rookies: best, sleeper, bust

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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#181 » by tiderulz » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:10 pm

GameOver25 wrote:
Choker wrote:
Dat2U wrote:I'm not questioning his athleticism. I think he's got the athleticism to defend all over the court, but the skill level is woeful for a SF. I don't see how it works offensively, You already got non-shooters everywhere but Frye and maybe Oladipo. The good thing about Gordon is that he measured out well for a PF in terms of length. That's where his future is and where his skillset won't be a complete drag on the offense. Defensively, at the moment his best asset may be his ability to fly around on the perimeter and cause havoc... however as he grows into his frame over the next few years, I would expect him to become more impactful as an active big that excels at closing off driving lanes and challenging shots in the paint.


I don't disagree that he's a weird fit at SF because of his shooting and lack of overall scoring skills on the perimeter. He's better as a PF, so I'm befuddled with what the Magic's long term goals for him are. Although I don't think it's absolutely impossible for him to be an SF. He could be more of a SF in the 80's than one in current times, which is why I have him as his absolute best case scenario as Gerald Wallace, if the Magic are insistent of developing him as a SF. He has a nice first step, decent enough handles to get to the bucket, and good strength/athleticism to finish above the rim. He could operate in the mid range and elbow areas rather than beyond the 3 point line, work in the triple threat, and draw fouls or make plays.

For that to work however he needs to work work work work work work work on his jumper.

However I just wouldn't take the chance at that happening and would try developing him at where he's best suited, and that's as a PF imo.


I think Gordon position will eventually be PF. Frye is holding down the PF spot for now since Gordon is such a raw player and needs to development. He also needs to physically and mentally get used to NBA bigs.


that and we also dont know if he has stopped growing yet
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#182 » by nicnac215 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:15 pm

Best overall player: Joel embiid
Best offensive player: parker
Best defensive player: gordon
Bust: Exum
Sleeper: Hood
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#183 » by Zombiesonics » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:18 pm

yall sleep on Napedogg, who will be a starter by Christmas. plays like this guy but a flashy passing

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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#184 » by inquisitive » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:19 pm

Sleeper: N.Johnson, Randle
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#185 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:30 pm

Eduardo wrote:Best: exum. I think he will end up as the best player from this draft. He's got some nice tools.
Sleeper: mirotic or wiggins. Mirotic will surprise a lot of people. He would have gone top 8 in this draft imo. Him andMcDrainit will take the league by surprise. Can't wait for the drain duo. A lot of people are saying wiggins is all athleticism and no skill. I think he will find his game and become a star. He is already an elite man defender.
Bust: I think Gordon will be a typical tweener bust


How is the No. 1 overall pick a sleeper?
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#186 » by Prokorov » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:38 am

majortom71 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
im going off of college for both guys. basing anything on preseason is idiotic

are you being serious here? His passing has looked great. his defense is very good too. Shooting, that is an issue with many rookies.

And how many NBA games has Gordon played? so what has he shown? can use it on one but not the exact same argument on the other.

I disagree with you and your buddy. Made a post explaining it, but it's cool keep failing at arguments.


and you keep basing your predictions off of games teams arent even trying to win
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#187 » by tiderulz » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:46 am

Prokorov wrote:
majortom71 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
im going off of college for both guys. basing anything on preseason is idiotic

I disagree with you and your buddy. Made a post explaining it, but it's cool keep failing at arguments.


and you keep basing your predictions off of games teams arent even trying to win


so if you are basing it off of college. Payton was the NCAA defensive player of the year, the conference player of the year, he has all the physical attributes of a good PG (6'4, 6'8 wingspan), he shown himself to be a good passer. And you think he will bust?

You dont think he wont be a star, you dont think he wont be a starter, you think he will bust?

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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#188 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:48 am

tiderulz wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
majortom71 wrote:I disagree with you and your buddy. Made a post explaining it, but it's cool keep failing at arguments.


and you keep basing your predictions off of games teams arent even trying to win


so if you are basing it off of college. Payton was the NCAA defensive player of the year, the conference player of the year, he has all the physical attributes of a good PG (6'4, 6'8 wingspan), he shown himself to be a good passer. And you think he will bust?

Image


To be fair, as with most players from weaker teams and competition levels, I don't think we can honestly say one way or the other right now. Yes, Payton has looked good in meaningless games, but that doesn't mean he will develop. Conversely, I haven't seen anything that tells me he is a home run either. We will have to see.
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#189 » by Prokorov » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:50 am

tiderulz wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
majortom71 wrote:I disagree with you and your buddy. Made a post explaining it, but it's cool keep failing at arguments.


and you keep basing your predictions off of games teams arent even trying to win


so if you are basing it off of college. Payton was the NCAA defensive player of the year, the conference player of the year, he has all the physical attributes of a good PG (6'4, 6'8 wingspan), he shown himself to be a good passer. And you think he will bust?

You dont think he wont be a star, you dont think he wont be a starter, you think he will bust?

