NBA likely to vote on changing draft odds next month

[Chamberlainship]

the CBA was just changed to prevent things like that actually. You get 7 years to build around a player minimum...if you **** it up too bad.

Why 7? Isn't it 5, ala, Greg Monroe? In sixers case that would be four because of the redshirt situation.

But, whatever, the point is that star players can leave if they want to.

[Unbreakable99]

If Embiid pans out the way you think, what makes you think he'll stay here and not go to the Lakers?

Not to come across antagonistic, but this is incorrect.

In the last two decades of the NBA there have been almost no star rookies that haven't been retained by their drafting teams if their drafting teams can afford them. Most of the time rookies move teams it's financial (eg Harden, Grant Hill); and Philly has the lowest roster salary of all 30 teams.

All 1st round rookies are automatically RFAs which means their drafting team can match any offer and retain them. They're locked in. The only out is taking the QO, and this almost never happens (only 13 in the past decade) and has never happened with a star player AFAIK. The biggest names that took QOs are Ben Gordon and Greg Monroe.

The other exception is if you can force your drafting team to not match by saying you're a cancer and don't want to play there. And that worked out wonderfully for Eric Gordon's career.

TLDR - if you draft a star, 99.9% chance you will keep that star for up to 9 years (rookie + max contract).

Shaq left Orlando after 4.
Zo left Charlotte after 3.
Tmac left Toronto after 3.
Vince, Lebron, and Carmelo left after 7 full seasons.

None of those guys won a title with the team that drafted them (yet). CBAs change. A star can get out of town if he wants.

What do you keep saying Embiid will leave? You souNo ridiculous. If every star will leave Philly then we should never draft anyone who could be good. Let's just draft scrubS to please you.

[Mik317]

but it is very rare that they leave for their first contract.

Monroe is going to leave because of Drummond and that he isn't as good as his contract will demand. If Greg Monroe was Anthony Davis..you can bet Detroit would be bending over backwards to re-sign him. It is very rare that a player turns down the money and years the Hometeam can give them.

They can leave for sure but it will be for that second big contract and not the first one...and honestly by that point, one should have a team in place.

That's something owners will always fight for if not make it stronger.

[Unbreakable99]

I mean if Silver says he wants to stop tanking, but the rule will go into effect in 2 years so the teams can finish their tanking, so I'm cool with it for two years, makes zero sense.

I'll pose a question, if Silver made this rule last year, what would the 76er's of done differently?

Probably nothing, but that is besides the point. This rule will not stop tanking.

The more appropriate question though would be this.

If Hinkie knew that his actions that he was taking would lead to a punishment, how would it have affected his calculus? For the sake of simplicity let's just assume that the Sixers will have the worst record this year and that the lottery would turn out the worst possible way for them, meaning that they end up with the 7th pick. Before the rule change in this scenario they would have the 4th pick.

What kind of compensation would be required to move from the 7th pick up to the 4th pick? This is a concrete representation of how this directly hurts the Sixers. Would any of Hinkie's moves not have been taken if he knew that this cost would be imposed? That's the question.


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hell his plans were already changed to begin with. They tried to get the 1st pick and didn't get it. They wanted Wiggins, and they didn't get him. They got Emblid, who could turn out to be good, but I don't think he invisioned the twin towers as the future.

If they never changed the tanking rule how long could he stretch things out? I mean, If Emblid struggles next year could he tell fans to wait until he fully matures? Or wait another 2 years for Saric because hes going to be game changing? Or wait 3 years because he would need a year to adjust?

Why do you say Hinkie wanted Wiggins fIrst? Based on what we know of Hinkie I think Embiid was his top choice.

[Ericb5]

Probably nothing, but that is besides the point. This rule will not stop tanking.

The more appropriate question though would be this.

If Hinkie knew that his actions that he was taking would lead to a punishment, how would it have affected his calculus? For the sake of simplicity let's just assume that the Sixers will have the worst record this year and that the lottery would turn out the worst possible way for them, meaning that they end up with the 7th pick. Before the rule change in this scenario they would have the 4th pick.

