Stuckey: Pistons' Decline Started By Trading Away Billups

[Laimbeer]

Rodney Stuckey used Chauncey Billups as a mentor while both played with the Detroit Pistons.

The Indiana Pacers' new guard believes the Pistons' downspin both as a team and individually started from the franchise trading Chauncey Billups for Allen Iverson in 2008.

“Once Chauncey was traded, everything went downhill from there,” Stuckey said. “Chauncey was the glue who held everything together. Once he was traded, it was a domino effect. One thing after another. Something happened, then this happened, that happened. So it was tough, you know?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ay-Billups

I can remember how much promise Stuckey showed as a young combo guard off the bench behind Rip and Chauncey. Couldn't agree more with what he's saying.

[Snakebites]

Its undeniable.

The decline began when Chauncey was traded. We can demonstrate that.

Thing is, I'm not sure how long keeping him would have delayed that decline.

[DCintheD]

this was pretty obvious. sad thing is Dumars believed more in Stuckey than Stuckey himself...

[Redeemed]

Trading the declining Billups was the start of our decline. Inherent in that decision was the wrong headed thought that Stuckey was a viable replacement for Billups. Those two are things have to be seen as two sides of the same coin. When Stuckey points out the obvious, he can't stop short of the other side of the coin.

[chrbal]

Trading Chauncey was the worst part, weirdest was that they had just extended rip like a week before. You know you're trading Chauncey, Why Extend Rip?

[Billl]

I'd say the decline started when Larry left. They could still compete with Chauncey as the primary leader, but he just wasn't the unifying force that Larry was. Once Chauncey was traded, it came tumbling down fast.

[Hotmayo]

this was pretty obvious. sad thing is Dumars believed more in Stuckey than Stuckey himself...

His statement shows that stuckey didnt have what it took to ba a champi9n. Championship players dont look for excuses. They make their own success. **** stuckey

But trading Chauncey was stupid

[Hotmayo]

Trading Chauncey was the worst part, weirdest was that they had just extended rip like a week before. You know you're trading Chauncey, Why Extend Rip?

Bc joe knew.rip would follow chauncey to denver and joe wanted AI/RIP backcourt to work out long term

[MotownMadness]

Duh, Billups was the best floor general in the game at the time. He set the tempo and ran our offense so smoothly. It always felt like we had control of the game with him at the helm.

[Spider156]

Chauncey's value was at all time high at the moment of time. So much so that we got AI for him. I thought the trade was great as far as talent goes. Chauncey lost his Big Shot in Detroit by that time. When he went to Denver, they played a more free system which allowed him to score more. But I know Chauncey knew there was no chance of winning with that Denver team. It wasn't the trade that ruined us. It was AI and Rip. Both were selfish and Dumars should've seen that. AI was always the man in any team he went to as he's earned that role in the league. Rip has been on the Pistons and won a championship in Detroit. So what's to say that one is going to come off the bench? AI's pride was so high that he ruined his career. Rip's attitude was so bad that he ruined his career as well. Stuckey was given the reigns when he wasn't deserving of it and clearly was a failure to start with. He was lazy and didn't know what he was getting into, again Dumars fault but Stuckey takes some of the blame as well. In my opinion, it wasn't the trade that ruined us. It was how player's acted after the trade. Dumars faults are putting trust in Stuckey, the coach hiring (Curry, are you kidding me?), and what Dumars did with the money that he had. The last fault is the biggest mistake he's done. Gordon and CV were GARBAGE!! And that's the time Dumars lost his eye for talent.

[joeposh]

Trading the declining Billups was the start of our decline. Inherent in that decision was the wrong headed thought that Stuckey was a viable replacement for Billups. Those two are things have to be seen as two sides of the same coin. When Stuckey points out the obvious, he can't stop short of the other side of the coin.

This is dead on. Stuckey wants to rewrite history here by saying that the Billups trade was all about getting AI, but it wasn't. The Pistons knew Iverson could walk after that season, so worst case scenario it was a salary dump. The trade was primarily a vote of confidence in Stuckey by Dumars -- saying that he could take over the point and lead the Pistons to another streak of deep playoff runs. That wasn't just an inference, it was outwardly acknowledged at the time the trade went down.

While AI's short tenure in a Pistons uniform was undoubtedly a huge disappointment and contrast to Billups demeanor and leadership on and off the court, the thing that made this deal an outright disaster was Stuckey's inability to rise to the occasion. He could have been that leader on the court and in the locker room, but he didn't step up.

