Offseason Thread 7: A Tale Of Two Dragons

[thamadkant]

Faried is a Marion-like in terms of his size and rebounding ability. Not so much ability defending the the post or the perimeter though.

He would be a 15/11 guy though in the Suns system.. only if he could maybe add some strength to be able to hold his position inside to improve his interior defense as well as guard the perimter more which I think has the agility to do.... he could be Rodman-lite (very lite).

[Jdiddy701]

Keef owns Faried every time they play.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[phrazbit]

I think Faried is worth much more than what Kieff is and that he would go bonkers getting to fly up and down the court in our system. I think Faried probably would have gotten a max deal if he were on the open market, while Kieff IMO would have been looking a 7-8 mil on a 3-4 year deal.

So basically, you feel that Denver got a deal on Faried's contract, and we paid market price, then. That's definitely on the opposite side of what I figured.

I think Kieff, had he hit FA after this upcoming season after being a starter, and assuming he doesn't regress, would expect he'd be worth more. This season, he may have warranted $8M per, but I think next season, that definitely changes.

I will say that Denver did well in the draft that year. Anytime you can get a $12M per worthy big with the 22nd pick, you've done well for yourself. And considering the Morii were drafted 13 and 14 that same year, speaks volumes for how Faried has developed, that's for sure, as neither Kieff, nor Marcus, were starters.

Yeah, I think Denver got a deal, Faried is a more accomplished player he has some clear strengths as a player, he is really athletic he rebounds very well and the guy was just a monster at the FIBA tourny. Morris is a nice player but has yet to prove himself as even a viable starter and is has not shown himself to have any good/great areas to his game.

We got Kieff at market value and I think we payed waaaaay above market for Marcus, who is a replacement level player.

[bwgood77]

Marcus' improvement may come this year, his third year playing in the league, as it did with Kieff. I wouldn't totally judge him yet. If he doesn't improve, perhaps it was an overpay.

[Sunsdeuce]

Marcus' improvement may come this year, his third year playing in the league, as it did with Kieff. I wouldn't totally judge him yet. If he doesn't improve, perhaps it was an overpay.

I think a big problem for Marcus was getting the minutes. I'm probably in the minority but I think he out performed tucker when given consistent minutes. I mean he already put up practically the same numbers as tucker playing 10 minutes fewer than tucker.

I think you almost have to cut Tucker's minutes if you want development and consistent numbers from Marcus and now warren. It's also a reason I hope tucker is gone within a year/year and a half.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Jdiddy701]

Watching the Suns practice on NBATV, Suns need to extend Green ASAP. He's loved by everyone. I wonder if he's going to worry about the money or settle for a little less to stay with a team that he ranks so high of. Suns need this guy in their future plans


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[bwgood77]

Marcus' improvement may come this year, his third year playing in the league, as it did with Kieff. I wouldn't totally judge him yet. If he doesn't improve, perhaps it was an overpay.

I think a big problem for Marcus was getting the minutes. I'm probably in the minority but I think he out performed tucker when given consistent minutes. I mean he already put up practically the same numbers as tucker playing 10 minutes fewer than tucker.

I think you almost have to cut Tucker's minutes if you want development and consistent numbers from Marcus and now warren. It's also a reason I hope tucker is gone within a year/year and a half.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

It seems like part of the problem is that we seem to be overloaded at 1-3. I don't know how it will work, but no one's #s will look as good as they would if they got the minutes they would get on other teams. I imagine Marcus plays more 4 this year which should help, but I don't know about the other guys.

It's a constant good thing/bad thing as well because I like all the guys but we are a bit overloaded so it depletes their trade value and then you also have half of the people on this board saying their stats are not that great. It's nice to have assets, but if you can't showcase them it hurts their trade value.

[phrazbit]

Marcus' improvement may come this year, his third year playing in the league, as it did with Kieff. I wouldn't totally judge him yet. If he doesn't improve, perhaps it was an overpay.

Hopefully he does. But I don't buy this counting as his "3rd year", this is his 4th, he didnt play much as a rookie because he was putrid, but he was still in the league. I also am not wild about paying someone based on the hope of them becoming something they have not shown themselves to be.

[Sunsdeuce]

Marcus' improvement may come this year, his third year playing in the league, as it did with Kieff. I wouldn't totally judge him yet. If he doesn't improve, perhaps it was an overpay.

I think a big problem for Marcus was getting the minutes. I'm probably in the minority but I think he out performed tucker when given consistent minutes. I mean he already put up practically the same numbers as tucker playing 10 minutes fewer than tucker.

I think you almost have to cut Tucker's minutes if you want development and consistent numbers from Marcus and now warren. It's also a reason I hope tucker is gone within a year/year and a half.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

It seems like part of the problem is that we seem to be overloaded at 1-3. I don't know how it will work, but no one's #s will look as good as they would if they got the minutes they would get on other teams. I imagine Marcus plays more 4 this year which should help, but I don't know about the other guys.

