Offseason Thread 7: A Tale Of Two Dragons

[Sunsdeuce]

Tell Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars that

They also had some of the best bigs in the game! Dennis rodman, bill laimbeer, dantley, rick Mahorn. They were the bullies of their era.


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Hogwash ... nobody thinks of those guys as elite bigs during the 80's. Two elite guards and a bunch of role players got it done. What their bigs had was the hustle factor ... getting on the floor, battling inside, getting rebounds, and playing defense. That doesn't make them the best bigs. However, it is difficult to find players with that mentality to just do their job. Seems like most want to be the man on the team or score 20+ points. Three PJ Tucker types alongside Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas would be a formidable team.

Here's the list of elite for those years spanning the "Bad boys" era.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

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[Sunsdeuce]

They also had some of the best bigs in the game! Dennis rodman, bill laimbeer, dantley, rick Mahorn. They were the bullies of their era.


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Hogwash ... nobody thinks of those guys as elite bigs during the 80's. Two elite guards and a bunch of role players got it done. What their bigs had was the hustle factor ... getting on the floor, battling inside, getting rebounds, and playing defense. That doesn't make them the best bigs. However, it is difficult to find players with that mentality to just do their job. Seems like most want to be the man on the team or score 20+ points. Three PJ Tucker types alongside Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas would be a formidable team.

Here's the list of elite for those years spanning the "Bad boys" era.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

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LMAO, you have no idea what your talking about. They were badassss. Simple as that. As a collective unit they (bigs) were very imposing bullies. Their bigs were far better than anything the suns currently have. We have nothing in comparison to the pistons, bigs wise.

You need to go find some footage of the bad boy era. It would help you understand them way better.

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[SUN]

and they don't even know me


cuz i'm ballin like kobe

[Kerrsed]

When did the Worm get labeled as a big? He was a 6'7 SF.

[Sunsdeuce]

When did the Worm get labeled as a big? He was a 6'7 SF.

Come on kerrsed, your better than that. Probably the greatest rebounder in history. He played small forward (couple years) before locking himself into the power forward role. It's common knowledge rodman IS a power forward.

Charles Barkley is a big and he was only 6'6 (power forward).

"Another example of an effective power forward who does not fit the standard template is Dennis Rodman, who was able to out-rebound and defend rival power forwards despite being only 6 feet 7 inches (2.00 m) tall. Likewise, Charles Barkley was one of the most dominating power forwards, despite being generously listed at 6 feet 6 inches (1.98 m) he admits being closer to 6 feet 4 3/4 inches (1.95 m). Barkley's playing weight of roughly 252 pounds (114 kg) was, however, typical for the position."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_fo ... basketball)

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[SUN]

She's hot Kerrsed would bang/10

[bigfoot]

Hogwash ... nobody thinks of those guys as elite bigs during the 80's. Two elite guards and a bunch of role players got it done. What their bigs had was the hustle factor ... getting on the floor, battling inside, getting rebounds, and playing defense. That doesn't make them the best bigs. However, it is difficult to find players with that mentality to just do their job. Seems like most want to be the man on the team or score 20+ points. Three PJ Tucker types alongside Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas would be a formidable team.

Here's the list of elite for those years spanning the "Bad boys" era.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

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LMAO, you have no idea what your talking about. They were badassss. Simple as that. As a collective unit they (bigs) were very imposing bullies. Their bigs were far better than anything the suns currently have. We have nothing in comparison to the pistons, bigs wise.

You need to go find some footage of the bad boy era. It would help you understand them way better.

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You fail to address that fact that their bigs were just role players. A supporting cast for two elite guards and an elite sixth man guard in Vinnie "The Microwave" Johnson. Their bigs played a role ... hustle, rebound, and play defense. There was nothing elite about them which is your claim when you say they were some of the best bigs in the league. So you are saying they were as good as Ewing, Robinson, Olajuwan, McHale??? Now that is delusional.

Besides ... Detroit got away with their bad boy persona because the NBA allowed it. Flagrant fouls, suspensions for coming off the bench during brawls, suspensions for throwing punches ... none of that existed during their championship run. Hell guards back then had to deal with constant hand checking during that era which made playing defense even easier. You'll never see that type of play again in the NBA. Besides, Laimbeer was king of cheap shots and the ultimate p*ssy. He's that type of guy that would start a fight and then stand behind all his buddies when things got nasty.

