rim protection and not positional defense and defensive rebounding. Kevin mailed it in after the playoffs were out of reach in Minnesota, but that will not be the case in Cleveland, and in any event LeBron will be on his ass to keep him motivated on that end. I'd be way more concerned about Kyrie if I were you guys.

I am a Timberwolves fan making a quick write up for the Cavs. As I said, both Irving and Love are incompetent at that end. His is an incredible rebounder, and is just about an average post defender. His other positional defense is terrible. He is no stat stuffer by any means, but there is a price to his rebounds. He really is bad at defense.

That all said, his is the most complete, offensive threat in the NBA, so he definitely does not suck.

[LordBaldric]

Kevin Love is NOT incompetent at defense. Not unless you only consider help defense and rim protection and not positional defense and defensive rebounding. Kevin mailed it in after the playoffs were out of reach in Minnesota, but that will not be the case in Cleveland, and in any event LeBron will be on his ass to keep him motivated on that end. I'd be way more concerned about Kyrie if I were you guys.

I am a Timberwolves fan making a quick write up for the Cavs. As I said, both Irving and Love are incompetent at that end. His is an incredible rebounder, and is just about an average post defender. His other positional defense is terrible. He is no stat stuffer by any means, but there is a price to his rebounds. He really is bad at defense.

That all said, his is the most complete, offensive threat in the NBA, so he definitely does not suck.

I think if you watch the Wolves this coming season, you will be in for a sharp lesson on how important rebounding is for defense.

The advanced stats all show that Love is a positive on defense.

[johnnyballgame]

sorry duplicate

keep getting this with google nexus 7 tablet by asus

[johnnyballgame]

I am not sure why everyone is getting excited on making deals that we over pay which has been the case in every trade this off season. Every team is expecting the Cavs to over pay and the Cavs are quickly burning through there trade assets. IMO, no team with a star like Gasol is going to do a sign and trade for mid to low draft picks and expiring. a more realistic view are the ones talking about good rotation players like Mosgov and Sanders.

We're in position to do absolutely anything we want now. Whether that's sign Gasol or Mozgov or Sanders. Most including me don't think its realistic we'd sign Gasol either. But being in the position we're in - with great players already and the flexibility to improve more is a great reason to get excited. We're trying to win a championship aren't you? What would it take to get you excited about this season?

If you think Gee for Haywood and Powell was a bad deal or Felix & 2nd for Lucas, Thomas, Murphy or Bogans and 2nd for TPE and 2nd are bad deals you're not being very objective. I named more good deals already than you can bad and you claimed we overpaid in every deal, but I don't want to cherry pick anymore than you're exaggerating so I'll name the deals you think were bad.

You think we overpaid with Jack, Karasev, Zeller & 1st for a 2nd and 2 guys who'll never play but the end result was cap space to sign Lebron. Jack had a negative value because of his contract. You had to give up more than 1 of those guys just for someone to have incentive to take him and help us. Karasev couldn't even get on the floor and Zeller wasn't any kind of stud either. People miss him because we are lacking a 7 footer now and I get that but be realistic. He's decent but very replaceable and somehow I think Lebron just might be worth it all.
If you think this is a bad deal I understand it, but its not all about the talent given and received. There's more to it. How else would you have cleared the cap space? Don't expect the same team to take the same players for less because obviously our GM tried that. He didn't start negotiations with 10 players and take players away. I'm sure he started offering just Jack and added assets until the deal was good enough for someone to accept. It takes two sides to make a deal. The cost was the cost. Not every team was in position to take Jack's garbage salary and/or wanted to help an eastern conference rival land Lebron.

The reality is you're still bitter about Wiggins, Bennett and a 1st for Love. That was the only other deal you could say we overpaid on. But we all know how debatable this one is. Everyone has an opinion. There's been enough threads and posts about it so I won't rehash but I will say it's just too late to be bitter over this. In fact no one else is complaining anymore. It's pretty much just you.

If we made all bad deals would our team be this much better than it was at the end of last season? Would title chasers like Marion be coming here for the min over the Spurs, Clippers or elsewhere? Would Miller turn down more money from Denver to come here?
If you're a Cavs fan just move on already and root for the Cavs. They're in an incredible position compared to last season and signing Lebron isn't the totality of that. It's because of all the moves that Griffin/Lebron/whoever you think our GM is has made. There just hasn't been any bad ones because the Cavs are amongst the elite now and that was a virtual impossibility at the end of last season. So cheer up and enjoy the winning. You can still root for Wiggins and Bennett and whoever else you want, so long as they aren't playing the Cavs.

