Offseason Thread 7: A Tale Of Two Dragons

[jcsunsfan]

Horford is probably alot more attainable than you think (or Atlanta fans are really good at undervaluing their own talent).

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1349308

[Christine-In-AZ]

Len WILL be a servicable big given minutes and the ability to stay on the floor... 10 rebounds in 30 mins guarantee.

Basically that Len/Goodwin/Green for Horford is going to look TERRIBLE for the Suns the minute Len gets consistent game minutes for ANY team.

An All-NBA player in their prime for a gunner and two unproven prospects is a great deal.

Frank put it perfectly

Len and Goodwin = two in the bush
Horford = one in the hand

Problem is Len & Goodwin isn't even halfway to Horford, without even mentioning salary matching.

Len, Goodwin. LAL pick and PHX '15 pick maybe?...MIGHT get the Hawks to listen a bit...not mentioning salary matching issue once again.

[jcsunsfan]

Len WILL be a servicable big given minutes and the ability to stay on the floor... 10 rebounds in 30 mins guarantee.

Basically that Len/Goodwin/Green for Horford is going to look TERRIBLE for the Suns the minute Len gets consistent game minutes for ANY team.

An All-NBA player in their prime for a gunner and two unproven prospects is a great deal.

Frank put it perfectly

Len and Goodwin = two in the bush
Horford = one in the hand

Problem is Len & Goodwin isn't even halfway to Horford, without even mentioning salary matching.

Len, Goodwin. LAL pick and PHX '15 pick maybe?...MIGHT get the Hawks to listen a bit...not mentioning salary matching issue once again.

Not a chance. Horford does not have nearly the value people think.

[Christine-In-AZ]

An All-NBA player in their prime for a gunner and two unproven prospects is a great deal.

Frank put it perfectly

Problem is Len & Goodwin isn't even halfway to Horford, without even mentioning salary matching.

Len, Goodwin. LAL pick and PHX '15 pick maybe?...MIGHT get the Hawks to listen a bit...not mentioning salary matching issue once again.

Not a chance. Horford does not have nearly the value people think.

You want me to post that trade prop in the Hawk forum? If so, what's your guess on the reaction?

[lilfishi22]

Len WILL be a servicable big given minutes and the ability to stay on the floor... 10 rebounds in 30 mins guarantee.

Basically that Len/Goodwin/Green for Horford is going to look TERRIBLE for the Suns the minute Len gets consistent game minutes for ANY team.

An All-NBA player in their prime for a gunner and two unproven prospects is a great deal.

Frank put it perfectly

Len and Goodwin = two in the bush
Horford = one in the hand

Problem is Len & Goodwin isn't even halfway to Horford, without even mentioning salary matching.

Len, Goodwin. LAL pick and PHX '15 pick maybe?...MIGHT get the Hawks to listen a bit...not mentioning salary matching issue once again.

There would have to be more than that in terms of salary matching but 1UPZ assertion that Rooks/Green would be terrible for the Suns is just ridiculous.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Ok. Posited the Len, Goodwin, LAL and PHX 1st rounder for Horford question @ viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1349308

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm not really interested in a PF right now. How much of an upgrade over the Morris twins would Horford be? The real issue is center. We need size, and we're counting on Alex to bring it. That means playing. So far, he hasn't done it. What I'm saying is, if you make a trade, you trade for a center.

Wait til teams start to self destruct: we'll see who becomes available.

[Christine-In-AZ]

I'm not really interested in a PF right now. How much of an upgrade over the Morris twins would Horford be? The real issue is center. We need size, and we're counting on Alex to bring it. That means playing. So far, he hasn't done it. What I'm saying is, if you make a trade, you trade for a center.

Wait til teams start to self destruct: we'll see who becomes available.

Horford would be an improvement at PF and Center IMO. Double your pleasure

[JTrain]

Not ready to give up on Len yet, especially after the comments that have been made from camp about his progress. I know it seems insane to say, but in three years Len could be a top five center. He has the physical tools.