It's a constant good thing/bad thing as well because I like all the guys but we are a bit overloaded so it depletes their trade value and then you also have half of the people on this board saying their stats are not that great. It's nice to have assets, but if you can't showcase them it hurts their trade value.

Also having fewer and inconsistent minutes makes it harder on players to find rhythm. Players need enough time on the court to get comfortable with the flow. Very few players are decent while only playing inconsistent minutes.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[NaturalBuns]

Marcus' improvement may come this year, his third year playing in the league, as it did with Kieff. I wouldn't totally judge him yet. If he doesn't improve, perhaps it was an overpay.

I think a big problem for Marcus was getting the minutes. I'm probably in the minority but I think he out performed tucker when given consistent minutes. I mean he already put up practically the same numbers as tucker playing 10 minutes fewer than tucker.

I think you almost have to cut Tucker's minutes if you want development and consistent numbers from Marcus and now warren. It's also a reason I hope tucker is gone within a year/year and a half.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Lol did the cavs game from last year not point out how important tucker was last year.

I can careless if marcus is a "better scorer"
Suns have plenty of those Dragic,Thomas,Green,Bledsoe,Markieff... Maybe warren

[Frank Lee]

What we lack in star power we will make up in depth. We are going ten deep with a ballstothewalls squad based on hustle and pressure. We have the guards/forwards to constantly push a pace that will leave many teams gasping.

thats my take on our upcoming season.

[SlovenianDragon]

If we got rid of Tucker we would have no defense. The star play on every team would take a dump on us.

[No-Man]

without Len I will probably bring Markieff off the bench and start Tolliver.

[SlovenianDragon]

without Len I will probably bring Markieff off the bench and start Tolliver.

Your opinion of the suns rotation and depth chart is spot on.

[JTrain]

I assume Green will start the first three games. It will be interesting to see how we use Marcus. I'm assuming TJ will get decent minutes at the 3 before PJ returns.

[No-Man]

I assume Green will start the first three games. It will be interesting to see how we use Marcus. I'm assuming TJ will get decent minutes at the 3 before PJ returns.

Bledsoe-Thomas
Dragic-Dragic
Green-Warren
Tolliver-Morris
Plumlee-Morris

easily

[SlovenianDragon]

I assume Green will start the first three games. It will be interesting to see how we use Marcus. I'm assuming TJ will get decent minutes at the 3 before PJ returns.

Bledsoe-Thomas
Dragic-Dragic
Green-Warren
Tolliver-Morris
Plumlee-Morris

easily

Not even close...Im not sure if you are trolling or what....

[NTB]

I assume Green will start the first three games. It will be interesting to see how we use Marcus. I'm assuming TJ will get decent minutes at the 3 before PJ returns.

Bledsoe-Thomas
Dragic-Dragic
Green-Warren
Tolliver-Morris
Plumlee-Morris

easily

Markieff is our starter PF.

By the way where can I watch the full version of NBATV's Real Camp thing?

[bwgood77]

Marcus' improvement may come this year, his third year playing in the league, as it did with Kieff. I wouldn't totally judge him yet. If he doesn't improve, perhaps it was an overpay.

Hopefully he does. But I don't buy this counting as his "3rd year", this is his 4th, he didnt play much as a rookie because he was putrid, but he was still in the league. I also am not wild about paying someone based on the hope of them becoming something they have not shown themselves to be.

I'm not wild about it either but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that Kieff is that much better when Marcus was better in college. Sure, the Suns thought he would be better, or at least a better fit and often times (more times than not) college success doesn't translate to the nba. And rarely are twins equally as good. But in their case it doesn't totally seem the discrepancy in their talent should be THAT much different. I'm not saying you are not right, but that could be part of the front staff's thinking, that playing against top level NBA talent in NBA games gives you more of an opportunity to grow as a player quicker, and Marcus didn't quite have that opportunity with the Rockets because of their depth.

Perhaps it was putrid like you say, but he wasn't putrid related to Kieff as seniors at Kansas. The Rockets just had better players in front of him. Different players blossom at different times, and more often than not it's because they have the opportunity to play against the best of the best and realize the hard work it takes to earn playing time. Maybe their separation had a bigger impact on Marcus and he was depressed and didn't work hard that first year. I don't know the answers to all these questions but they are all possibilities. Kieff has gotten more playing time.

Noel, Parker and Payton may evolve quicker as rookies and players than other guys that won't play as much because they are playing night in and night out against top shelf nba talent in games. Many believe this is the case and to some extent, perhaps a very large one, this is probably the case. A guy like Vonleh may end up one of the best players out of this draft a few years down the line, but maybe in years one and two it doesn't seem to be the case because Charlotte is trying to be a playoff contender and he is behind some other guys.

[bwgood77]

As for Fischella mentioning Tolliver starting, I don't think he will, at least not most of the time or maybe ever, but I do think there is a good chance Dragic plays a little better with him because he seems to be more effective with a stretch four, or at least he was with Frye but I'm sure lineups once subbing starts will be fluid and different players will play together based on chemistry with different units.