Offseason Thread 7: A Tale Of Two Dragons

[bigfoot]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/milesplumlee13/status/516726575304544256[/tweet]

[LukasBMW]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/milesplumlee13/status/516726575304544256[/tweet]

Look at PJ rocking the old school jersey. Another proud Sun!

[LukasBMW]

Marcus is super underated by this board, not sure why..I think he's going to be huge at backup PF.

Been saying it for a long time now. Marcus is a really solid player. The only thing he's lacking is IQ. He's going to be last years Keef off the bench.

Plus Marcus has a better long ball. Marcus can knock down the 3. Kieff...not so much.

[phrazbit]

I disagree. I think he'll average at least 22-24 minutes a game and will be a spot starter. i would not even be surprised if he earned the starting position at #3. He is the Suns most feared and explosive scorer and one of their best deep shooters. All you really need to do is look for the comments from some of the players on other teams regarding Green. I recall that late in the season when the Suns and Mavs were fighting for the last playoff spot, Dirk commented that Green was the player they feared the most. He is not the only one.

No one on this roster is as good a deep shooter and provides floor spacing that he will give the Suns. You simply do not bury a player that put up 16ppg on good percentages for you last year.

Teams don't use 10-12 man rotations, someone is going to get the axe to their PT from last year. Thomas is going to play the roll of "instant offense off the bench". Green's poor defense, erratic play and that everyone else vying for PT at his position is locked up for the next 3-4 years, is going to leave him the odd man out. I think he will play at, or a bit under 20 minutes early in the year, but that Marcus, Z. Dragic and TJ Warren are going to progressively get more of his minutes.

That is, if he does not get traded.

[lilfishi22]

Makes you wonder was it Babby or Blanks who brought over Marcus?? For a second round pick too. Guess they did okay drafting Kieff as well. Also getting Archie and the 2015 Lakers first rounder from the Nash trade. Hell they did pick up Dragic at Sarver's insistence. And they found PJ Tucker too. Then they tanked their way to the 5th pick in 2013 which was used on Alex Len. McD has done a spectacular job but he had some nice assets to work with when he took over.

I tend to think Babby is the one during the B&B era, doing a lot of the negotiations and personnel suggestions while Blanks was more the talent evaluator.

Either way, McD did a damn fine job with what he had

[lilfishi22]

Teams don't use 10-12 man rotations, someone is going to get the axe to their PT from last year. Thomas is going to play the roll of "instant offense off the bench". Green's poor defense, erratic play and that everyone else vying for PT at his position is locked up for the next 3-4 years, is going to leave him the odd man out. I think he will play at, or a bit under 20 minutes early in the year, but that Marcus, Z. Dragic and TJ Warren are going to progressively get more of his minutes.

That is, if he does not get traded.

I think Green will still get solid minutes because he's the only one on the team outside of Goran who is a "reliable" threat from the 3. He and Frye both had inconsistent shots but Green was ON more than he was off last season. Every team needs a good catch-n-shoot player.

[Jdiddy701]

My new @Warriors jersey #19 a tribute to my friend Raja Bell who taught me a lot of things in the @NBA #BeepBeep http://instagram.com/p/ti3HhYnnra/ - Leandro Barbosa

I wish him a great season in Golden State!!!! Barbosa a great teammate.

[King4Day]

How can i watch the whole media day? I was watching it but it has got frozen. Now when i click it, it only shows Warren part.

http://www.nba.com/suns/media-day-2014

[Walt_Uoob]

Marcus is super underated by this board, not sure why..I think he's going to be huge at backup PF.

Not by me. I have been calling for him to start over tucker. Marcus plays about 10 minutes less than tucker and puts up nearly the same numbers.

I'm telling you, tucker is only here for veteran leadership, which within a year is no longer needed. I guarantee he will be traded. Again for two reasons. 1) to dump salary 2) there are two better players at SF that play behind him (maybe three). Warren, Marcus, and green. No need for tucker and his bone head play.

Prime candidates for trades:
1) Ennis
2) green (although I really like him and would love to keep him) trade candidate because he is a great player on an expiring deal.
3) tucker (no need for a one dimensional aging player on a very tradable contract).


