BKN/UTAH - Smallish Deal, Potential Major Impact

eitanr · Post #1 » by **eitanr** » Fri Oct 3, 2014 4:30 pm

Nets Trade: M. Tetlovic, MIL 2nd Rd Pick
Receive: R. Gobert, J. Evans

Why for Utah:
The Jazz have future dollars allocated towards Favors and Haywood and need to start building a team that is at least sensible. The Jazz have 2 nice big men in Favors and Kanter and some potential slashers in Burks and Exum. The team has some shooting in Burke + Haywoord, but could use more.

Mirza would be a nice fit in their rotation and allow for Exum to potentially maneuver into the paint and more room for Favors or Kanter to operate in the post. The added 2nd round pick adds some potential for Utah's future.
PF E. Kanter/ M. Tetelovic
SF G. Haywood/ S. Novak
C D. Favors/ T. Booker
SG D. Exum/ R. Hood
PG T. Burke/ A. Burks

Why for BKN:
The Nets have some serious concerns in terms of their 4/5 depth. Brook Lopez is injury prone, KG is a shell of himself and likely can't play more than 15 MPG. While losing Mirza may hurt a tad, it's unclear how Hollins would use him in his rotation. It would behoove the Nets to get two more bigs, one finesse - one rim protector. Gobert and Evans have some real potential, but have been behind the Kanter/Favors tandem in Utah (and before that Millsap/Jefferson). Given the opportunity, these 2 can be some nice diamonds in the rough to give additional minutes to in BK.
PF KG/ J. Evans
SF A. Kirilenko/ B. Bognadavic
C B. Lopez/ R. Gobert
SG J. Johnson/ A. Anderson
PG D. Williams/ J. Jack

franktony · Post #2 » by **franktony** » Fri Oct 3, 2014 4:43 pm

I don't think Jazz fans care much about Evans, but Gobert showed promise playing for France in the WC and I doubt they have any interest to move him.

I think that Jazz fans say no

PS: It's Hayward btw, not Haywood.

Post #3 » by **Trader_Joe** » Fri Oct 3, 2014 4:45 pm

Why would the Jazz want/Nets want to give up a win now piece like Mirza?
He's 28 and close to his prime in the league.

Gobert isn't really needed either with Lopez and Plumlee at C (as well as KG and maybe Jerome Jordan or Willie Reed).

Hollins and the Nets love Mirza as well. He is part of their Mostar, Bosnia connection where he, Bogdanovic, their old pick Plananic and the legendary Petrovic (who they all idolized) are all from.

Post #4 » by **jazzfan1971** » Fri Oct 3, 2014 5:18 pm

No interest in moving gobert.

Jazz decline.

The59Sound · Post #5 » by **The59Sound** » Fri Oct 3, 2014 5:34 pm

franktony wrote:I don't think Jazz fans care much about Evans, but Gobert showed promise playing for France in the WC and I doubt they have any interest to move him.

I think that Jazz fans say no

PS: It's Hayward btw, not Haywood.

Yeah, this would be a strange move for the Jazz. And the Nets are in win-now mode; I suspect they'd rather have a solid, currently contributing big man than a project -- even if that project's ceiling is significantly higher.

giberish · Post #6 » by **giberish** » Fri Oct 3, 2014 5:44 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:Why would the Jazz want/Nets want to give up a win now piece like Mirza?
He's 28 and close to his prime in the league.

Gobert isn't really needed either with Lopez and Plumlee at C (as well as KG and maybe Jerome Jordan or Willie Reed).

Hollins and the Nets love Mirza as well. He is part of their Mostar, Bosnia connection where he, Bogdanovic, their old pick Plananic and the legendary Petrovic (who they all idolized) are all from.

It really does look like a very bad position fit for the Nets. They've got Lopez, Plumlee and KG who all should really only play C. Gobert would just sit behind them. Mirza (and the opt-injured AK who will also play SF) give them 1.5 rotation PF's, which is a lot better than 0.5 rotation PF's if they deal Mirza without getting one back.

Ruckusmh · Post #7 » by **Ruckusmh** » Sat Oct 4, 2014 8:24 am

Jazz have no interest in moving Gobert for essentially nothing.

