Henry Abbot: Lakers FO can't wait for Kobe to retire

HotRocks34 · Post #121 » by **HotRocks34** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:09 pm

FatSam wrote:"Kidd Supreme" is a fellow ESPN writer, Larry Coon, who is likely the source for Abbott. Larry is a LG mod, and he has numerous side accounts he uses...so take this sensationalism with a Grain of salt. Also, Abbott has been writing negative Kobe articles, every year, since he was a forum moderator at Oregon Live message boards. Kobe gets hits, and he knows it.

As I said earlier in the thread, this reminds me of Kurt Helin from Pro Basketball Talk. He comes from a Lakers blog backgound, I think, and he seems to go out of his way to push pro-Kobe articles and anti-LeBron pieces. Everyone seems to have his or her own agenda, whether the goal is hits or to promote a point of view or whatever.

Abbott's angle seems clear, whatever his motivation is. As I said earlier in the thread. That doesn't mean he's not telling the truth or reporting accurately. It just means he seems likely to promote those facts and statistics that support his argument. This is true of many sportswriters, if not most of them, IMO.

Journalism and propaganda are often intertwined. It's unfortunate, but it seems more the case now than ever.

RebuildaBulls · Post #122 » by **RebuildaBulls** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:54 pm

Always felt Lakers are waiting for Kobe to retire already. Kobe is ruining their franchise's chance to pick up quality talent via free agency but so has management with their terrible moves.

I say they have 3 years till he retires and they can rebuild, they better stock up on lottery picks during this time

Post #123 » by **Slava** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:56 pm

fancynapkin wrote:
Slava wrote:
fancynapkin wrote:
Who is asking for Abbott's opinion here? This is about the Lakers FO.

cute analogy though...

No fancytampon, unless abbott comes up with a direct quote, his only sources are his ass and his mouth.

Lakers would have a better season if they got advice from Abbott's ass and mouth.

Well I guess I should respect your acquaintance with abbotts ass and mouth.

EArl · Post #124 » by **EArl** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:02 pm

Henry Abbot is a tool. Not sure why anyone is taking him seriously seeing as he is pulling this out of his ass.

fancynapkin · Post #125 » by **fancynapkin** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:31 pm

Slava wrote:
fancynapkin wrote:
Slava wrote:
No fancytampon, unless abbott comes up with a direct quote, his only sources are his ass and his mouth.

Lakers would have a better season if they got advice from Abbott's ass and mouth.

Well I guess I should respect your acquaintance with abbotts ass and mouth.

Your apparent obsession with them makes me think you wish you were

JellosJigglin · Post #126 » by **JellosJigglin** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:43 pm

RebuildaBulls wrote:Always felt Lakers are waiting for Kobe to retire already. Kobe is ruining their franchise's chance to pick up quality talent via free agency but so has management with their terrible moves.

I say they have 3 years till he retires and they can rebuild, they better stock up on lottery picks during this time

I guess I'll just repeat the same old question that's been asked a million times without a clear answer: what "quality talent via free agency" have the Lakers missed out on because of Kobe?

(waiting on someone to reply with Dwight)

JellosJigglin · Post #127 » by **JellosJigglin** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:44 pm

Slava wrote:
fancynapkin wrote:
Slava wrote:
No fancytampon, unless abbott comes up with a direct quote, his only sources are his ass and his mouth.

Lakers would have a better season if they got advice from Abbott's ass and mouth.

Well I guess I should respect your acquaintance with abbotts ass and mouth.

Novocaine · Post #128 » by **Novocaine** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:47 pm

markjay wrote:If this is true, this says more about them than about Kobe. Why in the world did they sign him for $48 million if they don't want to keep him?

Because the alternative to not offering him $48 million wouldn't be Kobe retiring; it'd be him moving to other team (and probably retire there; even worse from the LAL perspective, possibly win titles and retire there) which would be more negative to them than paying him that contract.

So basically they went for the best option available to them - their favorite was out of the table.

If this is true, the only thing it says about the Lakers FO is that they acted rationally and consistently.

Post #129 » by **Slava** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:52 pm

fancynapkin wrote:
Slava wrote:
fancynapkin wrote:
Lakers would have a better season if they got advice from Abbott's ass and mouth.

Well I guess I should respect your acquaintance with abbotts ass and mouth.

Your apparent obsession with them makes me think you wish you were

No thanks!

HotRocks34 · Post #130 » by **HotRocks34** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:55 pm

I read the article and it's quite good, IMO. I agree with the basic gist of the article, as well.

Abbott was responsible here as a journalist. He sought comment from both Kobe and Kupchak, but both refused. That is, he gave both men the opportunity to provide "their side" of the story he was writing. As a writer, that's all you can do.

I learned some things I did not know, like the story about the Nash recruitment incident and Bynum's apparent concern with Kobe if Bynum were to re-sign or extend his deal with the team (I think that's what it was).