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I love both Tucker and Green but I agree those guys are prime candidates for trade. I think to perennially contend we'll have to keep looking for opportunities to trade veterans for young talent and/or picks like we did in recent years with Lopez, Gortat, Nash, Dudley, and Butler. Might also work to start the season with Tolliver playing a lot in Frye's old role; if he can fill that role well he's very trade-able to a contender as a bargain stretch four with a non-guaranteed second year.

Looking at playoff teams with draft picks owed to them that they might give up for veteran help:
Cleveland has a mid-first-round pick coming from Memphis the next time their pick is in the 6-14 range.
Chicago has a pick coming from Sacramento...if Sacramento gets out of the top ten picks in the next three years.
Houston has one coming from New Orleans the next time theirs is in the 4-20 range (so probably 2015).
Toronto gets the worse of the Knicks' or Nuggets' 2016 pick. Both those teams could be lottery teams in 2016.

[JDLAW]

I disagree. I think he'll average at least 22-24 minutes a game and will be a spot starter. i would not even be surprised if he earned the starting position at #3. He is the Suns most feared and explosive scorer and one of their best deep shooters. All you really need to do is look for the comments from some of the players on other teams regarding Green. I recall that late in the season when the Suns and Mavs were fighting for the last playoff spot, Dirk commented that Green was the player they feared the most. He is not the only one.

No one on this roster is as good a deep shooter and provides floor spacing that he will give the Suns. You simply do not bury a player that put up 16ppg on good percentages for you last year.

Teams don't use 10-12 man rotations, someone is going to get the axe to their PT from last year. Thomas is going to play the roll of "instant offense off the bench". Green's poor defense, erratic play and that everyone else vying for PT at his position is locked up for the next 3-4 years, is going to leave him the odd man out. I think he will play at, or a bit under 20 minutes early in the year, but that Marcus, Z. Dragic and TJ Warren are going to progressively get more of his minutes.

That is, if he does not get traded.

Green's defense is no worse than Thomas' defense. Thomas will not only score, but will have to be a playmaker off the bench. I believe Z Dragic sees few minutes and a lot of DNP-CDs. Marcus will spend significant time backing up his brother. I see significant minutes for Green on this team at both the 2 and 3. If Warren is as good as he seems, he will take minutes from Tucker.

But we'll as camp and pre-season plays out.

[Revived]

WE CAN MAKE THIS WORK DAMMIT

Wow so we're gonna pay Marcus $5M/yr to play 8 mins a game?

[Jdiddy701]

8+8=16

[Jdiddy701]

Suns Media Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3iK-mV ... youtu.be&a

[TheBledShow]

We have a strong core, but we have stocked plenty of assets like Green. If I were to trade Green I would make sure we were getting a big man if not than there is no point. Randolph ,Len, and Toliver are definitely expendable. Len is to injury prone and if we involve him in a trade for a legit center than why not. Right now we just need our front court to equal our back court and also see how small we can actually go with this team could we actually put 3 pgs on the floor at the same time? What are the different combos of lineups that could work? Im sure Hornaseck already has this figured out but we need a consistent rotation just like last year to be successful.

This season will be even more like a track meet so speed and spacing is key.

Green needed to improve his rebounding in the off season so he could sub in at the 2,3. Rebounding could be an issue but note that keef is a much better rebounder than Frye, and defender. Also the fact that while Plumlee may not be a star center he's going to be a good back up for us and somebody I would keep this will be his second full season with 25+ minutes per game I look for him to be more consistent.

[bwgood77]

I disagree. I think he'll average at least 22-24 minutes a game and will be a spot starter. i would not even be surprised if he earned the starting position at #3. He is the Suns most feared and explosive scorer and one of their best deep shooters. All you really need to do is look for the comments from some of the players on other teams regarding Green. I recall that late in the season when the Suns and Mavs were fighting for the last playoff spot, Dirk commented that Green was the player they feared the most. He is not the only one.