Boarder Patrol · Post #8 » by **Boarder Patrol** » Sat Oct 4, 2014 3:17 pm

Gobert >>>>> Mirza in terms of value

Post #9 » by **jazzfan1971** » Sat Oct 4, 2014 4:30 pm

Boarder Patrol wrote:Gobert >>>>> Mirza in terms of value

I'm a little surprised to see non-Jazz fans valuing him so highly. I guess the word is getting out.

eitanr · Post #10 » by **eitanr** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 1:18 pm

I still feel the Nets need to make a 2 for 1 move, netting back 2 productive big men. Word is apparently out on Gobert, but he got less than 500 minutes last season on a bad Utah team. I think that situation didn't help with the club signing Trevor Booker.

I don't see Gobert's minutes going up and see him as a far better insurance 5 (keep in mind 'insurance' is when Lopez inevitably gets hurt) than Jerome Jordan (ewwww).

Evans also needs an opportunity to get consistent minutes. I don't see KG getting more than 15 MPG, even with Plumlee and even AK47 getting some minutes at the 3/4 the Nets will still need another forward who can contribute. For the Nets, it's a chance to give 2 guys more consistent minutes and hoping one of them really pans out.

I think if the Nets threw the Bucks 2nd rounder here, despite how 'high' Jazz fans may be on Gobert, they do this deal.

On a final point, to those Nets fans who are cool with their 4/5 "depth", let's be a bit more realistic here. The core of Lopez/KG/AK47 is either very fragile (i.e. injury prone) or can't play excessive minutes (KG). I don't see Hollins loving Mirza to the extent of giving him near 30 MPG to close that gap and would be scared for him to play that on a consistent basis not if, but when one of those 3 go down to injury. The Nets simply need a better insurance plan than the current state.

Post #11 » by **Trader_Joe** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 1:25 pm

eitanr wrote:I still feel the Nets need to make a 2 for 1 move, netting back 2 productive big men. Word is apparently out on Gobert, but he got less than 500 minutes last season on a bad Utah team. I think that situation didn't help with the club signing Trevor Booker.

I don't see Gobert's minutes going up and see him as a far better insurance 5 (keep in mind 'insurance' is when Lopez inevitably gets hurt) than Jerome Jordan (ewwww).

Evans also needs an opportunity to get consistent minutes. I don't see KG getting more than 15 MPG, even with Plumlee and even AK47 getting some minutes at the 3/4 the Nets will still need another forward who can contribute. For the Nets, it's a chance to give 2 guys more consistent minutes and hoping one of them really pans out.

I think if the Nets threw the Bucks 2nd rounder here, despite how 'high' Jazz fans may be on Gobert, they do this deal.

On a final point, to those Nets fans who are cool with their 4/5 "depth", let's be a bit more realistic here. The core of Lopez/KG/AK47 is either very fragile (i.e. injury prone) or can't play excessive minutes (KG). I don't see Hollins loving Mirza to the extent of giving him near 30 MPG to close that gap and would be scared for him to play that on a consistent basis not if, but when one of those 3 go down to injury. The Nets simply need a better insurance plan than the current state.

Realistic?
What exactly do Gobert or Evans do for a win now team?

PF: KG/Plumlee/Teletovic/AK/Jefferson
C: Lopez/Plumlee/KG/Jordan or Reed

If anything I don't see enough minutes for everyone.
KG won't be limited by Hollins and is hungry to go out on a good note.
Teletovic should be playing close to 30mpg
AK needs minutes at PF since JJ will be at SF
Plumlee needs to play more than the 18mpg he played last year
And finally there will be two young guys as emergency insurance out of Jefferson/Jordan/Reed.

Sure there will be injuries, and if they are, Gobert and Evans aren't going to help much in the now.

babyjax13 · Post #12 » by **babyjax13** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 3:55 pm

eitanr wrote:I still feel the Nets need to make a 2 for 1 move, netting back 2 productive big men. Word is apparently out on Gobert, but he got less than 500 minutes last season on a bad Utah team. I think that situation didn't help with the club signing Trevor Booker.

I don't see Gobert's minutes going up and see him as a far better insurance 5 (keep in mind 'insurance' is when Lopez inevitably gets hurt) than Jerome Jordan (ewwww).

Evans also needs an opportunity to get consistent minutes. I don't see KG getting more than 15 MPG, even with Plumlee and even AK47 getting some minutes at the 3/4 the Nets will still need another forward who can contribute. For the Nets, it's a chance to give 2 guys more consistent minutes and hoping one of them really pans out.