Image


he was a brick layer with no court vision. sure he did alot of other things well, he is athletic and his size was a big asset for him at that level. i just think the things he doesnt do well will be a bigger issue then the things he does, since his size wont be as big an advantage at this level and no way he can play off gaurd with his shooting.

he also goes into hero mode all the time and forces things that arent there. im not saying he gets cut, but i see him as an underwhelming bench player
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#190 » by tiderulz » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:25 pm

Prokorov wrote: with no court vision.


I'm done. you either just hate the Magic (which it has looked like in the past) or you dont actually know who Payton is. His court vision is very good, his passing has been great. The fact that successful coaches like him and think he will do very well shows how off you are. done arguing this with facts.
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#191 » by Talent Chaser » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:31 pm

Best: Embiid, Wiggins, Parker
Sleeper: Nurkic, Warren, Stauskas
Bust: Gordon (no doubt in my mind, is delusional about his role and can't dribble/shoot), Smart
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#192 » by WolvesGuy14 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:51 pm

I think trying to predict a rookie's career (at least within the lottery) and going off what they have shown before regular season (Pre-season, camp, NBA SL, etc.) and college are equally tough.

If you are going based on college, you have to consider how different the games are (floor spacing, defensive strategies, offensive strategies, talent level, etc.) For instance, Parker and Wiggins are much more suited for the NBA game than the college game.

If you are going based on before the season, you are judging them based on playing against lesser competition or competition that isn't really trying to win a game.

To ridicule someone judging a player based on either of these things is pretty dumb.
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#193 » by Mirjalovic » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:07 pm

Best : Julius Randle, a bit homer, but everyone have wrong perception about his skillset and ceilling in weird way.
Sleeper : Doug McDermott, most of you living in the past. He's no Ammo or Redick.. He's better than Ammo, and has better size than Redick.
Bust : Marcus Smart.. most overrated prospect in recent years
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#194 » by ShaqDiesel » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:15 pm

JURSUF NURKIC
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#195 » by OrlMagic05 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:48 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Prokorov wrote: with no court vision.


I'm done. you either just hate the Magic (which it has looked like in the past) or you dont actually know who Payton is. His court vision is very good, his passing has been great. The fact that successful coaches like him and think he will do very well shows how off you are. done arguing this with facts.


Why waste your time, he is still upset that we didn't trade Dwight to Brooklyn.
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#196 » by Gomagic44 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:53 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Prokorov wrote: with no court vision.


I'm done. you either just hate the Magic (which it has looked like in the past) or you dont actually know who Payton is. His court vision is very good, his passing has been great. The fact that successful coaches like him and think he will do very well shows how off you are. done arguing this with facts.


Tide, this is the guy I went off on when our pathetic team of scrubs best his world champ nets. He had called the magic a pathetic organization, team and talent etc. don't be surprised, he's salty. I merely relish the fact his team is irrelevant for the immediate future. Magic on the up and up! Also, if you've watched a single preseason magic game, you couldn't possibly say he has no court vision. Dude is the new rondo passing wise. He gets it. He knows who is cutting and where they are. Split second decisions are something he is very good at. Basically, I can't wait till we play the nets again this year! :lol:


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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#197 » by majortom71 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:53 pm

WolvesGuy14 wrote:I think trying to predict a rookie's career (at least within the lottery) and going off what they have shown before regular season (Pre-season, camp, NBA SL, etc.) and college are equally tough.

If you are going based on college, you have to consider how different the games are (floor spacing, defensive strategies, offensive strategies, talent level, etc.) For instance, Parker and Wiggins are much more suited for the NBA game than the college game.

If you are going based on before the season, you are judging them based on playing against lesser competition or competition that isn't really trying to win a game.

To ridicule someone judging a player based on either of these things is pretty dumb.


Thank you for that input.
I'll add to this.
Many people look at pre-season and SL as being not a good measuring tool because games "are not taken seriously".
Yes, by us fans we don't need to take them seriously.
However there is a good reason the NBA does have a pre-season schedule to play and it's not for generating revenue.
Talent is brought in and coaches and other members of the organization are actively evaluating how they fit the team.
Now the starters/vets usually will play first half and bench most of 2nd half.
However, the rookies and D-League players fighting for spots and roles are still playing hard and I would assume would take things quite seriously since it determines whether they either make the team or get a starting spot on the team.
At the end of the day we can say these games don't matter to us, but it does matter many of the players and teams that are partaking in them.

Having said this RS will be the best way to evaluate all players.
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#198 » by PerkinsFor3 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:04 pm

I'll chip in:

Best: Embiid, Wiggins
Sleeper: Nurkic, Tarik Black, Gary Harris
Bust: Smart (Marcus Banks)
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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#199 » by aboogie » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:10 pm

Best : joel embid
Sleeper: nick stauskas
Bust: noah vonlah


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Re: rookies: best, sleeper, bust 

Post#200 » by Sixteen » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:26 pm

Real GM has become so childish. Including myself at times. Magic fans, you guys are starting to look like insecure attention whores.

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