Of course, he could still be a massive bust. But I think it's too early to give up on one of only four top ten picks we've had over the past 20 years (Marion, Stoudemire, Deng, Len).

I put less value on 'potential' obviously. I'd just as soon have a top player now as to one (may be) 3 yrs down the road

If I felt we could compete for the West this year or next, I would agree. But I think we are more likely 3-4 years away. Horford is a great player, and while he's certainly not old, he's not that young either. In three seasons he will be 30 and likely past his prime. Len will be 23. I would rather keep Len, Archie and the draft picks and see if they can progress to help us be a contender in 2016-17.

[Jdiddy701]

NBATV just said Marion and Dudley used to be teammates in Phoenix...


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[lilfishi22]

C's don't enter their prime until much later. I'd argue Horford only just hit his prime.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm not really interested in a PF right now. How much of an upgrade over the Morris twins would Horford be? The real issue is center. We need size, and we're counting on Alex to bring it. That means playing. So far, he hasn't done it. What I'm saying is, if you make a trade, you trade for a center.

Wait til teams start to self destruct: we'll see who becomes available.

Horford would be an improvement at PF and Center IMO. Double your pleasure

Horford is not a center. We need to protect the rim. I'd three-way that ****.

I still want Len to get a chance. The wait is killing me.

Len, Goodwin, LAL and PHX 1st rounder for Horford

[Saberestar]

Horford would be an outstanding addition and I think we would be a contenders with him playing center.
When healthy, Horford is a terrific defender, in the post or in the pick and roll, and he is an excellent rebounder. He can play uptempo, and has a good midrange game, so he would be a perfect fit. He is young enough to play 4-5 years at his maximum level.

I would trade Green, Plumlee (I prefer to have Len cause his upside), Archie and LA' and Phoenix's picks for Horford.

[JTrain]

Assuming Len is improved and Plumlee shakes off whatever the hell got into him the last few months, what do you guys think of having them on the court at the same time for a few minutes a game? Obviously it would only be against certain lineups.

[lilfishi22]

I'm not really interested in a PF right now. How much of an upgrade over the Morris twins would Horford be? The real issue is center. We need size, and we're counting on Alex to bring it. That means playing. So far, he hasn't done it. What I'm saying is, if you make a trade, you trade for a center.

Wait til teams start to self destruct: we'll see who becomes available.

Horford would be an improvement at PF and Center IMO. Double your pleasure

Horford is not a center. We need to protect the rim. I'd three-way that ****.

Horford is one of the most versatile bigs in the league today, yet is routinely overlooked for being so. His all-around game is superb, as he is naturally a power forward but plays the center spot very formidably.
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Horford is an anchor for the team’s defensive effort. While his defense has been slightly effected a bit from having a new frontcourt partner in Paul Millsap, if they can even come close to the effectiveness that Horford and Smith had in Atlanta for many years, Atlanta could make some noise in a rather quiet – except for Miami and Indiana – Eastern Conference. Horford’s versatility once again comes in handy on the defensive end, as he is one of the league’s best switch defenders and defensive helpers.

Ibaka is well known for his defensive prowess, as he remains arguably the best shotblocker in the NBA and is a very capable rim-protector for OKC. While Horford did have his best season in his career in 2012-13 in rebounding (10.2), Ibaka clearly surpasses him in protecting the rim and blocking shots. However, Horford’s ability to defend the ever-popular pick-and-roll set, switch to defend guards, and excel in man-on-man defense, boasts an all-around defensive game that tops the league. Per Synergy Sports, Horford’s overall defense allows just 35.6 percent of his opponent’s attempts to score this season compared to Ibaka’s 39.4 percent.

http://dimemag.com/2013/12/whos-better- ... sWLxq.dpuf

[Saberestar]

Assuming Len is improved and Plumlee shakes off whatever the hell got into him the last few months, what do you guys think of having them on the court at the same time for a few minutes a game? Obviously it would only be against certain lineups.