What kind of compensation would be required to move from the 7th pick up to the 4th pick? This is a concrete representation of how this directly hurts the Sixers. Would any of Hinkie's moves not have been taken if he knew that this cost would be imposed? That's the question.


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hell his plans were already changed to begin with. They tried to get the 1st pick and didn't get it. They wanted Wiggins, and they didn't get him. They got Emblid, who could turn out to be good, but I don't think he invisioned the twin towers as the future.

If they never changed the tanking rule how long could he stretch things out? I mean, If Emblid struggles next year could he tell fans to wait until he fully matures? Or wait another 2 years for Saric because hes going to be game changing? Or wait 3 years because he would need a year to adjust?

Why do you say Hinkie wanted Wiggins fIrst? Based on what we know of Hinkie I think Embiid was his top choice.

Until he got hurt Embiid was probably everyone's top choice. He is a better prospect than Wiggins by a good margin if he is healthy.


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[marcush]

I do honestly think there is just a bit of Sixer bashing mentality happening at the moment. It's kinda funny now that one of the big cases against us right now is not attempting to put a competitive roster and yet, if you wind the clock back a few months, one of the stories floating around was how appalled the other teams would be if we absorbed Asik and Lin from the Rox. We would have been "doing his old boss another favour" they said. Of course the trades did not go down and Lakers were applauded for taking on Lin, Pels were patted on the back for giving up a lottery pick for Asik.

Now I'm not saying that mob mentality is always wrong as we all do it but the wage Adam Silver is on he needs to be able to sort through this issue logically. Will these changes deter tanking? My theory is that they will discourage the uber tank but only serve to increase the Boston style tank from last year, or the Portland tank the year before, or the Warriors tank the year before that.

Then you have to look at the timing, what is the aim of bringing it in this early? How does this deter tanking this year? It doesn't, it's too late for roster strategies to be formulated and executed. It seems a pretty much just a slap to the sixers, a knee jerk reaction to some negativity. Wouldn't this have been better off happening before free agency starts?

[maddog50]

I mean if Silver says he wants to stop tanking, but the rule will go into effect in 2 years so the teams can finish their tanking, so I'm cool with it for two years, makes zero sense.

I'll pose a question, if Silver made this rule last year, what would the 76er's of done differently?

Sign some free agents, maybe? Bledsoe would have filled a need.

[Skates]

And when the typical top of the lottery team lands there like Milwaukee did, through organizational incompetence, and end up picking between 5-7 for three straight years in drafts that aren't especially deep, and with the new CBA making any cap space they create commonplace among organizations far more desirable to free agents, there will be a huge clamor about how unfair the new system is, how it punishes teams that can't help but to lose and perpetuates a talentless roster and/or the desperate signing of overpaid, utterly mediocre free agents by that team.

I love the outcry over the need to fix a system because of a team that has amassed a ton of young talent and picks without ever having the top pick in the draft and, even under the old system, no better than a 25% chance to get one in the future.

[marcush]

I mean if Silver says he wants to stop tanking, but the rule will go into effect in 2 years so the teams can finish their tanking, so I'm cool with it for two years, makes zero sense.

I'll pose a question, if Silver made this rule last year, what would the 76er's of done differently?

Sign some free agents, maybe? Bledsoe would have filled a need.

A six foot combo guard at 16 mill is not a need and shouldn't be for any team.

[maddog50]

I mean if Silver says he wants to stop tanking, but the rule will go into effect in 2 years so the teams can finish their tanking, so I'm cool with it for two years, makes zero sense.

I'll pose a question, if Silver made this rule last year, what would the 76er's of done differently?

Sign some free agents, maybe? Bledsoe would have filled a need.

A six foot combo guard at 16 mill is not a need and shouldn't be for any team.

Except when he is an awesome player and it's 14 mil/year and you have a huge PG and no shooting...

[marcush]

Sign some free agents, maybe? Bledsoe would have filled a need.

