Do you honestly think Chauncey is a future hall of famer?

[Hollins625]

Do you honestly think Chauncey Billups will go into the hall of fame someday because most people don't think he will despite how great of a career he had.

On RealGM he is a god...

Im debating with posters on the PC forum that Billups wasnt better than Isiah Thomas.

Better than Zeke?!!?

That's crazy talk right there. I love Billups, but we need a sanity check on this buffoonery.

Interesting cause the numbers clearly tell a different story! (again...)
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/co ... son=career

Pistons Fans would probably kill me but in my opinion Isiah is one of the most overrated players in the history of basketball as he had "only" three good years and then declined heavily. Just look at his shooting numbers! A career TS% of 51.6% is pretty bad (+ 5.0 TO per 48...). In comparison Chauncey 58.0% and just 3.1!

This article sums up his career pretty good:
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/02/18/was-i ... ards-ever/

Oh, and Chauncey is a lock for the hall in my opinion. Isiah in his prime was probably better than Chauncey in his but as longevity goes this should be a no-brainer!

[Snakebites]

At the risk of committing blasphemy, I don't think Billups' career credentials are all that different than Dumars, and he got in without controversy.

[Irate]

At the risk of committing blasphemy, I don't think Billups' career credentials are all that different than Dumars, and he got in without controversy.

Dumars had a title as an executive on his resume when he was inducted.

[Snakebites]

At the risk of committing blasphemy, I don't think Billups' career credentials are all that different than Dumars, and he got in without controversy.

Dumars had a title as an executive on his resume when he was inducted.

He was inducted as a PLAYER, meaning he got in on those merits alone.

There are people who are in the hall in more than one capacity.

[Irate]

At the risk of committing blasphemy, I don't think Billups' career credentials are all that different than Dumars, and he got in without controversy.

Dumars had a title as an executive on his resume when he was inducted.

He was inducted as a PLAYER, meaning he got in on those merits alone.

There are people who are in the hall in more than one capacity.

If what you said was even close to being true, and it isn't, Jerry West would be inducted twice.

[Redeemed]

On RealGM he is a god...

Im debating with posters on the PC forum that Billups wasnt better than Isiah Thomas.

Better than Zeke?!!?

That's crazy talk right there. I love Billups, but we need a sanity check on this buffoonery.

Interesting cause the numbers clearly tell a different story! (again...)
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/co ... son=career

Pistons Fans would probably kill me but in my opinion Isiah is one of the most overrated players in the history of basketball as he had "only" three good years and then declined heavily. Just look at his shooting numbers! A career TS% of 51.6% is pretty bad (+ 5.0 TO per 48...). In comparison Chauncey 58.0% and just 3.1!

This article sums up his career pretty good:
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/02/18/was-i ... ards-ever/

Oh, and Chauncey is a lock for the hall in my opinion. Isiah in his prime was probably better than Chauncey in his but as longevity goes this should be a no-brainer!

My man Hollins625!! What's up! Welcome to the board. I really enjoyed our Olajuwon/Robinson discussion on the Player Comparison board. Glad to see you make it over here.

I'm glad you agree that Billups is a lock for the HOF, but I am again baffled by the substance of your argument being solely based on the numbers. Thomas was dominate coming out the gate. He destroyed the comp for years. He could score at a high clip in the space of very little time he could light up opposing defenses 16 pts in 90 seconds againts the Knicks and 25 pts in the third quarter against the Lakers in the Finals to name a few.

He could dish the rock with the best of them too. He was by far the best floor general in our franchise history and one of the best to ever play the position. Incidentally, how's this for stats: when going head to head against Magic, Bird, and Jordan, his teams beat those teams more than they beat him.

Of those three stellar players, Isiah was the only one who did not have a teammate rank in the top 50 alltime when the NBA ranked the top 50 players back in the day. As for his proposed decline, this again is another clear indication that you've never seen him play because all he did was suppress his game and numbers in favor of winning.

Billups had his very best years as a Piston (and yes I realize he had his highest scoring average as a Nugget). It is where he became an elite floor general. He's one of my favorite Pistons. I'm glad we had him and I wish we would have never moved him back when we did. That's all I'm going to say about Mr. Bigshot.

[Snakebites]

Dumars had a title as an executive on his resume when he was inducted.

He was inducted as a PLAYER, meaning he got in on those merits alone.

There are people who are in the hall in more than one capacity.

If what you said was even close to being true, and it isn't, Jerry West would be inducted twice.

Except there is no executive category.

[Warspite]

On RealGM he is a god...

Im debating with posters on the PC forum that Billups wasnt better than Isiah Thomas.

Better than Zeke?!!?

That's crazy talk right there. I love Billups, but we need a sanity check on this buffoonery.

