Why Marcus Smart should start at SG

Post #221 » by **Slartibartfast** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:18 pm

Banks2Pierce wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:No sugarcoating it - Marcus has been a massive scoring dud in the preseason. Not getting to the rim in the halfcourt or transition and not really doing anything scoring wise other than launching 3's to the tune of 19%. On a per minute basis, he's scoring less than Phil Pressey.

The majority of his scoring at the college level was with the pick and roll. Can't recall too many of those being run for him so far in the preseason. Turner's been dominating the ball. I don't know if this is by design or if Smart is being passive or what, but it is a little weird that I can only recall one or two attempts at the rim in the halfcourt for the first four games. He didn't do it a lot in summer league either.

Yeah, Turner has been seeing more pick and rolls. And AB has been vacuuming shots from everybody. But Smart is not aggressive with the possessions he has had. He's lingering on the perimeter on and off the ball. Nor is he mixing with the bigs on the boards like he did at OK St.

GuyClinch · Post #222 » by **GuyClinch** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:13 am

Marcus has to earn the backup point spot at this point - so that should be his goal. His offensive game isn't good enough for 2 guard - but hopefully he is working on that.. Marcus isn't showing us much - but the preseason is not even over...

DarkAzcura · Post #223 » by **DarkAzcura** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:52 am

GuyClinch wrote:Marcus has to earn the backup point spot at this point - so that should be his goal. His offensive game isn't good enough for 2 guard - but hopefully he is working on that.. Marcus isn't showing us much - but the preseason is not even over...

Defense and passing ability..? He's already proven to be much more impactful than Pressey overall just for superior size and defense. His playmaking ability is good enough, and he won't shoot nearly as bad as Pressey did last year.

GuyClinch · Post #224 » by **GuyClinch** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:04 am

Not showing us much on offense.. I should have written. You can't earn a starting gig in the backcourt with defensive play. The only spot a team can SOMETIMES carry a defensive player on is at the center spot. There are just too many good athletes in the NBA for a bit of hustle to get you a starting gig at an important offensive position.

Your SG, SF and PG have to be able to create offense nowadays. These are the guys you look to be 'go-to' guys. In addition you want good shooting out of them. So there is just a lot of demands for a coach on the offensive side of the ball.

DarkAzcura · Post #225 » by **DarkAzcura** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:08 am

GuyClinch wrote:Not showing us much on offense.. I should have written. You can't earn a starting gig in the backcourt with defensive play. The only spot a team can SOMETIMES carry a defensive player on is at the center spot. There are just too many good athletes in the NBA for a bit of hustle to get you a starting gig at an important offensive position.

Your SG, SF and PG have to be able to create offense nowadays. These are the guys you look to be 'go-to' guys. In addition you want good shooting out of them. So there is just a lot of demands for a coach on the offensive side of the ball.

I wasn't talking about starting. You said he has to earn a backup role at this point. I disagree with that. You can be a primary backup PG if your defense and playmaking ability is at Smart's current level.

shawn unkempt · Post #226 » by **shawn unkempt** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:28 am

I definitely thought he'd be much better at attacking the rim than we've seen so far. I don't buy that they're holding him back so he develops his outside shot, if he could do it well they'd be trying to incorporate it into the offense. I'm not that worried yet though, I think they'll find ways to use him more effectively as the season goes on.

ballup · Post #227 » by **ballup** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:18 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Not showing us much on offense.. I should have written. You can't earn a starting gig in the backcourt with defensive play. The only spot a team can SOMETIMES carry a defensive player on is at the center spot. There are just too many good athletes in the NBA for a bit of hustle to get you a starting gig at an important offensive position.

Your SG, SF and PG have to be able to create offense nowadays. These are the guys you look to be 'go-to' guys. In addition you want good shooting out of them. So there is just a lot of demands for a coach on the offensive side of the ball.