[rjgraca]

I am not sure why everyone is getting excited on making deals that we over pay which has been the case in every trade this off season. Every team is expecting the Cavs to over pay and the Cavs are quickly burning through there trade assets. IMO, no team with a star like Gasol is going to do a sign and trade for mid to low draft picks and expiring. a more realistic view are the ones talking about good rotation players like Mosgov and Sanders.

We're in position to do absolutely anything we want now. Whether that's sign Gasol or Mozgov or Sanders. Most including me don't think its realistic we'd sign Gasol either. But being in the position we're in - with great players already and the flexibility to improve more is a great reason to get excited. We're trying to win a championship aren't you? What would it take to get you excited about this season?

If you think Gee for Haywood and Powell was a bad deal or Felix & 2nd for Lucas, Thomas, Murphy or Bogans and 2nd for TPE and 2nd are bad deals you're not being very objective. I named more good deals already than you can bad and you claimed we overpaid in every deal, but I don't want to cherry pick anymore than you're exaggerating so I'll name the deals you think were bad.

You think we overpaid with Jack, Karasev, Zeller & 1st for a 2nd and 2 guys who'll never play but the end result was cap space to sign Lebron. Jack had a negative value because of his contract. You had to give up more than 1 of those guys just for someone to have incentive to take him and help us. Karasev couldn't even get on the floor and Zeller wasn't any kind of stud either. People miss him because we are lacking a 7 footer now and I get that but be realistic. He's decent but very replaceable and somehow I think Lebron just might be worth it all.
If you think this is a bad deal I understand it, but its not all about the talent given and received. There's more to it. How else would you have cleared the cap space? Don't expect the same team to take the same players for less because obviously our GM tried that. He didn't start negotiations with 10 players and take players away. I'm sure he started offering just Jack and added assets until the deal was good enough for someone to accept. It takes two sides to make a deal. The cost was the cost. Not every team was in position to take Jack's garbage salary and/or wanted to help an eastern conference rival land Lebron.

The reality is you're still bitter about Wiggins, Bennett and a 1st for Love. That was the only other deal you could say we overpaid on. But we all know how debatable this one is. Everyone has an opinion. There's been enough threads and posts about it so I won't rehash but I will say it's just too late to be bitter over this. In fact no one else is complaining anymore. It's pretty much just you.

If we made all bad deals would our team be this much better than it was at the end of last season? Would title chasers like Marion be coming here for the min over the Spurs, Clippers or elsewhere? Would Miller turn down more money from Denver to come here?
If you're a Cavs fan just move on already and root for the Cavs. They're in an incredible position compared to last season and signing Lebron isn't the totality of that. It's because of all the moves that Griffin/Lebron/whoever you think our GM is has made. There just hasn't been any bad ones because the Cavs are amongst the elite now and that was a virtual impossibility at the end of last season. So cheer up and enjoy the winning. You can still root for Wiggins and Bennett and whoever else you want, so long as they aren't playing the Cavs.

Not sure why it took you such a long post which sounds like Griffin himself trying to cover over the one sided trades for cap space. Having cap space is by no sure way that this cap space will turn into a significant player.
I'm ok and believe that Cavs need to wait until next season with the Haywood expiring and the Bogan trade exception which suggest a more realistic approach good rotation depth. Yes, those cap deals were very costly and depth is something every team needs which Miami found out last season. Bogans was traded within two days to show how realistic the so-called 16 million in expiring to get an all-star is anything close to reality. The title Chasers like Marion came due to the luck of Lebron returning --- NOT those over pay deals which kind of points to your exaggeration in which you try to cover up with a long boring post about your opinion. Heck, even New Jersey Gm was looked on in a good light despite just spending like a drunk sailor on shore leave with money burning through his pockets.

Realistic targets like good rotation players and cap management instead of the approach of we can do anything from here and blow the cap away with another max type free agent who probably won't be worth it. Those cap clearing deals were due to poor planning on cap management by Griffin and flying on the seat of his pants to panic mode to get that cap space which every team was pretty much aware of. With the Lebron and Kevin Love stories going around... it was just a matter of time before Griffin would give in to historic return for the Wolves for a team in there position.