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The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread

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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#621 » by catch20two » Wed Oct 8, 2014 1:52 am

jdm3 wrote:
catch20two wrote:
jdm3 wrote:Marvin will be better for us than McBob would be now that we don't need the passing. Messy22 won't admit he was wrong even if he is. Those are my predictions.

Messy Marv will only be better than Mcbob for us if he make 3s at a high clip. Something I'm not too certain of since the Marvin Williams I watched in Atlanta couldn't really shoot. I haven't kept up with him over the past 2-3 years but I'm sure he's still the same pure trash that only make the team worse when he's on the floor only because of his draft status. I respect you protecting him as a Tarheel fan.

I am am Heel fan but that has nothing to do with it. I am looking at what he has done the last few years when he has been shooting more often and better from three than McRoberts. He also has better steal, point and rebound numbers per 36. If you would put aside your bias and look at recent results you would see he has settled into a much different player than his first years.

Okay. I'll try to put aside my bias and wait until actual game results. I prefer to be wrong in this case since he's been prematurely named our starting PF and that's unlikely to change for a few months at the least.
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#622 » by BlackOutBuzz » Wed Oct 8, 2014 2:44 am

fatlever wrote:ok, now i know i shouldnt take anything catch22 says about marvin this year seriously. the bias is strong.

the current hater list:
cant listen to masterichiro about anything related to mkg.
cant listen to ball teacher about anything related to kemba.
cant listen to brother dave about anything related to al jefferson.
cant listen to catch22 about anything related to marvin williams.
pretty much half the board about anything related to gerald henderson.


**** that Maxiell guy. Being all 15th man riding coattails and whatnot.

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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#623 » by TheKingofSting » Wed Oct 8, 2014 2:46 am

Don't listen to me about Brad Beal. :)
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#624 » by countryboi » Wed Oct 8, 2014 1:10 pm

BlackOutBobcat wrote:
fatlever wrote:ok, now i know i shouldnt take anything catch22 says about marvin this year seriously. the bias is strong.

the current hater list:
cant listen to masterichiro about anything related to mkg.
cant listen to ball teacher about anything related to kemba.
cant listen to brother dave about anything related to al jefferson.
cant listen to catch22 about anything related to marvin williams.
pretty much half the board about anything related to gerald henderson.


**** that Maxiell guy. Being all 15th man riding coattails and whatnot.

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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#625 » by HornetJail » Wed Oct 8, 2014 4:02 pm

BlackOutBobcat wrote:
fatlever wrote:ok, now i know i shouldnt take anything catch22 says about marvin this year seriously. the bias is strong.

the current hater list:
cant listen to masterichiro about anything related to mkg.
cant listen to ball teacher about anything related to kemba.
cant listen to brother dave about anything related to al jefferson.
cant listen to catch22 about anything related to marvin williams.
pretty much half the board about anything related to gerald henderson.


**** that Maxiell guy. Being all 15th man riding coattails and whatnot.

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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#626 » by mrknowitall215 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:56 pm

I'm not a fan of Marvin Williams being our starting PF, but I'm willing to take the wait-and-see approach. Even though I view him as predominantly a small forward, he does have enough size to play some power forward from length to strength. I'll be carefully monitoring how much of a positive and/or negative effect the team has with him on the floor in comparison to Josh McRoberts last season over the next couple months. Deservedly because Clifford entrusts it, his effect and production would have to go over enough sample size, so I'll give him until about mid-December
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#627 » by yosemiteben » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:08 pm

I agree with the approach of giving him a little time. I think he'll continue to adapt beyond mid-December, but I agree that it makes sense to hold back on criticisms at least until then.

I'm not sure what the reason is for comparing him to Josh though, unless the idea is that Josh provides a low benchmark of acceptable play. Josh didn't want the deal we offered, and whether or not we offered the type of deal we should have is something we aren't going to know until 2016 when we see what Cho accomplishes with the space he is building.
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#628 » by fatlever » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:28 pm

the one thing that i think we all can agree on is that marvin should have not the same role in our offense that mcroberts had last year. they are very different players and should be treated differently. it was frustrating to see both marvin (and zeller when he was in) spending so much time handling the ball at the top of the key. i guess clifford prioritizes pulling a big man away from jefferson over putting marvin in the strong side corner - but bringing an extra defender into al's space. we'll see...
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#629 » by EwingSweatsALot » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:43 pm

I believe Marvin can be useful in the starting rotation if he is used in the right way like a couple of the guys have said. I didn't get to watch the game, but from what every one is saying is that he is being put out of position by Clifford.