A six foot combo guard at 16 mill is not a need and shouldn't be for any team.

Except when he is an awesome player and it's 14 mil/year and you have a huge PG and no shooting...

Maybe check out the rules regarding RFAs, if we had offered 14mill Suns would have matched. We would have had to give him the max and then maybe they wouldn't. Does that make sense?

[maddog50]

A six foot combo guard at 16 mill is not a need and shouldn't be for any team.

Except when he is an awesome player and it's 14 mil/year and you have a huge PG and no shooting...

Maybe check out the rules regarding RFAs, if we had offered 14mill Suns would have matched. We would have had to give him the max and then maybe they wouldn't. Does that make sense?

The point is to try to fill needs. The Sixers really didn't try, despite so much cap space and flexibility. That is why everyone is coming down hard on Philly and, as a fan, I will defend it only up to a point.

[marcush]

Hey, if Bledsoe was the proper size for a 2 guard then sure, he would have filled a need but he is not, so you don't spend 16 mill on someone just because he is talented. Long term it's not a need or a fit.

Monroe, not a need either considering who we have drafted.

Parsons and Haywood, both fit the needs basis but they were still paid way above their production. Maybe people would be suitably appeased if we had given out some max offer sheets to players who would have no interest in our situation and would kill any chance we may have at signing a real max player in a couple of years.

Deng, maybe but who's he going to choose?

[Unbreakable99]

Except when he is an awesome player and it's 14 mil/year and you have a huge PG and no shooting...

Maybe check out the rules regarding RFAs, if we had offered 14mill Suns would have matched. We would have had to give him the max and then maybe they wouldn't. Does that make sense?

The point is to try to fill needs. The Sixers really didn't try, despite so much cap space and flexibility. That is why everyone is coming down hard on Philly and, as a fan, I will defend it only up to a point.

Incorrect. This is where people like you are wrong. The goal is not to just fill needs. The goal Is to try to win a championship. Signing Bledsoe would have made us better this year but would have taken up valuable cap space where we couldn't sign a big time FA next year or in 2 years. We are not winning any title this year or next year. The goal is to win a championship so Hinkie is saving money to give to a free agent who is worth it.

[MCtripDub]

What I don't understand is why do other teams' fans or gm's care so much on how we do our business. Let's say for the sake of argument that we did try to suck. Then good for non sixer fans right? Playing us would be an automatic W for their team right?

We are gathering assets and other teams seem to be really threatened (almost jealous) by it, especially since it's only taken hinkie two off-seasons so far to form a team that seems to have a lot of potential moving forward. And tanking or not, 3 out of the 4 foundation players we have didn't even come from our 13-14 record. Mcw via our 12-13 record. Noel via trade. Saric via trade. Everyone else via trade. Except for embiid. One player. One. People forget how the celtics were 'tanking' for that Oden/durant draft, and people don't give them as much ish about it coz they were unsuccessful. (Well, to some extent coz they won the championship that year. ) we are just getting heat coz it seems to be working for us.

So I'm not so sure what everyone is complaining about. But whatever, we're seen as a threat with the talent we have and how short of a time we were able to acquire them. Works for me.


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[maddog50]

Maybe check out the rules regarding RFAs, if we had offered 14mill Suns would have matched. We would have had to give him the max and then maybe they wouldn't. Does that make sense?

The point is to try to fill needs. The Sixers really didn't try, despite so much cap space and flexibility. That is why everyone is coming down hard on Philly and, as a fan, I will defend it only up to a point.

Incorrect. This is where people like you are wrong. The goal is not to just fill needs. The goal Is to try to win a championship. Signing Bledsoe would have made us better this year but would have taken up valuable cap space where we couldn't sign a big time FA next year or in 2 years. We are not winning any title this year or next year. The goal is to win a championship so Hinkie is saving money to give to a free agent who is worth it.

Really? You mean "needs" does not relate to building a championship? Is this a collective series of statements to reach a proposition, or an argument?