Pat Bev, MKG, and TA are disappointed that you forgot about them. The former, the best shooter among them, is an above average shooter.

GuyClinch · Post #228 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:12 am

TA comes off the bench - and was a pretty good scorer at times. Marcus is going to have to do a lot better offensively before he starts for anyone - ever. It's as simple as that. Let's hope he picks it up as the season goes on..

Danny will be bitterly disappointed if Smart shoots like 41% on the season..

VeryMuchWoke · Post #229 » by **VeryMuchWoke** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:41 am

GuyClinch wrote:TA comes off the bench - and was a pretty good scorer at times. Marcus is going to have to do a lot better offensively before he starts for anyone - ever. It's as simple as that. Let's hope he picks it up as the season goes on..

Danny will be bitterly disappointed if Smart shoots like 41% on the season..

I think his analysis of Smart's play will be more sophisticated than that. Ainge and Stevens really didn't seem to mind Sullinger shooting 27% from 3 last year. Marcus is in a similar situation, he needs to extend his range a bit and fine tune his shooting motion. If he takes and misses a lot of threes I don't see that setting off alarm bells.

Rondo shot just 42% as a rookie, but he was still the guy Ainge was holding out in the KG deal.

However, starting Marcus at SG next to Rondo doesn't look like the best plan at this point, at least not if we want to win games.

ballup · Post #230 » by **ballup** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:30 am

GuyClinch wrote:TA comes off the bench - and was a pretty good scorer at times. Marcus is going to have to do a lot better offensively before he starts for anyone - ever. It's as simple as that. Let's hope he picks it up as the season goes on..

Danny will be bitterly disappointed if Smart shoots like 41% on the season..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html
He started for good portions of the last few seasons. He even started a full season in 2012-2013. TA was never a great scorer. He was limited to drives and cuts and he never really developed a shot. Regardless, your claim of a defensive perimeter player not being able to earn a starter role is just not true.

ryaningf · Post #231 » by **ryaningf** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:25 pm

Great article w/#s that explores ways in which to describe how a PG plays the PG position. Might be a useful addition to this conversation:

http://nyloncalculus.com/2014/10/16/putting-point-guards-box/

Not sure where Marcus will fall, I'd suppose somewhere around "jack of all trades" to "scoring point" but that probably won't happen until years 3-5. Right now, he's hardly driving and not making any threes.

Rondo comes out as "drive and kick" due to high penetration, passing, and ball possession rates.

ConstableGeneva · Post #232 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:54 pm

Quick 1-on-1 with Mike Gorman: http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/sma ... s-approach

I love this kid. I think he's gonna have a really good career, hopefully in Celtics green for a long time. It's hard not to think that right now, he's just too tentative on the offensive side of the ball. You do want him to be as aggressive on that end as he's been on defense, but it's probably a case of not wanting to step on other people's toes and just doing what's being asked of him. He's 20 and a rookie who's gonna play behind one of the great C's PGs ever (unless they groom him to become more of an SG esp. with Turner on the roster) but he'll figure it out and he'll keep working on the weaknesses in his game. I'm just excited to see his game grow and be an absolute pest on D in the meantime.

ConstableGeneva · Post #233 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:35 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/celtics/status/522862854295552000[/tweet]
There you go... Bradley's not a lock as starting SG.

sam_I_am · Post #234 » by **sam_I_am** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:34 pm

GuyClinch wrote:TA comes off the bench - and was a pretty good scorer at times. Marcus is going to have to do a lot better offensively before he starts for anyone - ever. It's as simple as that. Let's hope he picks it up as the season goes on..

Danny will be bitterly disappointed if Smart shoots like 41% on the season..

Tony Allen could put up 20 ppg as a starter on this quality type team before knee injury. He may not be much of a shooter - like Smart - but few players could keep him from getting to the rim when he had the green light after Pierce got hurt. I have yet to see a single instance where Smart has displayed that type of ability.