None of them have a decent midrange shot, and they do not know how to put the ball on the floor or even make good passes...I think it would be a bad experiment.

[lilfishi22]

Assuming Len is improved and Plumlee shakes off whatever the hell got into him the last few months, what do you guys think of having them on the court at the same time for a few minutes a game? Obviously it would only be against certain lineups.

Len would've had to have added legit consistent range to his jumper for it to even remotely work. I just don't see advantage of running that lineup. Len isn't there yet defensively and what they give up offensively won't be made up on the defensive end.

[Christine-In-AZ]

I'm not really interested in a PF right now. How much of an upgrade over the Morris twins would Horford be? The real issue is center. We need size, and we're counting on Alex to bring it. That means playing. So far, he hasn't done it. What I'm saying is, if you make a trade, you trade for a center.

Wait til teams start to self destruct: we'll see who becomes available.

Horford would be an improvement at PF and Center IMO. Double your pleasure

Horford is not a center. We need to protect the rim. I'd three-way that ****.

I still want Len to get a chance. The wait is killing me.

Len, Goodwin, LAL and PHX 1st rounder for Horford

I'm definately of the "we have to give Len a chance" camp, especially where the Suns are currently in the rebuild. This season is continued Beta testing as far as I'm concerned.

Dude has the (at the very least) makings for a quality center...a Robin Lopez-esk or even a peg higher quality Center seems a reasonable forecast. Give him all the rope we can for him display his worth possible this year. His potential far, far out weighs any trade value at this point. If he can just rise out of the bad/quirky injury mojo...I've got hope. But man! He just seems to have a dark and clutzy curse hanging over him.

Here's to breaking the curse and nothing more! At least long enough to evaluate

[lilfishi22]

I think the majority on here are in favor of giving Len a chance to succeed and would be patient. But if there was an offer where we could flip Len/assets for a legit big like Horford, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

No one here really wants to move Len just to move him.

[NavLDO]

The Suns are in serious need of a starting caliber power forward. Right now, Plumlee and Markieff Morris are not cutting it. I have been as big a proponent of Plumlee as anyone, but even I see that he needs to step it up dramatically. The problem is that the Suns frontcourt rotation consists of all role players, so Plumlee's weaknesses stand out way more than if he played with a scoring power forward. I also do not believe that either Morris brother is a starting caliber player. I do not think Marcus Morris is even worthy of being in the rotation. I would rather see a Tucker/Warren combo sharing the minutes at small forward. I know it might sound crazy, but I think it is possible the Suns locked up the Morris brothers to make them more attractive in a trade down the line. I want to be clear that it is not like I think the Suns need to make drastic changes though. I just am worried about the Suns being completely exposed in the frontcourt once the season starts.

That's a bit harsh, don't you think? I mean, Kieff was a finalist for 6th Man last year, posted a PER of 18.5, and had a WS of 6.4 while averaging 14/6. And Marcus wasn't far behind with a PER of 14.9, WS of 4.2, avging 10/4 in 21 minutes of play, with a .381 3PT%. I actually think he should get more burn as a stretch 4, and not sure why they have him primarily as a SF. At 6'9" 240, he's built more like a PF.

Anyway, the two are definitely worthy of the roles they play on this team. Add in the fact that Marcus has essentially 2 years of experience, and both are only 25, so I'm actually expecting a lot from them both this year, and think they are capable. And when they want to go small ball, play a EB, Goran, Green, Marcus, Kieff rotation and just run, baby!

Yeah, I've got a few rays of sunshine up my *bleep*, (kinda have to with my Os down 2-0, and the Steelers playing JV ball) but I don't see the negativity with the Morris bros...I'll save that for those that are playing like junk like Plumlee and the like.