Offseason Thread 7: A Tale Of Two Dragons

[JJ13]

Once again Babby and McD are out here playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers.

Now the name of the game will be stay healthy, improve the young dudes and look at the 2016 free agents. KD for example?

Bird rights will become even more important, so my guess is that we won't wait until '16 but rather try to be players at the deadline, or more likely in the offseason with our first round picks. Not sure there will be a lot of teams looking to unload stars with the jump in cap, but maybe those stars aren't the ones they want to build around with $20M+ maxes...if Portland struggles this year I could see them entertaining offers for Aldridge since he'll be a FA next year. Question is, would the Suns do 5-year max for LA?

I see a similar scenario with Horford who's a FA after 15/16...I'm not sure the Hawks would want to ink him to 5-year deal since they haven't exactly flourished with him. BTW I don't think Horford is max unless he shows he can stay healthy for majority of the next season(s).

The Morrii + picks for either of these guys would work, OR if the FO sticks with the Morrii, I could see Noah (similar contract as Horford) or Ibaka being on the radar to improve our bigs at C vs PF. Serge would be awesome but he has a really good contract ($12-13/yr going through '17) and is only 25 years old, which blows my mind.

[thamadkant]

Max contracts are always a percentage of the salary cap the year they sign right? Meaning that even if the salary cap raises to 90 million next year, they still be making roughly the same as the previous year. Is that correct?

Yeah. So if even if we lock up Dragic for the max next year, the cap will keep rising and we could potentially afford another close to max FA

Dragic is not getting max. I don't care how much Suns fans love him there has to be a limit.

I mean signing his bro has to count for some financial mercy on his part.

Yeah.
Truth is the suns don't have a max player.
Even if the cap goes up, smart GMs should still aim to use the space correctly.
At this time, I think Dragic is worth same as Bledsoe which is around 13-14 a year.

To me the new deal only really helps teams like Cavs with multiple max players, Love can now get his 17-18 million a year and James can get his 25-28 million a year. James definitely worth that much.

Kobe's 25+ million a year won't be crippling Lakers as much anymore...
Lakers obviously knew a while ago the cap was going up.

[King4Day]

With Thomas and Bledsoe on board, there's no way Dragic will look like a max player next summer. I think he'll get a contract comparable to Bledsoe, tops.

[NavLDO]

I think Dragic gets more than Bled...It's his last opportunity to get that big paycheck, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he signed for an average of $17M per...and that will STILL be a deal in two years when the cap goes up.

I mean, think about it. If we get Dragic locked up for 5 years, that will have us set for the following 3 years ('15-18) with our primary pieces--the Morii, Dragics, EB, Warren, and IT--(plus Goodwin, Len, Bogdan, and Ennis, if we want, as they will still be under contract as well).

Then, if we're smart, we use other guys as trade bait, not the guys we have on reasonable contracts, so we can trade/sign that top 20 player, whoever that is, because we can afford a Max then. And by then, we know if Len will be the guy we want at the 5, or do we trade for one with:

LAL Pick
Our Pick
Minny Pick
Expiring PJ
Expiring Plumlee
Len
Goodwin
Bogdan
Ennis

Somewhere, with all of that, is a trade to be made, right? Add that to our core, again, the Dragics, Morii, EB, IT and Warren--1,2,3, and 4 locked up...just need that All Pro 5!!! (I'm still convinced Kieff ends up being a top 8-10 PF--I'm optimistic like that! ) And we'll have all the cap space we need to make it happen! Thank you, McD/Sarver/Babby!!!

[Blackification]

Alex Len, Phoenix: The second-year center was never healthy last season, and he didn't get off to a great start this summer when he broke his left pinky after just one game at July's Las Vegas Summer League. But after a month in a cast, Len was able to catch the ball again, and he's been using the added muscle he put on during the offseason to good use so far.

There are no expectations on Len at the moment as he'll back up Miles Plumlee when the season begins.