[Kerrsed]

[letsgosuns]

When I see people on here compare the Suns to the 80's Pistons, I disagree. Okay, I understand the comparison that the best offensive players on the Pistons were the team's guards, and the Suns best offensive players are guards as well. However, this Phoenix Suns team is absolutely nothing like the 80's Pistons. Seriously, besides the guard comparison, they could not be further from each other. The Pistons had a historical defense and were called the Bad Boys for a reason. This Suns team biggest weakness is most likely going to be the interior defense, the opposite of the Pistons. Also, if people think that the Pistons bigs were not elite, they are kidding themselves. Dennis Rodman is arguably the greatest defending/rebounding, role-playing power forward in the history of basketball. And Bill Laimbeer was a crazy enforcer, plus he could drain threes.

Oh yeah, take a look at the honors for Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars.
Thomas: 1st team All-NBA three times, 2nd team All-NBA two times, 12 time All-Star
Dumars: 2nd team All-NBA one time, 3rd team All-NBA two times, 1st team All-Defense four times, 2nd team All-Defense one time, 6 time All-Star

So to summarize, Thomas was All-NBA five times and had 12 All-Star appearances. Dumars was All-NBA 3 times, All-Defense 5 times, and had 6 All-Star appearances.

On the flip side:
Goran Dragic: 3rd team All-NBA one time, 0 All-Star appearances
Eric Bledsoe: No All-NBA teams, 0 All-Star appearances

I think fans should relax with comparisons between the current Suns team and the 80's Pistons team.

[Scutt]

^ I agree with all of this. Not to mention the fact that Bill Laimbeer was a 4 time all star himself, so I wouldn't go so far as to label him as simply a role playing big. Those Pistons teams had multiple perennial all-stars and played elite defense. The Suns have none of that, so there is really no comparison.

[Sunsdeuce]

When I see people on here compare the Suns to the 80's Pistons, I disagree. Okay, I understand the comparison that the best offensive players on the Pistons were the team's guards, and the Suns best offensive players are guards as well. However, this Phoenix Suns team is absolutely nothing like the 80's Pistons. Seriously, besides the guard comparison, they could not be further from each other. The Pistons had a historical defense and were called the Bad Boys for a reason. This Suns team biggest weakness is most likely going to be the interior defense, the opposite of the Pistons. Also, if people think that the Pistons bigs were not elite, they are kidding themselves. Dennis Rodman is arguably the greatest defending/rebounding, role-playing power forward in the history of basketball. And Bill Laimbeer was a crazy enforcer, plus he could drain threes.

Oh yeah, take a look at the honors for Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars.
Thomas: 1st team All-NBA three times, 2nd team All-NBA two times, 12 time All-Star
Dumars: 2nd team All-NBA one time, 3rd team All-NBA two times, 1st team All-Defense four times, 2nd team All-Defense one time, 6 time All-Star

So to summarize, Thomas was All-NBA five times and had 12 All-Star appearances. Dumars was All-NBA 3 times, All-Defense 5 times, and had 6 All-Star appearances.

On the flip side:
Goran Dragic: 3rd team All-NBA one time, 0 All-Star appearances
Eric Bledsoe: No All-NBA teams, 0 All-Star appearances

I think fans should relax with comparisons between the current Suns team and the 80's Pistons team.

Thank you!!!!! Thank you!!! Thank you!!!
Finally someone who actually knows about the pistons! We have almost nothing in common with the pistons (except maybe quality guards).
Some people just want to quote stats and have no idea what they are talking about (see above posts, lmao).

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[Kerrsed]

The Pistons comparison was rather comical. The Bad Boys were known for their elite defense, and our best defender is.... well.....PJ Tucker. Who is our 2nd best defender? Bledsoe? Tucker isnt close to being considered one of the best defenders in the league, and yet on our team there is a huge drop-off after him when it comes to defense.

[b-ball forever]

But we have Isaiah Thomas.