No one on this roster is as good a deep shooter and provides floor spacing that he will give the Suns. You simply do not bury a player that put up 16ppg on good percentages for you last year.

Teams don't use 10-12 man rotations, someone is going to get the axe to their PT from last year. Thomas is going to play the roll of "instant offense off the bench". Green's poor defense, erratic play and that everyone else vying for PT at his position is locked up for the next 3-4 years, is going to leave him the odd man out. I think he will play at, or a bit under 20 minutes early in the year, but that Marcus, Z. Dragic and TJ Warren are going to progressively get more of his minutes.

That is, if he does not get traded.

I usually agree with what you have to say for the most part, but I think there is zero chance Z Dragic cuts into Green's time this season. Maybe not even Warren, and I am REALLY high on Warren. Warren has a chance to be the biggest star on this team, but if we start off strong and are firmly in the playoff race, a rookie is just unlikely to get many minutes. When is the last time a rookie got many minutes for a playoff caliber team?

I think Green could get traded though if a good offer comes along. Ironically, he'd fit perfectly on Indiana right now, with their loss of both Stephenson and George. But they are unlikely to give us a first round pick, and if we are trying to make the playoffs, is he worth anything less or anything else they have on their team? Is a team going to give up much for a guy who will become a free agent? He could also fit in nicely as a scorer off the bench for OKC, or even a starter, so they are a team that might give up a first rounder for him if they think he can make a difference in the playoffs. But I think this only would happen if we fall out of the playoff race early, and it's tough to make that assessment before the trade deadline unless you have serious problems.

I think Tucker is more likely to get traded, because he is under contract for longer with team options and many teams need 3 and D guys, especially if Green starts out really well and we want to re-sign him. If Green AND Warren look ready to go this could be more probable, maybe not early, but at the deadline if we feel confident between them and Morris we are fine at the 3. But Tucker also will have a positive impact on Warren and probably teach him some nice things defensively.

[TheBledShow]

PJ is not a guy I would trade until the Suns prove they can win with Warren.... Without PJ last year the Suns lost to the terrible cavs, in a game that Cavs controlled from the beginning he's truly the glue guy for this team.

[bwgood77]

I wouldn't trade anyone because I don't think anyone has enough value to net us good assets in return...not anyone we are talking about trading.

I think there is a chance, but if we are in the playoff race, their isn't a point to trade a guy unless the return improves us. We have enough young guys, especially with two first round picks in one of the next few drafts.

[blee732]

WE CAN MAKE THIS WORK DAMMIT

I like the chart! One thing to keep in mind is that the total of the average minutes by individual can actually add up to more than 240 b/c of injuries or sitting out games. For example, if we have 2 games and Bled plays 35 in one while Goran sits and the reverse happens in the other game, both "average" 35 minutes.

I would think that, even without injuries, we would sometimes sit one of Goran/Bled/IT to rest them, which increases average minutes for everybody and gives players like Goodwin and Ennis some opportunities to play significant minutes on occasion.

[Sunsdeuce]

PJ is not a guy I would trade until the Suns prove they can win with Warren.... Without PJ last year the Suns lost to the terrible cavs, in a game that Cavs controlled from the beginning he's truly the glue guy for this team.

Yeah and tucker cost the suns a few games too. I said it a million times before and I will say it again. Guys like tucker are a dime a dozen. Low skills, hard worker, and hustle guy, quite a few of them in the d league.


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[TheBledShow]

PJ is not a guy I would trade until the Suns prove they can win with Warren.... Without PJ last year the Suns lost to the terrible cavs, in a game that Cavs controlled from the beginning he's truly the glue guy for this team.

Yeah and tucker cost the suns a few games too. I said it a million times before and I will say it again. Guys like tucker are a dime a dozen. Low skills, hard worker, and hustle guy, quite a few of them in the d league.


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Who shoots 40% from the 3 and is the closet thing we have to a lockdown defender. If you can upgrade at SF than great but if you can't there is no point in trading PJ, he's not only a glue guy on the floor but in the locker room, Suns had talent last year but they also had a tight knit chemistry. In this system PJ is exactly what we want.