Williams and McRoberts are two totally different PFs, and putting Williams in McRoberts place is trying to put a square peg in a round hole. McRoberts shot his best from the top of the key and the right wing facing. Williams is best from the left wing and left corner. Both are horrendous on the opposite sides of the court. He needs to figure out a way to use our players at our strengths instead of just recycling the offense.

If Clifford and the coaches can't figure out another way to use Williams effectively in the way he works best then why in the hell did we sign him? Why sign a guy that doesn't fit what you want to do on offense, and if he doesn't fit why are you forcing him to be something he isn't?

Hopefully we see some progression as the year goes on.
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#630 » by JDR720 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:19 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/522480864576700416[/tweet]

Well that is bad.

for comparison our other PF's are

Zeller: 8-21
Maxiell: 3-7
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#631 » by HornetJail » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:27 pm

If Marvin struggles enough maybe we'll see Biz and Al playing at the same time!
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#632 » by mrknowitall215 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:33 pm

BizGilwalker wrote:If Marvin struggles enough maybe we'll see Biz and Al playing at the same time!


I'd give that a 0.1% chance of happening
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#633 » by mrknowitall215 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:37 pm

JDR720 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/522480864576700416[/tweet]

Well that is bad.

for comparison our other PF's are

Zeller: 8-21
Maxiell: 3-7


Biyombo is 6-14 and he didn't even play today
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#634 » by yosemiteben » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:55 pm

Lance is 10-29 (34%).

Don't mean nothing.
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#635 » by mrknowitall215 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:03 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Lance is 10-29 (34%).

Don't mean nothing.


It means something to me. It means that they are struggling to adapt to Clifford's system in the preseason. I'm sure they'll find their comfortability in time, but the concern is if it's later than sooner
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#636 » by yosemiteben » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:05 pm

mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Lance is 10-29 (34%).

Don't mean nothing.


It means something to me. It means that they are struggling to adapt to Clifford's system in the preseason

New guys have a hard time in preseason with new team and new coach. Shocker.

In that post-game presser that JDR posted in the Orlando game thread, Cliff says they haven't even practiced what to do when Al gets double teamed. They just need more time to learn the system.
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#637 » by mrknowitall215 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:19 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Lance is 10-29 (34%).

Don't mean nothing.


It means something to me. It means that they are struggling to adapt to Clifford's system in the preseason

New guys have a hard time in preseason with new team and new coach. Shocker.

In that post-game presser that JDR posted in the Orlando game thread, Cliff says they haven't even practiced what to do when Al gets double teamed. They just need more time to learn the system.


It's not a shocker at all, but I'm not going to just rest assured that they'll get it together once the regular season starts. It's going to be a process, and sometimes processes can be a slow process, and a slow process could end up being a slow start that lead to us fighting for a playoff spot rather than for home court advantage. That's the concern
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#638 » by yosemiteben » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:40 pm

So you're choosing to be concerned over a natural part of the learning process because you're worried it might take too long. That's fine. I guess that's the difference in pessimism vs. optimism.
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#639 » by mrknowitall215 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:48 pm

yosemiteben wrote:So you're choosing to be concerned over a natural part of the learning process because you're worried it might take too long. That's fine. I guess that's the difference in pessimism vs. optimism.


No, not every newly acquired player in the NBA has to struggle at the onset of being on his new team. There's too many examples around the NBA that I could use to account for that. It's just a little too naive for me to turn my head towards the struggles as if everything will be fine, because that's not always the case in these situations

Furthermore, there's no pessimism vs. optimism in my statements. I'm vehemently stating the truth, and that's that Marvin Williams (and Lance Stephenson) are struggling. Excuse me if everything must be sugarcoated
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Re: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread 

Post#640 » by yosemiteben » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:55 pm

Cool bro. Yeah I wouldn't rest assured that they'll get it together. Sugarcoating is for suckers. We'll probs miss home court advantage because Marvin can't his threes in preseason.

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