Fake Trade Thread 2014-15

[Liver_Pooty]

I don't know where this no D on Zeller comes from. Hes actually pretty solid on defense.

[HornetJail]

Eeks.

I'm far from the biggest Zeller supporter on here, and i think every deal in that post was horrible return for him.

Zeller's defense isn't awful, but it leaves quite a bit to be desired. If he can't just "out-athlete" his opponent, he gets pushed around way too easily. He better have packed his stuff and moved into the weight room this summer because his lack of strength was extremely evident, even against opponents of average strength. He has defensive skill and has some fundamentals, but they're pretty useless against NBA big men if you don't have any strength whatsoever.

[catch20two]

Everybody is so hell bent on 1st round draft picks like they're gold. Well we got 2 lottery picks at the PF position over the past 2 years and it's still our weakest position in the starting lineup.

I'd trade Zeller and a 1st for a quality PF that can score like Taj Gibson or Amir Johnson for a legitimate playoff run in a heartbeat. Because at the end of the day if Zeller don't pan out to be starter quality then he become a bad contract real quick as a #4 overall selection. And that's without mentioning that we still have Vonleh. One of Zeller or Vonleh likely won't be here in 2 years if you ask me.

[HornetJail]

Everybody is so hell bent on 1st round draft picks like they're gold. Well we got 2 lottery picks at the PF position over the past 2 years and it's still our weakest position in the starting lineup.

I'd trade Zeller and a 1st for a quality PF that can score like Taj Gibson or Amir Johnson for a legitimate playoff run in a heartbeat. Because at the end of the day if Zeller don't pan out to be starter quality then he become a bad contract real quick as a #4 overall selection. And that's without mentioning that we still have Vonleh. One of Zeller or Vonleh likely won't be here in 2 years if you ask me.

I wouldn't trade that package for Amir Johnson, but Gibson absolutely. I expect it's Zeller that goes for a win-now kind of upgrade. We simply have too much depth and no real starter at PF, and it may be that way for another couple years. I'd say the chances of Zeller ever being as good on his rookie contract as Gibson is right now, are 50/50 and that's quite generous.

[Liver_Pooty]

Zeller and a first for Amir Johnson is the worst trade proposal Ive seen on here in over a year.

[catch20two]

Zeller and a first for Amir Johnson is the worst trade proposal Ive seen on here in over a year.

How? If Zeller was as good as Amir Johnson I would be perfectly content with the PF position.

[mrknowitall215]

Zeller and a first for Amir Johnson is the worst trade proposal Ive seen on here in over a year.

How? If Zeller was as good as Amir Johnson I would be perfectly content with the PF position.

The Raptors wouldn't even accept a trade of Cody Zeller & a 1st rounder for Amir Johnson. They already have a similar player in Tyler Hansbrough. Taking on Zeller pricey & uncertain future and a eventual rookie would only impede Toronto's marginal progress that they've made over the past year

There really isn't a trade at the moment involving Zeller that we can make that would greatly benefit us, although I guess it's worth the discussion since that's what the board is about. That's why I've been trying to be optimistic about Zeller...because we can't get rid of him for anything of consequence. As a top 5 pick on a increasing rookie pay scale, he's essentially 'boom or bust'

[Eoghan]

No way the Raptors give up Johnson for Zeller, he's an advanced stat all star.

Amir Johnson would be a practically perfect fit next to Al. He has range out to three and plays D pretty well. It would be a steal of epic proportions if we got him for Zeller.

[HornetJail]

I would say pass on Amir Johnson for 1st+Zeller for a couple reasons:

1) Johnson really isn't THAT great. He's a good defender and an efficient offensive player, but there are a few things going against him. He's not much of a rebounder, and he doesn't take many shots. 7.9 shots per game is very low. I don't normally complain about high efficiency and fewer shots, but if we're trading a package of Zeller + 1st, we need to get someone who can step in for Al in a pinch. A guy like Gibson, who at worst is an equal defensively, is a significantly bigger threat offensively and could probably put in 15-16 points for a couple of weeks if Al gets banged up. If we're going to trade a young guy, we need that type of player up front, because if Al goes down, there's nobody to replace him.

