Offseason Thread 7: A Tale Of Two Dragons

[jcsunsfan]

Gerald Green for Monroe?

who says no?

In a NY second. I would think Detroit would say no unless he starts to become a distraction for them. I do think though, that the type of center this team needs is a shotblocking rebounder--Dwight Howard, Serge Ibaka type.

[Frank Lee]

If Horford is tabled, we had better be sitting in the head chair. Count on the LA pick as part of a bigger package. HE would bring immediate legitimacy to the front court. Sure, he'd have to play the post a bit, but I think he'd mesh nicely here.

Also, keep an eye on David West / Indy. Some will scoff,and cry old old old.... but for the next two yrs, he'd be our best PF hands down. If he finished his career here (much like crazy eyes KT should have) we'd be a better team altogether.

As far as acquiring an up comer like Monroe.... its a can't say no to that either, but not unless he buys in long term, which may clog up some future cash.


Tucker/Goodwin/Ennis/Green/ Chuck Thomas/ perhaps Plum/ and may be Len could be part of any package.
Have to give to get in this league.

BTW...Len/Green/Goodwin/picks works for Horford

[Sunsdeuce]

If Horford is tabled, we had better be sitting in the head chair. Count on the LA pick as part of a bigger package. HE would bring immediate legitimacy to the front court. Sure, he'd have to play the post a bit, but I think he'd mesh nicely here.

Also, keep an eye on David West / Indy. Some will scoff,and cry old old old.... but for the next two yrs, he'd be our best PF hands down. If he finished his career here (much like crazy eyes KT should have) we'd be a better team altogether.

As far as acquiring an up comer like Monroe.... its a can't say no to that either, but not unless he buys in long term, which may clog up some future cash.


Tucker/Goodwin/Ennis/Green/ Chuck Thomas/ perhaps Plum/ and may be Len could be part of any package.
Have to give to get in this league.

BTW...Len/Green/Goodwin/picks works for Horford

I honestly don't have a problem with that package. Goodwin has talent but I think he is about 3-4 years away. Green is going to get a raise from someone. Len is the mystery.


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[bwgood77]

FYI:

1)
The Brooklyn Nets and Boston Celtics will play a 44-minute game — four minutes shorter than a regulation NBA game — Sunday at the Barclays Center. Playing four 11-minute quarters is a one-time preseason experiment and only exploratory. However, at the recent NBA coaches' meeting in Chicago, the length of games was a topic, and it was suggested the NBA take a look at shortening games. USA Today Sports

"We have looked at everything that we do and are taking a fresh look at all the different things we do," NBA president of basketball operations Rod Thorn said. "One of the things that keeps coming up is our schedule and the length of our games. … Our coaches talked about it, and a lot of them seemed to be in favor of at least taking a look at it. We talked with our competition committee, and they were in favor of taking a look at it." The NBA will look how a 44-minute game impacts length of the game, player-substitution patterns and flow of the game to determine if there's a better experience. "Let's get some empirical evidence regarding this and take a fresh look at it," Thorn said. USA Today Sports

2)
Al Horford’s name will enter trade talks. It happened in stealth mode last season, when the Hawks reached out to a select group and made it known that Horford could be had for the right price — including an unprotected 2014 first-round pick, per several league sources. Nothing materialized, and Horford is ready to return from another torn pectoral muscle. A healthy Horford is a top-20 player on a below-market contract that runs through 2015-16 — long enough that some team could talk itself into gambling on him. He could net a hefty return for the Hawks, who have been happily skipping down the “pretty good with cap room” path under Danny Ferry. Grantland

On #2, you forgot to mention that was one of Zach Lowe's (as he puts it) 33 crazy predictions. You also forgot this part

The Hawks don’t have a new owner yet, and as long as Mike Budenholzer is running the front office, they are unlikely to make any trade that represents a present-day step back.

If the ownership situation changes before the deadline, there’s no telling what stance the Hawks might take with Horford, Jeff Teague, or anyone else. Teams will inquire about Horford either way.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Monroe would come without Bird Rights. We would have to re-sign him as if he were an "incoming" FA...and at at least 14 or 15 million per year. There's no way.

[JTrain]

Not ready to give up on Len yet, especially after the comments that have been made from camp about his progress. I know it seems insane to say, but in three years Len could be a top five center. He has the physical tools.

Of course, he could still be a massive bust. But I think it's too early to give up on one of only four top ten picks we've had over the past 20 years (Marion, Stoudemire, Deng, Len).