Obvious comparison is obvious!

http://nypost.com/2012/02/16/kings-guar ... rden-fans/

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxoDLXPiNo[/youtube]

[phrazbit]

The Pistons comparison was rather comical. The Bad Boys were known for their elite defense, and our best defender is.... well.....PJ Tucker. Who is our 2nd best defender? Bledsoe? Tucker isnt close to being considered one of the best defenders in the league, and yet on our team there is a huge drop-off after him when it comes to defense.

Our best defender is Bledsoe, and he is considered one of the best defenders in the league. After him is Tucker.

[lilfishi22]

I consider Tucker a better defender than Bledsoe. Bledsoe gets a lot more press from his highlight blocks and the fact that there aren't many good defenders at the PG position.

[JMac1]

Our 3 best players are all combo guards and that is not a recipe for success in the NBA.

Tell Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars that

It wasn't suppose to be a Pistons overall comparison; but it was meant to say you can build a team around your best players being combo guards.

We have a great foundation with our guards, plus we have to micro-waves-Green and Thomas-so give us time to fill in the blanks.

[Scutt]

Our 3 best players are all combo guards and that is not a recipe for success in the NBA.

Tell Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars that

It wasn't suppose to be a Pistons overall comparison; but it was meant to say you can build a team around your best players being combo guards.

We have a great foundation with our guards, plus we have to micro-waves-Green and Thomas-so give us time to fill in the blanks.

You are trying to compare two hall of fame guards to what the Suns have. You really don't see the difference in those pairs? Please exain how you think the Suns can be contenders with Dragic, Bledsoe, and IT as our best players.


Yes, you can build a contending team with combo guards, when the two guards are perennial all stars and future hall of famers and there are all star bigs on the roster too, but that's not what the Suns have. Our guards are not even allstars, and Bledsoe is really the only one that I see having the potential to be a perennial all star.

EDIT : I honestly believe Archie Goodwin has all star potential, I just don't have any faith in our front office when it comes to developing young players. I get the feeling the Suns would give up on Goodwin and say screw the big picture, if they could get a piece that helps them make the 8th seed this year. Just like we gave up on Dragic, so we could bring in Aaron Brooks and try to make the 8th seed. Now we have brought in IT.

[JTrain]

I say we get all-stars at every position. I think we can compete for a title then.

[thamadkant]

Hogwash ... nobody thinks of those guys as elite bigs during the 80's. Two elite guards and a bunch of role players got it done. What their bigs had was the hustle factor ... getting on the floor, battling inside, getting rebounds, and playing defense. That doesn't make them the best bigs. However, it is difficult to find players with that mentality to just do their job. Seems like most want to be the man on the team or score 20+ points. Three PJ Tucker types alongside Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas would be a formidable team.

Here's the list of elite for those years spanning the "Bad boys" era.

If PJ Tucker came in at 6'8, 6'9, 6'11... yes that team would be formidable indeed along side Bledsoe, Dragic etc.


A Laimbeer, Rodman, Mahorn lineup today would be considered the best interior defense in the NBA.

[lilfishi22]

Tell Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars that

It wasn't suppose to be a Pistons overall comparison; but it was meant to say you can build a team around your best players being combo guards.

We have a great foundation with our guards, plus we have to micro-waves-Green and Thomas-so give us time to fill in the blanks.

Your post suggest that because the Pistons had two hof guards and won a title, that the Suns can do the same with Dragic and Bledsoe as their best players. You really don't see the difference in those pairs? Please exain how you think the Suns can be contenders with Dragic, Bledsoe, and IT as our best players.


Yes, you can build a team with combo guards, when the two guards are perennial all stars and future hall of famers, but that's not what the Suns have. Our guards are not even allstars

It's a different era and what worked back may not work now. But, what wouldn't work then, may possibly work now. I'm not making an argument that we have a championship team because we have two good combo guards and the Bad Boy Pistons also had two great combo guards but when we can win 48 games with a bunch of youngins and no superstar, I think we can make an argument that we have a solid foundation to build off.

Coming off a 48 win season with our 2nd best player injured for half the season, I don't see why we can't be one solid big man away from being a top seeded WC team.