Interesting cause the numbers clearly tell a different story! (again...)
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/co ... son=career

Pistons Fans would probably kill me but in my opinion Isiah is one of the most overrated players in the history of basketball as he had "only" three good years and then declined heavily. Just look at his shooting numbers! A career TS% of 51.6% is pretty bad (+ 5.0 TO per 48...). In comparison Chauncey 58.0% and just 3.1!

This article sums up his career pretty good:
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/02/18/was-i ... ards-ever/

Oh, and Chauncey is a lock for the hall in my opinion. Isiah in his prime was probably better than Chauncey in his but as longevity goes this should be a no-brainer!

Horrible arguement. You either have to move Billups into the 80s or bring Isiah to todays rules and peers for any kind of comparison. Im sure Isiah would put a TSof 60% being able to play in todays no handcheck, no shotblocker and touch fouls. All you have to do is take away 5-6 misses from Isiah, put him on the FT line for 6more FTs and give him 2 more layups a game. Derrick Rose with worse stats than that won an MVP and he isnt half the player Isiah was.

Billups best move was the pump fake jump into his man and get the foul. When the ref didnt give it to him he was pretty useless.

[AMW27]

It might be 50/50 if Billups gets in the hall of fame.

You can say he was the best player on those Pistons teams from 2003-2008. But he didn't deserve that mvp hype he got in 2006.

[AMW27]

I don't believe he's a HOFer based on his playing career alone, if he becomes a coach or GM and has any sort of success, then he should become a future HOFer. Kinda like Dumars. I don't think Dumars was a HOFer based only on his playing days alone, his success in his early years as GM cemented his HOF status.

You have a point here. Dumars was selected as one of the fifty greatest players of all time at one point... He was not a great player.

Without his gm position he still probably would have gotten in the hof. he had a similar career and resume like Billups'. Then again the title aas an executive could have been the dagger.

The thing about the basketball hof/nba hof is you don't have to be a truly great player to get in.

Billups may luck up and get in.

[Hollins625]

Better than Zeke?!!?

That's crazy talk right there. I love Billups, but we need a sanity check on this buffoonery.

Interesting cause the numbers clearly tell a different story! (again...)
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/co ... son=career

Pistons Fans would probably kill me but in my opinion Isiah is one of the most overrated players in the history of basketball as he had "only" three good years and then declined heavily. Just look at his shooting numbers! A career TS% of 51.6% is pretty bad (+ 5.0 TO per 48...). In comparison Chauncey 58.0% and just 3.1!

This article sums up his career pretty good:
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/02/18/was-i ... ards-ever/

Oh, and Chauncey is a lock for the hall in my opinion. Isiah in his prime was probably better than Chauncey in his but as longevity goes this should be a no-brainer!

My man Hollins625!! What's up! Welcome to the board. I really enjoyed our Olajuwon/Robinson discussion on the Player Comparison board. Glad to see you make it over here.

I'm glad you agree that Billups is a lock for the HOF, but I am again baffled by the substance of your argument being solely based on the numbers. Thomas was dominate coming out the gate. He destroyed the comp for years. He could score at a high clip in the space of very little time he could light up opposing defenses 16 pts in 90 seconds againts the Knicks and 25 pts in the third quarter against the Lakers in the Finals to name a few.

He could dish the rock with the best of them too. He was by far the best floor general in our franchise history and one of the best to ever play the position. Incidentally, how's this for stats: when going head to head against Magic, Bird, and Jordan, his teams beat those teams more than they beat him.

Of those three stellar players, Isiah was the only one who did not have a teammate rank in the top 50 alltime when the NBA ranked the top 50 players back in the day. As for his proposed decline, this again is another clear indication that you've never seen him play because all he did was suppress his game and numbers in favor of winning.

Billups had his very best years as a Piston (and yes I realize he had his highest scoring average as a Nugget). It is where he became an elite floor general. He's one of my favorite Pistons. I'm glad we had him and I wish we would have never moved him back when we did. That's all I'm going to say about Mr. Bigshot.

Man, you really love those old highlight stories, don't you?

My argument is mainly based on numbers because 1) numbers often reveal more than watching the games and 2) like most of the people here, I suppose, I only know Isiah from some highlight videos, hero stories and stats sites as I am an NBA fan since the mid 90s.

Let me add 2 things:
1) How on earth can you say "he was dominate coming out of the gate"? I don't wanna bore you with more numbers but please have a quick look at his rookie season (where he was an all-star while having horrible numbers!).
2) Your argument that " he did was suppress his game and numbers in favor of winning." confuses me to be honest because shooting too much and inefficient doesn't help with winning in the NBA. What about the fact that his team and his mates got better?

Still, I agree he was great in his prime although it didn't last very long...