[JTrain]

FYI:

1)
The Brooklyn Nets and Boston Celtics will play a 44-minute game — four minutes shorter than a regulation NBA game — Sunday at the Barclays Center. Playing four 11-minute quarters is a one-time preseason experiment and only exploratory. However, at the recent NBA coaches' meeting in Chicago, the length of games was a topic, and it was suggested the NBA take a look at shortening games. USA Today Sports

"We have looked at everything that we do and are taking a fresh look at all the different things we do," NBA president of basketball operations Rod Thorn said. "One of the things that keeps coming up is our schedule and the length of our games. … Our coaches talked about it, and a lot of them seemed to be in favor of at least taking a look at it. We talked with our competition committee, and they were in favor of taking a look at it." The NBA will look how a 44-minute game impacts length of the game, player-substitution patterns and flow of the game to determine if there's a better experience. "Let's get some empirical evidence regarding this and take a fresh look at it," Thorn said. USA Today Sports

Why does the NBA have to be so stupid?

[Frank Lee]

Not ready to give up on Len yet, especially after the comments that have been made from camp about his progress. I know it seems insane to say, but in three years Len could be a top five center. He has the physical tools.

Of course, he could still be a massive bust. But I think it's too early to give up on one of only four top ten picks we've had over the past 20 years (Marion, Stoudemire, Deng, Len).

I put less value on 'potential' obviously. I'd just as soon have a top player now as to one (may be) 3 yrs down the road

[phrazbit]

Yeah, the Suns should not hesitate to include Len in a trade that involves a high caliber player. He has shown marginal talent and a high propensity for injury, the odds of him becoming an elite player are heavily stacked against him. And even so, you have to give up something to get something. It bugs me that anytime one of our guys are included in a hypothetical trade it gets termed as "giving up on them". I paid 15 bucks for dinner last night, I was not giving up on cash... I was buying dinner.

[thamadkant]

If Horford is tabled, we had better be sitting in the head chair. Count on the LA pick as part of a bigger package. HE would bring immediate legitimacy to the front court. Sure, he'd have to play the post a bit, but I think he'd mesh nicely here.

Also, keep an eye on David West / Indy. Some will scoff,and cry old old old.... but for the next two yrs, he'd be our best PF hands down. If he finished his career here (much like crazy eyes KT should have) we'd be a better team altogether.

As far as acquiring an up comer like Monroe.... its a can't say no to that either, but not unless he buys in long term, which may clog up some future cash.


Tucker/Goodwin/Ennis/Green/ Chuck Thomas/ perhaps Plum/ and may be Len could be part of any package.
Have to give to get in this league.

BTW...Len/Green/Goodwin/picks works for Horford

I honestly don't have a problem with that package. Goodwin has talent but I think he is about 3-4 years away. Green is going to get a raise from someone. Len is the mystery.


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Len WILL be a servicable big given minutes and the ability to stay on the floor... 10 rebounds in 30 mins guarantee.

Basically that Len/Goodwin/Green for Horford is going to look TERRIBLE for the Suns the minute Len gets consistent game minutes for ANY team.

[thamadkant]

And Goodwin will definitely be a factor given minutes also.
The guy is still learning to shoot, but defensively he is pesky.


In 3 years time you are likely looking at a 6'6 version of Bledsoe.

So why even trade him when you are only playing him a chump change of the salary cap?

Its better to simply have him be mentored by Dragic, Bledsoe until he is 22-23 years old and have adjusted his game.

[Zelaznyrules]

FYI:

1)
The Brooklyn Nets and Boston Celtics will play a 44-minute game — four minutes shorter than a regulation NBA game — Sunday at the Barclays Center. Playing four 11-minute quarters is a one-time preseason experiment and only exploratory. However, at the recent NBA coaches' meeting in Chicago, the length of games was a topic, and it was suggested the NBA take a look at shortening games. USA Today Sports

"We have looked at everything that we do and are taking a fresh look at all the different things we do," NBA president of basketball operations Rod Thorn said. "One of the things that keeps coming up is our schedule and the length of our games. … Our coaches talked about it, and a lot of them seemed to be in favor of at least taking a look at it. We talked with our competition committee, and they were in favor of taking a look at it." The NBA will look how a 44-minute game impacts length of the game, player-substitution patterns and flow of the game to determine if there's a better experience. "Let's get some empirical evidence regarding this and take a fresh look at it," Thorn said. USA Today Sports

I'd wager this was a request from their TV partners. If it happens I'd be surprised if time out rules didn't change at the same time or shortly afterwards.

[thamadkant]

I dont know what the hell NBA are doing changing rules that doesnt need changing.

48 minute games have been happening for decades now and its FINE.

82 game seasons have been happening for decades now and its FINE.

ADs on jerseys are NOT needed.... NBA is making Billion dollar profits every year... if they were on the brink of bankruptcy then I can understand it... but every year with TV rights and new sponsorships... the profit is steady and increasing... ADs on jerseys are assinine for the NBA.

The thing that need to change is BAD referee calls/non-calls need to be challenged by coaches/players by using videos.
If a player misses a layup because he was fouled and not called, then they could challenge it.
SURE it'll slow down the game, but it improves the INTEGRITY of the game... but INTEGRITY doesnt bring in $$$ so it'll never happen.