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/features/d ... index.html

Len was on Nba.coms top 10 not well known guys to watch based on people they talked to around the league. Interesting.

[thamadkant]

Len with a muscular frame would be an intimidating sight.

The guy aint no David Robinson, but he looks wider and bigger than Dwight Howard... I'm pretty sure Len will be approaching 7'2 by now... he looks like a legit 7'1 guy atleast.

Offensively, he can be a handful, if he is aggressive... defensively he just needs to hold his position and hands up straight and he'd alter many shots.

[LukasBMW]

If Len develops into a 18/10 guy who plays defense, and Markieff plays consistently, we have our front court of the future.

Hell, even if Len can pull 12/10 with the ability to have a 20/12 game, we may be OK

Bledsoe - 20
Dragic - 20
Tucker - 10
Markieff - 17
Len - 12

That's 79 points right there. Add in 14 from Thomas, 14 from Green and were at 107. That doesn't even include Marcus, Plumlee, or Archie,

[aIvin adams]

If Len develops into a 18/10 guy who plays defense...

a 7'1 athletic center who puts up 18/10 and defends...

with our guards..

we'd be in the Finals

[Sunsdeuce]

Well it's already beginning! Players already planning lockout, whining about how they got shafted with the last CBA. Sorry but if you make millions of dollars to play a child's game that most people play as a hobby, you have zero to complain about. Zero. I mean many of the players (and it's proven) can barely read yet make millions and they have the nerve to complain. If anyone has has something to complain about it would be NFL players. They have to work their hardest every game. They could get cut the next game. Unlike nba players, they aren't guaranteed to get paid.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball ... 56424.html

I'll tell you this, if the players strike, I'll be pretty much done with the NBA. As much as the suns have been a big part of my childhood and have a very special place in my heart, it would kill me, but I can only take so much. When it's more about money than the love of basketball for these players, it's just not worth my time.


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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'll tell you this, if the players strike, I'll be pretty much done with the NBA.

I don't believe you.

Why not boycott the NBA because all the owners care about is money, hmm?

I don't mind the players making as much money as they do because of how hypercompetitive their field is. Exceptional talent warrants exceptional compensation, imo.

[Sunsdeuce]

I'll tell you this, if the players strike, I'll be pretty much done with the NBA.

I don't believe you.

Why not boycott the NBA because all the owners care about is money, hmm?

I don't mind the players making as much money as they do because of how hypercompetitive their field is. Exceptional talent warrants exceptional compensation, imo.

Nba owners are called "owners" for a reason. They have "invested" their money into their business. So yes owners should want to make money. The players invest nothing. Just say "give me." I laugh when players say they are "businessmen."

NFL is 10x more competitive field than the NBA. An NFL player may be a star one day but an injury happens one game and a bench player out performs you, your out of a job.

Not saying I would be "completely" done, just pretty much done. I'll catch a game here and there but won't be hardcore fan I am now. Definitely won't be paying crazy amounts of money to go to a game. And especially won't be paying $8 a beer, like I have so many times at america west, us airways arena, or whatever the arena is called now.


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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Not saying I would be "completely" done, just pretty much done. I'll catch a game here and their but won't be hardcore fan I am now.

OK. That's more reasonable.

[phrazbit]

I'll tell you this, if the players strike, I'll be pretty much done with the NBA.

I don't believe you.

Why not boycott the NBA because all the owners care about is money, hmm?

I don't mind the players making as much money as they do because of how hypercompetitive their field is. Exceptional talent warrants exceptional compensation, imo.

Nba owners are called "owners" for a reason. They have "invested" their money into their business. So yes owners should want to make money. The players invest nothing. Just say "give me." I laugh when players say they are "businessmen."

NFL is 10x more competitive field than the NBA. An NFL player may be a star one day but an injury happens one game and a bench player out performs you, your out of a job.