Bluewhale · Post #235 » by **Bluewhale** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:13 am

Tony is more explosive and bigger (8'6 standing reach)

bbd24 · Post #236 » by **bbd24** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:19 am

sam_I_am wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:TA comes off the bench - and was a pretty good scorer at times. Marcus is going to have to do a lot better offensively before he starts for anyone - ever. It's as simple as that. Let's hope he picks it up as the season goes on..

Danny will be bitterly disappointed if Smart shoots like 41% on the season..

Tony Allen could put up 20 ppg as a starter on this quality type team before knee injury. He may not be much of a shooter - like Smart - but few players could keep him from getting to the rim when he had the green light after Pierce got hurt. I have yet to see a single instance where Smart has displayed that type of ability.

You're not seeing it because Smart is looking to distribute and is doing a damn good job of it. Very good PG skills for just 20 yrs old. Always looking to move the ball for the best shot.

The D is of course it's own beast and Tony Allen like right off the bat.

Smarts an extremely gifted talent at 20. Keep the development going.

sam_I_am · Post #237 » by **sam_I_am** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:49 am

bbd24 wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:TA comes off the bench - and was a pretty good scorer at times. Marcus is going to have to do a lot better offensively before he starts for anyone - ever. It's as simple as that. Let's hope he picks it up as the season goes on..

Danny will be bitterly disappointed if Smart shoots like 41% on the season..

Tony Allen could put up 20 ppg as a starter on this quality type team before knee injury. He may not be much of a shooter - like Smart - but few players could keep him from getting to the rim when he had the green light after Pierce got hurt. I have yet to see a single instance where Smart has displayed that type of ability.

You're not seeing it because Smart is looking to distribute and is doing a damn good job of it. Very good PG skills for just 20 yrs old. Always looking to move the ball for the best shot.

The D is of course it's own beast and Tony Allen like right off the bat.

Smarts an extremely gifted talent at 20. Keep the development going.

Rondo looks to distribute too but can score at a 48% clip.

Stop making excuses for the kid. Sure he's a good guy and Kobe Bryant is a jerk. But one can score at NBA level and one has yet to prove it.

I'm not saying he never can. I'm just saying he is a project - even more so than Aaron Gordon. I'm glad so many believe in the kid but if I could get a proven vet like Al Horford - I would trade him in a heartbeat.

jpengland · Post #238 » by **jpengland** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:10 pm

Rondo next to Smart? Ouch.

I had my reservations about Smart in the NBA and he is just backing them up with his play. He is not explosive enough to get into the paint consistently and his jumpshot is terrible. I don't see his jumper likely ever becoming 'good' and that first step isn't going to magic itself out of thin air so I just can't see him ever being a big enough threat offensively to be a starter in the NBA.

His defense is good, we all knew that would be true but you can't be a starter in the NBA in the backcourt if you can't shoot, can't get into the lane and you are 6'3.

Very bad pick. I wouldn't have picked him in the lottery, nevermind 6th.

Bluewhale · Post #239 » by **Bluewhale** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:42 pm

jpengland wrote:Rondo next to Smart? Ouch.

Very bad pick. I wouldn't have picked him in the lottery, nevermind 6th.

Ouch. Who would you pick?

jpengland · Post #240 » by **jpengland** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:53 pm

Bluewhale wrote:
jpengland wrote:Rondo next to Smart? Ouch.

Very bad pick. I wouldn't have picked him in the lottery, nevermind 6th.

Ouch. Who would you pick?

Pretty much everybody in the lottery and a couple of others (don't have time to list why for each player).

I understand why people like him and I really do like him from a defensive point of view, but being PG size without elite PG playmaking, not enough explosion/handling to get to the hoop and one of the worst jumpers I have seen in the league means he will simply not score at the NBA level and will be a spacing nightmare as people will just sag off him all day and play help.

Very good college player, bt doesn't have the skillset for the NBA.