And in my opinion Chauncey had the better career overall based on clearly better advanced stats!
It's the old problem in the NBA: High volume scorers are mostly overrated and high efficiency guy are mostly underrated!

[Warspite]

Interesting cause the numbers clearly tell a different story! (again...)
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/co ... son=career

Pistons Fans would probably kill me but in my opinion Isiah is one of the most overrated players in the history of basketball as he had "only" three good years and then declined heavily. Just look at his shooting numbers! A career TS% of 51.6% is pretty bad (+ 5.0 TO per 48...). In comparison Chauncey 58.0% and just 3.1!

This article sums up his career pretty good:
http://wagesofwins.com/2013/02/18/was-i ... ards-ever/

Oh, and Chauncey is a lock for the hall in my opinion. Isiah in his prime was probably better than Chauncey in his but as longevity goes this should be a no-brainer!

My man Hollins625!! What's up! Welcome to the board. I really enjoyed our Olajuwon/Robinson discussion on the Player Comparison board. Glad to see you make it over here.

I'm glad you agree that Billups is a lock for the HOF, but I am again baffled by the substance of your argument being solely based on the numbers. Thomas was dominate coming out the gate. He destroyed the comp for years. He could score at a high clip in the space of very little time he could light up opposing defenses 16 pts in 90 seconds againts the Knicks and 25 pts in the third quarter against the Lakers in the Finals to name a few.

He could dish the rock with the best of them too. He was by far the best floor general in our franchise history and one of the best to ever play the position. Incidentally, how's this for stats: when going head to head against Magic, Bird, and Jordan, his teams beat those teams more than they beat him.

Of those three stellar players, Isiah was the only one who did not have a teammate rank in the top 50 alltime when the NBA ranked the top 50 players back in the day. As for his proposed decline, this again is another clear indication that you've never seen him play because all he did was suppress his game and numbers in favor of winning.

Billups had his very best years as a Piston (and yes I realize he had his highest scoring average as a Nugget). It is where he became an elite floor general. He's one of my favorite Pistons. I'm glad we had him and I wish we would have never moved him back when we did. That's all I'm going to say about Mr. Bigshot.

Man, you really love those old highlight stories, don't you?

My argument is mainly based on numbers because 1) numbers often reveal more than watching the games and 2) like most of the people here, I suppose, I only know Isiah from some highlight videos, hero stories and stats sites as I am an NBA fan since the mid 90s.

Let me add 2 things:
1) How on earth can you say "he was dominate coming out of the gate"? I don't wanna bore you with more numbers but please have a quick look at his rookie season (where he was an all-star while having horrible numbers!).
2) Your argument that " he did was suppress his game and numbers in favor of winning." confuses me to be honest because shooting too much and inefficient doesn't help with winning in the NBA. What about the fact that his team and his mates got better?

Still, I agree he was great in his prime although it didn't last very long...

And in my opinion Chauncey had the better career overall based on clearly better advanced stats!
It's the old problem in the NBA: High volume scorers are mostly overrated and high efficiency guy are mostly underrated!

How are stats more accurate than the eye test? Stats are merely the results of what 1 guy saw in the game. We have done several studies that prove that the statistician is inaccurate and a homer. In most cases he is at best 80% correct.

The biggest issue I have is simply that the game is different and that you assume that the NBA is played the same in 1985 as it is in 2005. That simply is not true. Furthermore how can you say that Isiahs adv stats hurt his team when his team is still top in offense and top 5 in SRS even though the talent on that team is pretty weak?

Why dont you use your adv stats with his assists and turn them into makes? Because Isiah is producing double the assists he can have more misses than a Billups. Again Billups is a role player who basically only shoots 3s and yes he was a poor defender that was bailed out by Wallacex2. Billups adv stats look great because of the FTs. So he does all his damage in the last 2mins. I cant recall how many games Billups was a no show but he had 18pts at the end because he was the guy taking all the FTs in the last few mins.


Seriously please go on youtube and watch a game. Count how many times Isiah drives the lane and is fouled and its a no call. Take a look at the difference in talent between the Birds Celtics and Kidds Nets then try to understand why you might not want a 41% FG shooter in Billups taking all those 3s when the other team is dunking every miss. Today there is no fast break offense so you can bomb away but vs MJ,Nique, Showtime, Drexler it is a recipe for failure.

[MrBigShot]

I think so. He's had success in college, success in the NBA to the tune of a finals MVP and 7 straight ECFs, and some success in international play as well. His numbers are by no means incredible, but his impact went well beyond that. More than anything, Chauncey was just a flat out terrific leader and floor general.

I think he gets in eventually. He's had too much success (both team and individual) not to get in eventually, especially by the basketball HoF's standards.