Not saying I would be "completely" done, just pretty much done. I'll catch a game here and there but won't be hardcore fan I am now. Definitely won't be paying crazy amounts of money to go to a game. And especially won't be paying $8 a beer, like I have so many times at america west, us airways arena, or whatever the arena is called now.


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Its fine that the owners have an investment, but in the traditional business sense the investors are the ones taking the risk, that is not the case in the NBA, especially under the current CBA, right now its the players taking all the risk.

This is a high profile business with an enormous guaranteed profit as an NBA owner. The players have every right to expect a significant jump in salaries, especially when they gave up so many concessions in the last CBA based on what by now was obviously bald faced lies and shady accounting by ownership.

If you were going to quit as a fan because of the greed then you should have quit during the last lockout, when teams what were making profits decided to screw over NBA fans and jeopardized a season in an effort to guarantee enormous profits.

[Sunsdeuce]

I don't believe you.

Why not boycott the NBA because all the owners care about is money, hmm?

I don't mind the players making as much money as they do because of how hypercompetitive their field is. Exceptional talent warrants exceptional compensation, imo.

Nba owners are called "owners" for a reason. They have "invested" their money into their business. So yes owners should want to make money. The players invest nothing. Just say "give me." I laugh when players say they are "businessmen."

NFL is 10x more competitive field than the NBA. An NFL player may be a star one day but an injury happens one game and a bench player out performs you, your out of a job.

Not saying I would be "completely" done, just pretty much done. I'll catch a game here and there but won't be hardcore fan I am now. Definitely won't be paying crazy amounts of money to go to a game. And especially won't be paying $8 a beer, like I have so many times at america west, us airways arena, or whatever the arena is called now.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Its fine that the owners have an investment, but in the traditional business sense the investors are the ones taking the risk, that is not the case in the NBA, especially under the current CBA, right now its the players taking all the risk.

This is a high profile business with an enormous guaranteed profit as an NBA owner. The players have every right to expect a significant jump in salaries, especially when they gave up so many concessions in the last CBA based on what by now was obviously bald faced lies and shady accounting by ownership.

If you were going to quit as a fan because of the greed then you should have quit during the last lockout, when teams what were making profits decided to screw over NBA fans and jeopardized a season in an effort to guarantee enormous profits.

You say the players are taking "all the risk." What risk? Risk involves putting "something" of value on the line, knowing that you could lose it all. Players do not come into the nba and put their personal money into the NBA, they collect the money. They have no risk.

If your idea of risk was reality, I'm in. Players come and go, the nba does not. Personally I'll watch any player in a suns uniform, even if it's a replacement player.

If you want to get mad because I don't feel the same way as you, cool.


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[bwgood77]

Well it's already beginning! Players already planning lockout, whining about how they got shafted with the last CBA. Sorry but if you make millions of dollars to play a child's game that most people play as a hobby, you have zero to complain about. Zero. I mean many of the players (and it's proven) can barely read yet make millions and they have the nerve to complain. If anyone has has something to complain about it would be NFL players. They have to work their hardest every game. They could get cut the next game. Unlike nba players, they aren't guaranteed to get paid.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball ... 56424.html

I'll tell you this, if the players strike, I'll be pretty much done with the NBA. As much as the suns have been a big part of my childhood and have a very special place in my heart, it would kill me, but I can only take so much. When it's more about money than the love of basketball for these players, it's just not worth my time.


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I won't be done with the nba or anything, but I agree. The worst part about it is the writers out there who side with the players. All this does is prolong lockouts when people like Bill Simmons write long articles about how the players are getting screwed. He and his bandwagon writers like Marc Stein feel the players should get all the revenue because THEY are the product and without them the owners have nothing.

I can understand their viewpoint but I agree that the owners had to (in most cases) build businesses and build their way to ultimately have the ability to own a team and they should be earning money by operating teams if they want to. Some teams even operate at losses. Not that many owners in the nba make more money from their teams (on an annual basis) than the highest paid players do in a year.