Anyway, no ****, Sherlock. The cap is going up. The Sixers have incredible flexibility to sign high value players. Odds are that not all of the team's prospects work out.

[Unbreakable99]

The point is to try to fill needs. The Sixers really didn't try, despite so much cap space and flexibility. That is why everyone is coming down hard on Philly and, as a fan, I will defend it only up to a point.

Incorrect. This is where people like you are wrong. The goal is not to just fill needs. The goal Is to try to win a championship. Signing Bledsoe would have made us better this year but would have taken up valuable cap space where we couldn't sign a big time FA next year or in 2 years. We are not winning any title this year or next year. The goal is to win a championship so Hinkie is saving money to give to a free agent who is worth it.

Really? You mean "needs" does not relate to building a championship? Is this a collective series of statements to reach a proposition, or an argument?

Anyway, no ****, Sherlock. The cap is going up. The Sixers have incredible flexibility to sign high value players. Odds are that not all of the team's prospects work out.

I'll say it again. The goal is to win a championship. It's not to sign free agents. Signing expensive free agents wouldn't help us reach our goal. Not signing expensive free agents will keep us flexible to actually sign a guy like Kevin Durant or Klay Thompson or someone like that. People just want the Sixers to sign any living human being to a monster deal.

[Mik317]

The point is that you don't worry about need right now. In a few years when hopefully 2 of the Noel, Embiid, MCW, Saric combo are legit players maybe then we go for a Bledsoe type then. Right now? it is questionable...and regardless, it wasn't realistic. The Suns would probably match and if not I doubt we were an ideal location for Bledsoe at the moment anyway...it takes two to tango afterall. Same w/ Parsons and Hayward. It is very very rare that teams let true talents go without matching. Parsons only got away because of the Bosh situation. It was more so Cuban trying to **** over Morey too. So who exactly where we going to sign that was going to help us longterm, exactly? I hear names like Jarrett Jack and Jeremy Lin thrown about and I am very confused that now the moves we made in the past are considered to be the right moves...when I distinctly remember those moves being stupid as hell and we were overpaying scrubs..... Jarrett Jack helps us right now...not so much in the future.

I really can't believe some people are really suggesting that signing mid tier players right now to win maybe a few more games is the best option...all in the name of some misguided pursuit of honor and ****. Is 25 wins that much better than 19?

[WorldBeFree]

I would have liked bledsoe here its just more fun to watch games when your team competes, but whatever our team took this road i will wait one more year and see what happens, but next year we better have some good players here.
And some of the people are right, if it wouldn't work out hinkie could just keep tanking so the nba makes the right move, just to late so the **** slap us with this move. Just imagine if we finish like 6th from the bottom and get the first pick, this would be the best moment of the year, but daydreams cavs will get it somehow ^^

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[maddog50]

Incorrect. This is where people like you are wrong. The goal is not to just fill needs. The goal Is to try to win a championship. Signing Bledsoe would have made us better this year but would have taken up valuable cap space where we couldn't sign a big time FA next year or in 2 years. We are not winning any title this year or next year. The goal is to win a championship so Hinkie is saving money to give to a free agent who is worth it.

Really? You mean "needs" does not relate to building a championship? Is this a collective series of statements to reach a proposition, or an argument?

Anyway, no ****, Sherlock. The cap is going up. The Sixers have incredible flexibility to sign high value players. Odds are that not all of the team's prospects work out.

I'll say it again. The goal is to win a championship. It's not to sign free agents. Signing expensive free agents wouldn't help us reach our goal. Not signing expensive free agents will keep us flexible to actually sign a guy like Kevin Durant or Klay Thompson or someone like that. People just want the Sixers to sign any living human being to a monster deal.

You don't have to repeat yourself on a message board when the redundancy is on the same page. Klay is not coming here without Philly giving up something significantly significant in a trade, like Embiid. Durant? You want to put all of our FA eggs in the Durant basket? What if he doesn't come, as you planned it in your head? Should Philly just continue to miss opportunities until it finds a superstar FA?