[Frank Lee]

And Goodwin will definitely be a factor given minutes also.
The guy is still learning to shoot, but defensively he is pesky.


In 3 years time you are likely looking at a 6'6 version of Bledsoe.

So why even trade him when you are only playing him a chump change of the salary cap?

Its better to simply have him be mentored by Dragic, Bledsoe until he is 22-23 years old and have adjusted his game.

Len and Goodwin = two in the bush
Horford = one in the hand

Goodwin will be a toss in much like Lamb was with the Harden deal.
He is more and more reminding me of DJ Strawburry.

[phrazbit]

Len WILL be a servicable big given minutes and the ability to stay on the floor... 10 rebounds in 30 mins guarantee.

Basically that Len/Goodwin/Green for Horford is going to look TERRIBLE for the Suns the minute Len gets consistent game minutes for ANY team.

And Goodwin will definitely be a factor given minutes also.
The guy is still learning to shoot, but defensively he is pesky.


In 3 years time you are likely looking at a 6'6 version of Bledsoe.

So why even trade him when you are only playing him a chump change of the salary cap?

Its better to simply have him be mentored by Dragic, Bledsoe until he is 22-23 years old and have adjusted his game.

Look man, you can't get a guy like Horford for nothing, you HAVE to throw in guys that have trade value. And I think the idea that Len/Goodwin/Green would be a bad trade is bat **** crazy. Shipping off 2 guys that can hardly play right now and one guy (Green) who has become superfluous and needs an extension... in exchange for an all-star big. That would be grand larceny on the Suns part.

I know everyone wants to view young players in the most absolute positive light they can but your views on Len and Goodwin are pure homerism. Goodwin does have a solid ability to get to the rim... but he struggles to finish, he has terrible decision making and handles. Considering he knew and the coaching staff knew that he needed to improve his outside shot and ball handling this summer, and for him to look this bad at it still is discouraging. He is a terrible shooter and passer, he needs to get one of those abilities to "good" for him to even stay in the league. You can't have a guard suck in both those areas. In 3 years you're much more likely to looking at a guard in Turkey than a 6'6" version of Bledsoe. He MIGHT improve, I see more hope for him than the other candidate here because he does have a unique ability to attack the rim, but Goodwin has a long way to go.

As for Len... Plumlee, as rough as he is, rebounds at a significantly higher rate than Len. On top of that Len has been so bad with his defensive positioning and fouling that he'd foul out before he even got to 30 minutes. There is no reason whatsoever to expect greatness from Len, he has not shown it at any level. He has bad hands and terrible instincts. This is a guy with a poor skill set and serious injury concerns. The only thing he has going for him is his size. That size alone might keep him in the league for a while but IMO the odds of him becoming a reliable starter are about 1 in 20, and the odds of him being a top 5 big (as some here insanely expect) are about 1 in 1000.

For a harsh dose of reality, not only was Robin Lopez waaaaaaaaay better as a rookie than Len, Thabeet had a better rookie year too.

[letsgosuns]

The Suns are in serious need of a starting caliber power forward. Right now, Plumlee and Markieff Morris are not cutting it. I have been as big a proponent of Plumlee as anyone, but even I see that he needs to step it up dramatically. The problem is that the Suns frontcourt rotation consists of all role players, so Plumlee's weaknesses stand out way more than if he played with a scoring power forward. I also do not believe that either Morris brother is a starting caliber player. I do not think Marcus Morris is even worthy of being in the rotation. I would rather see a Tucker/Warren combo sharing the minutes at small forward. I know it might sound crazy, but I think it is possible the Suns locked up the Morris brothers to make them more attractive in a trade down the line. I want to be clear that it is not like I think the Suns need to make drastic changes though. I just am worried about the Suns being completely exposed in the frontcourt once the season starts.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Unlikely as it would be to ever happen, the way I could somehow see Horford getting to Phoenix is with Teague in tow. Bledsoe plus some packaged combo of Green? Plumlee? Len? Goodwin? Warren? Picks? going to ATL.

How "juicy" the after EB package would need to be for Horford and Teague? I have little idea. The Hawks and what they're thinking, is a mystery to me. A new owner might clear that up.

[lilfishi22]

Len and Goodwin = two in the bush
Horford = one in the hand

Goodwin will be a toss in much like Lamb was with the Harden deal.
He is more and more reminding me of DJ Strawburry.

I hate to admit it but I have to agree with you.

[wordsenuff]

looks like joe jackson, casey prather and jamil wilson were cut today.. still have earl with a 16 man roster.

[lilfishi22]

Len WILL be a servicable big given minutes and the ability to stay on the floor... 10 rebounds in 30 mins guarantee.

Basically that Len/Goodwin/Green for Horford is going to look TERRIBLE for the Suns the minute Len gets consistent game minutes for ANY team.

An All-NBA player in their prime for a gunner and two unproven prospects is a great deal.

Frank put it perfectly

Len and Goodwin = two in the bush
Horford = one in the hand