Also, everyone always talks about how much the owners make when someone decides to sell a team, but the majority of owners probably don't want to sell their teams. There are some owners who can't really afford to lose millions every year which is why when guys like Simmons continually harps on a team like OKC for not going into luxury tax territory to keep Harden just don't understand the full picture. Many of the owners also finance part of the purchase of their team and only put in a percentage of equity or split it with other investors so it's not quite as simple as people make it out to be.

The funny thing is, when the players go on strike or hold a season up, they ultimately will hurt themselves because most of the owners can afford to sit out than some of the players who spend all their money as it comes in. The really rich owners can afford to sit out as long as they want, and the owners who operate at losses are stopping their losses when a stoppage occurs, and they are the least likely to want to give into giving the players more anyway since they are already operating at losses.

The whole thing is obviously most frustrating for the fans because they miss out, but I absolutely hate it when writers with a large readership side with the players which probably only makes it last longer and the players don't end up getting a better cut anyway.

They are ALL already making a huge chunk out of a very large piece of pie so the players have ZERO to complain about.

[aIvin adams]

Well it's already beginning! Players already planning lockout, whining about how they got shafted with the last CBA. Sorry but if you make millions of dollars to play a child's game that most people play as a hobby, you have zero to complain about. Zero. I mean many of the players (and it's proven) can barely read yet make millions and they have the nerve to complain. If anyone has has something to complain about it would be NFL players. They have to work their hardest every game. They could get cut the next game. Unlike nba players, they aren't guaranteed to get paid.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball ... 56424.html

I'll tell you this, if the players strike, I'll be pretty much done with the NBA. As much as the suns have been a big part of my childhood and have a very special place in my heart, it would kill me, but I can only take so much. When it's more about money than the love of basketball for these players, it's just not worth my time.


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I won't be done with the nba or anything, but I agree. The worst part about it is the writers out there who side with the players. All this does is prolong lockouts when people like Bill Simmons write long articles about how the players are getting screwed. He and his bandwagon writers like Marc Stein feel the players should get all the revenue because THEY are the product and without them the owners have nothing.

I can understand their viewpoint but I agree that the owners had to (in most cases) build businesses and build their way to ultimately have the ability to own a team and they should be earning money by operating teams if they want to. Some teams even operate at losses. Not that many owners in the nba make more money from their teams (on an annual basis) than the highest paid players do in a year.

Also, everyone always talks about how much the owners make when someone decides to sell a team, but the majority of owners probably don't want to sell their teams. There are some owners who can't really afford to lose millions every year which is why when guys like Simmons continually harps on a team like OKC for not going into luxury tax territory to keep Harden just don't understand the full picture. Many of the owners also finance part of the purchase of their team and only put in a percentage of equity or split it with other investors so it's not quite as simple as people make it out to be.

The funny thing is, when the players go on strike or hold a season up, they ultimately will hurt themselves because most of the owners can afford to sit out than some of the players who spend all their money as it comes in. The really rich owners can afford to sit out as long as they want, and the owners who operate at losses are stopping their losses when a stoppage occurs, and they are the least likely to want to give into giving the players more anyway since they are already operating at losses.

The whole thing is obviously most frustrating for the fans because they miss out, but I absolutely hate it when writers with a large readership side with the players which probably only makes it last longer and the players don't end up getting a better cut anyway.

They are ALL already making a huge chunk out of a very large piece of pie so the players have ZERO to complain about.

i don't get the debate. the owners locked out the players last time, didn't they? they spewed bull reasons, didn't they?

i don't care to defend the players or the NBAPA. but the owners can suck an egg if they want an ounce of sympathy from me. don't screw yer fans over. don't lock out yer players. we get gorged on ticket prices, parking prices, beer prices, hot dog pr--- actually the bargain dogs are cool. anyway, i remember the 94 baseball lockout because my dad-- who was a die hard Dodgers fan-- stopped watching baseball. he never really came back as a baseball fan.