2) This is the more important reason: Johnson's a free agent next summer. So the same reason I didn't want to trade Zeller+1st for an expiring Afflalo, I don't want to trade that package for an expiring Amir Johnson either. If we are really interested, wait till after the season- it's possible that we can create a enough cap room (9M?) to sign him. We'd have to dump Marvin, and Hendo would have to opt out.

[TheKingofSting]

Dumping Marvin is fine.

[El ahrairah]

I don't know where this no D on Zeller comes from. Hes actually pretty solid on defense.

I agree with some of the other people, its the fact that he's not a good defender.
If we were to rank PFs in terms of defense he would not be in the top 30.
Personally, i would not put him between 31-60 either as i could easily list 30 secondary or third string PFs with better defense.
So this would leave him at 61+ and much like 31-60 im sure we could come up with some third string guys who would be ahead of him defensively. Lets say 15 or so. So this then puts him at the 75th best defensive PF in the league. That's not good.
Obviously this is all simply my opinion and based on me quickly tossing things together, but if we are being honest about it, i highly doubt many people would put him at a better ranking then 60.

[El ahrairah]

Zeller and a first for Amir Johnson is the worst trade proposal Ive seen on here in over a year.

The original proposal was Zeller for Johnson, no first included.
At this point you would simply be swapping unneeded offense for needed defense. That being said........

Zeller and a first for Amir Johnson is the worst trade proposal Ive seen on here in over a year.

How? If Zeller was as good as Amir Johnson I would be perfectly content with the PF position.

I actually think if anyone is getting ripped off in the deal it would be the Raptors.
Zeller is 100% potential at this point and his potential, for anyone who has seen his scouting reports, is not impressive. Even if a first was included it would be a 20+ (as mentioned numerous times by other people) and would only be real valuable if we had another 2014 draft.

The reason i think the Craptors would be willing to do this trade is because they seem to have a soft spot for white 7 footers who are 70% SF like offense, 20% rebounding and 10% defense. I don't know what it is, but they are willing to spend half a decade drafting players like this. So im willing to bet they would give up Johnson for another one.

[El ahrairah]

Lastly i will say this.
Of all the trades presented i think the D. Arthur trade would be best for the Hornets.
Highly athletic, good defensively, western conference finals exp., four of five years po experience, is offensively talented, still young, etc.
I dont know if the Nuggets would simply give him up for Zeller. Given their resigning commitments that is a possibility, but you never know.

[HornetJail]

In short...

Zeller is better than you give him credit for, the Raptors aren't a completely inept franchise anymore, Darrell Arthur is 100% scrubtrashtic.

[Liver_Pooty]

I could understand the Zeller and a first for Gibson arguments, but don't get Johnson, and definitely don't get Arthur. Sheesh.

[El ahrairah]

In short...

Zeller is better than you give him credit for, the Raptors aren't a completely inept franchise anymore, Darrell Arthur is 100% scrubtrashtic.

In short this is your assumption and hope.
As of now, no he is not and there is no scout that see's him as anything more then he currently is, outside of being fine tuned. So again, best case is an athletic energy bench big who can come in and score but wont rebound or defend in any significant or even mentionable, manner.
There seems to be a breakdown of player evaluation when you are calling DA "scrubtrashtic" yet continuing to praise Zeller, when there is not a single thing Zeller does better than DA or is naturally more talented, experienced, etc. If we are doing honest player evaluations there is nothing about Zeller we can highlight over DA.

[Eoghan]

I'd take DA over CZ just to get rid of CZ's contract.

[mrknowitall215]

Darrell Arthur took several steps backwards last season returning from his Achilles' injury, and struggled through a myriad of other injuries through that season from his hip to his knee. Before the injuries I would've gladly loved to have seen Arthur on our team, but not so much now unless he's a backup at best

[vorbis]

just catching up here - as someone who went to several Raps games last season (not just the ones vs Charlotte), Amir Johnson is legit and a far better player than Zeller is right now, and maybe ever. he might actually be a good comparison for Vonleh now that I think about it. fierce rebounder, decent defense, good enough post game and a reliable jumper from 15-18. I would take him on the Hornets any day.

however, this front office's draft record notwithstanding, I'd still be really hesitant to go throwing 1st rounders into trades right now. trade them on draft day or for a legit All-Star type player. otherwise, just hang on to them and use them for predictable salary slots and keep fresh guys on the roster.

[TheKingofSting]

Our firsts will be low, I don't understand not wantingto trade them.