Dumars put the team on his back and he buckled.

[Dirtgrain]

I'd say the decline started when Larry left. They could still compete with Chauncey as the primary leader, but he just wasn't the unifying force that Larry was. Once Chauncey was traded, it came tumbling down fast.

Truth.

[Dirtgrain]

Chauncey had already earned the nickname I gave him: Launchey Brickups (sorry, I'm all too eager to post that). He was not the same player who won a championship. I felt like he was the key factor in the play of the rest of the team (a hunch--not a fact, necessarily). There was something about the cocky, casual way he brought the ball up the court that seemed to dictate the mental make-up of the team and the way they fell short his last few seasons. To be fairer, they all had lost something.

And I don't remember any of the main championship players having much success individually after the Billups trade? Is that memory accurate?

After Billup's trade, which did surprise me at the time, it became obvious that Rip should have not been re-signed (or that he should have been traded), because that crap was ugly.

Part of the problem was Dumar's handling of the Billups/Rip transactions. Billups, Prince and Rip were upset the way it went down, with Rip saying he had no knowledge of the Billups trade when Rip signed the contract. They felt like Dumars duped them. Maybe it was that discontent which made the team's fall so rapid. And it may have been that discontent which poisoned the team for several years (with the damned revolt and whatnot). Yeah, a better coach might have healed the team and the egos, but I'm not sure on that. Rip turned into a bitch.

And Larry Brown is a prima donna, demanding his ego be coaxed (this happened several places where he coached). I recall being pissed at Brown's demands (don't recall specifics now), and I did not blame Dumars for looking elsewhere (he just should have chosen that elsewhere better--and not pulled the shady stuff with Billups/Hamilton).

[Cowology]

We were in decline for several years when we traded Chauncey. It started 2003 with the drafting of Darko, followed by our inability to retain Memo (Arenas provision), losing Corliss in a salary dump and subsequent inability to add quality to our bench. Attrition was already catching up with us (see Big Ben).

We actually should have busted it up sooner when our players still had value. Trading Chauncey was a landmark event that signaled a change in the front offices direction, but the decline was happening regardless. And I still say it was a good trade; it's how we wasted that cap space that screwed us.

As for Stuckey... Let it go, dude. I wish him well, but he needs to worry about the Pacers.

[Snakebites]

Our decline started while our record was improving?

That's a neat trick.

[epheisey]

We were in decline for several years when we traded Chauncey. It started 2003 with the drafting of Darko, followed by our inability to retain Memo (Arenas provision), losing Corliss in a salary dump and subsequent inability to add quality to our bench. Attrition was already catching up with us (see Big Ben).

We actually should have busted it up sooner when our players still had value. Trading Chauncey was a landmark event that signaled a change in the front offices direction, but the decline was happening regardless. And I still say it was a good trade; it's how we wasted that cap space that screwed us.

As for Stuckey... Let it go, dude. I wish him well, but he needs to worry about the Pacers.

WHAT??!! The decline started and then we proceeded to win a championship after that?

[Liqourish]

We were in decline for several years when we traded Chauncey. It started 2003 with the drafting of Darko, followed by our inability to retain Memo (Arenas provision), losing Corliss in a salary dump and subsequent inability to add quality to our bench. Attrition was already catching up with us (see Big Ben).

We actually should have busted it up sooner when our players still had value. Trading Chauncey was a landmark event that signaled a change in the front offices direction, but the decline was happening regardless. And I still say it was a good trade; it's how we wasted that cap space that screwed us.

As for Stuckey... Let it go, dude. I wish him well, but he needs to worry about the Pacers.

I agree. We overachieved after LB left. The team was already on the decline, even though they won 60+ games. We all said so at the time. Losing LB and then watching Ben Wallace sign with the Bulls, was the defining moment for most. We knew the team was done. Trading Chauncey for a salary dump was just the final nail.

[tmorgan]

The makings of the decline started with Darko and the bad decisions, bad luck, and bad attitudes that followed.

Cow is right.

[princeofpalace]

LOL, Jesus Christ- we won a championship, and went to back to back finals while we were on the decline? That is some interesting logic

[JD43320]

I think Cow is simply using the wrong adjective to describe what the Darko pick actually meant. We weren't on the decline because of it. Wasting that 2003 pick was like discovering you had some sort of degenerative condition. The condition wasn't going to bring you down immediately since you were still in your prime but one of these years it's going to start eating away at you and eventually tear you down completely.