I think if the Nets threw the Bucks 2nd rounder here, despite how 'high' Jazz fans may be on Gobert, they do this deal.

On a final point, to those Nets fans who are cool with their 4/5 "depth", let's be a bit more realistic here. The core of Lopez/KG/AK47 is either very fragile (i.e. injury prone) or can't play excessive minutes (KG). I don't see Hollins loving Mirza to the extent of giving him near 30 MPG to close that gap and would be scared for him to play that on a consistent basis not if, but when one of those 3 go down to injury. The Nets simply need a better insurance plan than the current state.

The Jazz will play Gobert more this year than they did last season. He's still a major project, but there is no way we trade him for second round picks. I think there are other teams that would be more willing to make deals with Brooklyn.

eitanr · Post #13 » by **eitanr** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 7:24 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
eitanr wrote:I still feel the Nets need to make a 2 for 1 move, netting back 2 productive big men. Word is apparently out on Gobert, but he got less than 500 minutes last season on a bad Utah team. I think that situation didn't help with the club signing Trevor Booker.

I don't see Gobert's minutes going up and see him as a far better insurance 5 (keep in mind 'insurance' is when Lopez inevitably gets hurt) than Jerome Jordan (ewwww).

Evans also needs an opportunity to get consistent minutes. I don't see KG getting more than 15 MPG, even with Plumlee and even AK47 getting some minutes at the 3/4 the Nets will still need another forward who can contribute. For the Nets, it's a chance to give 2 guys more consistent minutes and hoping one of them really pans out.

I think if the Nets threw the Bucks 2nd rounder here, despite how 'high' Jazz fans may be on Gobert, they do this deal.

On a final point, to those Nets fans who are cool with their 4/5 "depth", let's be a bit more realistic here. The core of Lopez/KG/AK47 is either very fragile (i.e. injury prone) or can't play excessive minutes (KG). I don't see Hollins loving Mirza to the extent of giving him near 30 MPG to close that gap and would be scared for him to play that on a consistent basis not if, but when one of those 3 go down to injury. The Nets simply need a better insurance plan than the current state.

Realistic?
What exactly do Gobert or Evans do for a win now team?

PF: KG/Plumlee/Teletovic/AK/Jefferson
C: Lopez/Plumlee/KG/Jordan or Reed

If anything I don't see enough minutes for everyone.
KG won't be limited by Hollins and is hungry to go out on a good note.
Teletovic should be playing close to 30mpg
AK needs minutes at PF since JJ will be at SF
Plumlee needs to play more than the 18mpg he played last year
And finally there will be two young guys as emergency insurance out of Jefferson/Jordan/Reed.

Sure there will be injuries, and if they are, Gobert and Evans aren't going to help much in the now.

We can argue whether Gobert and Evans may help in the win now, but to say this team doesn't have enough minutes to go around for their 4/5 rotation is a bit delusional.

If the Nets even play Willie Reed or Jerome Jordan a speck of minutes, this team is in trouble. They haven't done anything in their careers to make people feel comfortable of giving them any court time. If they are part of the rotation, that's an issue.

I'd agree that KG may want to leave with a bang, but honestly how many minutes can he play 15-18 tops?

You have to factor the inevitable Brook Lopez injury at this point. We can't assume he will be able to even play 60 games at 33 MPG.

I'd agree that Plumlee needs increased minutes, thinking around 25 MPG would make sense.

So of the 96 minutes when Lopez is healthy we can estimate the following 4/5 allocation:

Brook Lopez - 33
Mason Plumlee - 25
Mirza Tetelovic - 20
Kevin Garnett - 18

That's okay, but what is Lopez goes down to injury...where do those extra 33 minutes come from?

Add 5 to Mirza, and play AK47 28 at the 4? Then Joe/AA/BB split 96 between the 3 of them at the 2/3? I guess it all makes sense.

Post #14 » by **Trader_Joe** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 7:51 pm

eitanr wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
eitanr wrote:I still feel the Nets need to make a 2 for 1 move, netting back 2 productive big men. Word is apparently out on Gobert, but he got less than 500 minutes last season on a bad Utah team. I think that situation didn't help with the club signing Trevor Booker.

I don't see Gobert's minutes going up and see him as a far better insurance 5 (keep in mind 'insurance' is when Lopez inevitably gets hurt) than Jerome Jordan (ewwww).