I blame the owners because they're the ones who are **** responsible by definition. they're the bosses. they're the ones whose job it is to create the entertainment that i pay exorbitant (extortionate) prices to watch.

don't blame the players. blame the bosses. even if the players deserve blame, then i would still blame the owners for not managing their businesses better.

and if they lockout in 2017 then i'll seriously start looking into following the euroleagues.

[thamadkant]

Owners = Employers

A high profitable ownership means secure jobs for staff, updated/modern facilities etc.
Gives back to the city and economy of that city via employement.


Players = Employees

They dont contribute to the community directly, they have entourages instead of proper staff who do a service and a job. They do not invest directly to the business which brings in jobs to the community... they invest for themselves and themselves primarily.



I side with the owners, because players who gets paid millions with 3-4 houses, 3-4 Ferraris, a couple of yachts, bank accounts to last their great grand children's children etc have very little if not, nothing, to strike about.
They have guaranteed contracts, so they can flat out stink up their performance and still get paid millions.

Owners arent completely innocent, but as stated above, they cater for the community better via providing employment to staff who are likely to be part of the community.

[Sunsdeuce]

Well it's already beginning!


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I won't be done with the nba or anything, but I agree. The worst part about it is the writers out there who side with the players. All this does is prolong lockouts when people like Bill Simmons write long articles about how the players are getting screwed. He and his bandwagon writers like Marc Stein feel the players should get all the revenue because THEY are the product and without them the owners have nothing.

I can understand their viewpoint but I agree that the owners had to (in most cases) build businesses and build their way to ultimately have the ability to own a team and they should be earning money by operating teams if they want to. Some teams even operate at losses. Not that many owners in the nba make more money from their teams (on an annual basis) than the highest paid players do in a year.

Also, everyone always talks about how much the owners make when someone decides to sell a team, but the majority of owners probably don't want to sell their teams. There are some owners who can't really afford to lose millions every year which is why when guys like Simmons continually harps on a team like OKC for not going into luxury tax territory to keep Harden just don't understand the full picture. Many of the owners also finance part of the purchase of their team and only put in a percentage of equity or split it with other investors so it's not quite as simple as people make it out to be.

The funny thing is, when the players go on strike or hold a season up, they ultimately will hurt themselves because most of the owners can afford to sit out than some of the players who spend all their money as it comes in. The really rich owners can afford to sit out as long as they want, and the owners who operate at losses are stopping their losses when a stoppage occurs, and they are the least likely to want to give into giving the players more anyway since they are already operating at losses.

The whole thing is obviously most frustrating for the fans because they miss out, but I absolutely hate it when writers with a large readership side with the players which probably only makes it last longer and the players don't end up getting a better cut anyway.

They are ALL already making a huge chunk out of a very large piece of pie so the players have ZERO to complain about.

Great write up. Totally agree.


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[Sunsdeuce]

Owners = Employers

A high profitable ownership means secure jobs for staff, updated/modern facilities etc.
Gives back to the city and economy of that city via employement.


Players = Employees

They dont contribute to the community directly, they have entourages instead of proper staff who do a service and a job. They do not invest directly to the business which brings in jobs to the community... they invest for themselves and themselves primarily.



I side with the owners, because players who gets paid millions with 3-4 houses, 3-4 Ferraris, a couple of yachts, bank accounts to last their great grand children's children etc have very little if not, nothing, to strike about.
They have guaranteed contracts, so they can flat out stink up their performance and still get paid millions.

Owners arent completely innocent, but as stated above, they cater for the community better via providing employment to staff who are likely to be part of the community.

Great write up number 2! And totally agree.


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[Jdiddy701]

Espo giving Gerald Green a nickname of the Four Finger Assassin is just disrespectful and dumb. I cannot stand him.


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