Evans also needs an opportunity to get consistent minutes. I don't see KG getting more than 15 MPG, even with Plumlee and even AK47 getting some minutes at the 3/4 the Nets will still need another forward who can contribute. For the Nets, it's a chance to give 2 guys more consistent minutes and hoping one of them really pans out.

I think if the Nets threw the Bucks 2nd rounder here, despite how 'high' Jazz fans may be on Gobert, they do this deal.

On a final point, to those Nets fans who are cool with their 4/5 "depth", let's be a bit more realistic here. The core of Lopez/KG/AK47 is either very fragile (i.e. injury prone) or can't play excessive minutes (KG). I don't see Hollins loving Mirza to the extent of giving him near 30 MPG to close that gap and would be scared for him to play that on a consistent basis not if, but when one of those 3 go down to injury. The Nets simply need a better insurance plan than the current state.

Realistic?
What exactly do Gobert or Evans do for a win now team?

PF: KG/Plumlee/Teletovic/AK/Jefferson
C: Lopez/Plumlee/KG/Jordan or Reed

If anything I don't see enough minutes for everyone.
KG won't be limited by Hollins and is hungry to go out on a good note.
Teletovic should be playing close to 30mpg
AK needs minutes at PF since JJ will be at SF
Plumlee needs to play more than the 18mpg he played last year
And finally there will be two young guys as emergency insurance out of Jefferson/Jordan/Reed.

Sure there will be injuries, and if they are, Gobert and Evans aren't going to help much in the now.

We can argue whether Gobert and Evans may help in the win now, but to say this team doesn't have enough minutes to go around for their 4/5 rotation is a bit delusional.

If the Nets even play Willie Reed or Jerome Jordan a speck of minutes, this team is in trouble. They haven't done anything in their careers to make people feel comfortable of giving them any court time. If they are part of the rotation, that's an issue.

I'd agree that KG may want to leave with a bang, but honestly how many minutes can he play 15-18 tops?

You have to factor the inevitable Brook Lopez injury at this point. We can't assume he will be able to even play 60 games at 33 MPG.

I'd agree that Plumlee needs increased minutes, thinking around 25 MPG would make sense.

So of the 96 minutes when Lopez is healthy we can estimate the following 4/5 allocation:

Brook Lopez - 33
Mason Plumlee - 25
Mirza Tetelovic - 20
Kevin Garnett - 18

That's okay, but what is Lopez goes down to injury...where do those extra 33 minutes come from?

Add 5 to Mirza, and play AK47 28 at the 4? Then Joe/AA/BB split 96 between the 3 of them at the 2/3? I guess it all makes sense.

Hollins has already said he's not restricting KG who did not fall off with more minutes last year, it was simply Kidd's practice. If Lopez does down (last time he missed the season prior he played 74 games of 30 mpg the next year and the point of the foot reconstructive surgery was the lessen the odds of another break...and this same procedure helped Ilgauskas come back and play 70 games a season the last 10 years of his career) KG and Plumlee play 24mpg or more to Plumlee. But if Lopez and another Center goes down, Gobert is not going to keep this team afloat... their season is done.

If a third string C is a priority there are much better avenues than trading who looks to be our best PF in Teletovic (who is restricted after this season) and creating a major hole there that Jeremy Evans (a SF/PF) cannot fill. Also, clearly you must no know how high the organization is on Teletovic and how he is Bogdanovic's mentor (another player they love).

Both teams say no, it's really that simple.

As for minutes when healthy....

KG (20) / Teletovic (24) / Plumlee or AK (4)
Lopez (30) / Plumlee (18)

If Lopez goes down...

Teletovic (30) / AK (18)
Garnett (24) / Plumlee (24)
Jefferson, Jordan or Reed - DNPs

And in both cases I don't think Plumlee is getting enough minutes, nor is AK since Hollins has said JJ will the SF and it looks like Bogdanovic the SG, not leaving many minutes for AK, who said he wanted more minutes this year.

Post #15 » by **loserX** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 8:00 pm

Like the old saying goes, "trades work best when the other team values your guy more than you do". Doesn't seem to be the case here for either side, so probably won't happen.

giberish · Post #16 » by **giberish** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 8:19 pm

loserX wrote:Like the old saying goes, "trades work best when the other team values your guy more than you do". Doesn't seem to be the case here for either side, so probably won't happen.

The other problem is that Teletovic is the best win-now piece in the deal, and Gobert is the best win-later piece. BK is a win-now team, Utah is a win-later team.

Post #17 » by **loserX** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 8:21 pm

giberish wrote:
loserX wrote:Like the old saying goes, "trades work best when the other team values your guy more than you do". Doesn't seem to be the case here for either side, so probably won't happen.

The other problem is that Teletovic is the best win-now piece in the deal, and Gobert is the best win-later piece. BK is a win-now team, Utah is a win-later team.

Yeah, my response was a bit glib, but that's largely what I was getting at!

Prokorov · Post #18 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 9:56 pm

eitanr wrote:Nets Trade: M. Tetlovic, MIL 2nd Rd Pick
Receive: R. Gobert, J. Evans

Why for Utah:
The Jazz have future dollars allocated towards Favors and Haywood and need to start building a team that is at least sensible. The Jazz have 2 nice big men in Favors and Kanter and some potential slashers in Burks and Exum. The team has some shooting in Burke + Haywoord, but could use more.

Mirza would be a nice fit in their rotation and allow for Exum to potentially maneuver into the paint and more room for Favors or Kanter to operate in the post. The added 2nd round pick adds some potential for Utah's future.
PF E. Kanter/ M. Tetelovic
SF G. Haywood/ S. Novak
C D. Favors/ T. Booker
SG D. Exum/ R. Hood
PG T. Burke/ A. Burks

Why for BKN:
The Nets have some serious concerns in terms of their 4/5 depth. Brook Lopez is injury prone, KG is a shell of himself and likely can't play more than 15 MPG. While losing Mirza may hurt a tad, it's unclear how Hollins would use him in his rotation. It would behoove the Nets to get two more bigs, one finesse - one rim protector. Gobert and Evans have some real potential, but have been behind the Kanter/Favors tandem in Utah (and before that Millsap/Jefferson). Given the opportunity, these 2 can be some nice diamonds in the rough to give additional minutes to in BK.
PF KG/ J. Evans
SF A. Kirilenko/ B. Bognadavic
C B. Lopez/ R. Gobert
SG J. Johnson/ A. Anderson
PG D. Williams/ J. Jack

I like Gobert alot but this trade really doesnt make much sense for the Nets. PF is one of our biggest concerns, yet we are giving up our only true PF?

Where does Gobert fit when we already have 3 Starting Centers who we are trying to shoehorn into roles to find playing time w/ Lopez, Plumlee, and Garnett

This trade only further complicates our issue of too many centers and not enough PFs.

I'd do a Lopez/Mirza for Gobert/Evans swap if utah can absorb the salary. but i assume jazz wouldnt be interested

Prokorov · Post #19 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 10:01 pm

eitanr wrote:So of the 96 minutes when Lopez is healthy we can estimate the following 4/5 allocation:

Brook Lopez - 33
Mason Plumlee - 25
Mirza Tetelovic - 20
Kevin Garnett - 18

That's okay, but what is Lopez goes down to injury...where do those extra 33 minutes come from?

Add 5 to Mirza, and play AK47 28 at the 4? Then Joe/AA/BB split 96 between the 3 of them at the 2/3? I guess it all makes sense.

Plumlee and Mirzo both need to be playing more then 30 minutes. especially plumlee, who we are toying with putting at PF because we need to find ways to get him on the floor. Hollins said yestarday that garnett will see "certainly more then 18-20 minutes a night". its more like:

Lopez - 32
Plumlee - 30
Mirza - 30
KG - 22

i.e. - not enough minutes to go around.

Post #20 » by **Trader_Joe** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 10:07 pm

Prokorov wrote:
eitanr wrote:So of the 96 minutes when Lopez is healthy we can estimate the following 4/5 allocation:

Brook Lopez - 33
Mason Plumlee - 25
Mirza Tetelovic - 20
Kevin Garnett - 18

That's okay, but what is Lopez goes down to injury...where do those extra 33 minutes come from?

Add 5 to Mirza, and play AK47 28 at the 4? Then Joe/AA/BB split 96 between the 3 of them at the 2/3? I guess it all makes sense.

Plumlee and Mirzo both need to be playing more then 30 minutes. especially plumlee, who we are toying with putting at PF because we need to find ways to get him on the floor. Hollins said yestarday that garnett will see "certainly more then 18-20 minutes a night". its more like:

Lopez - 32
Plumlee - 30
Mirza - 30
KG - 22

i.e. - not enough minutes to go around.

Delusional!