Abbott cited at least two NBA executives and I think several agents. There are a couple of more nebulous "Lakers insider" figures in the story, I think, but those are likely more minor figures who may not want to have any quotes attached to them because it might be easy to figure out who they are if they are more clearly identified.

Exodus · Post #131 » by **Exodus** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:56 pm

HotRocks34 wrote:I read the article and it's quite good, IMO. I agree with the basic gist of the article, as well.

Abbott was responsible here as a journalist. He sought comment from both Kobe and Kupchak, but both refused. That is, he gave both men the opportunity to provide "their side" of the story he was writing. As a writer, that's all you can do.

I learned some things I did not know, like the story about the Nash recruitment incident and Bynum's apparent concern with Kobe if Bynum were to re-sign or extend his deal with the team (I think that's what it was).

Abbott cited at least two NBA executives and I think several agents. There are a couple of more nebulous "Lakers insider" figures in the story, I think, but those are likely more minor figures who may not want to have any quotes attached to them because it might be easy to figure out who they are if they are more clearly identified.

I get the impression that your not a Laker fan?

MistyMountain20 · Post #132 » by **MistyMountain20** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:01 pm

JellosJigglin wrote:
RebuildaBulls wrote:Always felt Lakers are waiting for Kobe to retire already. Kobe is ruining their franchise's chance to pick up quality talent via free agency but so has management with their terrible moves.

I say they have 3 years till he retires and they can rebuild, they better stock up on lottery picks during this time

I guess I'll just repeat the same old question that's been asked a million times without a clear answer: what "quality talent via free agency" have the Lakers missed out on because of Kobe?

(waiting on someone to reply with Dwight)

I'd double down on that with this - Abbott apparently tried to do a timeline of stars no longer going to the Lakers. He (hysterically) starts this graph right when was drafted, so right from the get go Kobe was a deterrent for players. It seems that the player had to be an All-Star and they had to have played with the Lakers at a minimum of 150 games. Anyways, why not look at other stars during this time. Who came to play with Duncan? Pierce? McGrady? Carter? Garnett? Even Shaq wasn't able to attract stars to play with him on the rubric they're measuring with. Oh I get it - it's the Lakers. That's funny because you hear often on this message board that that's not an important factor for players. But since this is a negative article on Kobe, the Laker brand is now suddenly relevant again and all players are dying to go there (just like New York, right?).

What's also funny about his timeline is that ignores a players like Bynum, Nash (hasn't played 150 games due to injuries, but is going into his third season), Odom (due to his ridiculous standard of being an All-Star when Lamar played in a stacked Western Conference). Someone mentioned here, the knock on Kobe is that he has had uncommonly stacked teams in his career that he's benefited from. Now there seems to be gravitational push towards another narrative, a narrative of where no high level player wants to play with him. Now if this claim was made of the Kobe Bryant today, sure maybe there's something to it, but it would have more to do with his declining skill level than anything else. That's not a story. How do we make a story - we pretend that Kobe had always been a hindrance towards bringing players to the Lakers.

HotRocks34 · Post #133 » by **HotRocks34** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:04 pm

Exodus wrote:I get the impression that your not a Laker fan?

I am a Rockets fan who is now rooting for the Lakers somewhat because I like Jeremy Lin. I actually would like to see the Lakers do well now.

TrueStoryGSW · Post #134 » by **TrueStoryGSW** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:13 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/523377673351864320[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/523378187657416704[/tweet]

Seriously, who does that?

MistyMountain20 · Post #135 » by **MistyMountain20** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:17 pm

TrueStoryGSW wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/523377673351864320[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/523378187657416704[/tweet]

Seriously, who does that?

Then why did Abbott create a timeline detailing the dearth of players going to the Lakers through their whole history if it's only relevant towards today? Why doesn't Abbott go into detail on the players lost because of Bryant. Howard? Maybe Sessions? Is that serious?

Berserk_Raptor · Post #136 » by **Berserk_Raptor** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:22 pm

dont get me wrong but Kobe has a no-trade clause, doesnt he?

MistyMountain20 · Post #137 » by **MistyMountain20** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:33 pm

TrueStoryGSW wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/523377673351864320[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/523378187657416704[/tweet]

Seriously, who does that?

Sorry to quote you again, just realized the second tweet. And this is why I hate people hyper-analyzing things. You start to see things that aren't there. Like players not wanting to play with Kobe...

Fun fact, that game the guy is referring to, the game that Kobe "checked himself" into and "ball hogged" his way through, was the first game of pre-season where he played in the fourth quarter. Another fun fact, that game had him play the most minutes of any pre-season game and that quarter was his highest minute total. Now I am not a mind reader, but I think that maybe coach Scott saw this blowout game as a good opportunity to push Bryant's minute totals as he assimilates himself back into the basketball norms he's use to. As for his ball chucking, it could be a rhythm thing, which is a fair enough reason, but on the issue itself; Bryant played 10 minutes in that quarter. He took 6 shots (4 of which he hit) and went to the line 3-4 times. This chucking? Kobe's done better chucking in a minute span than that quarter, please don't undersell him.

So as someone who actually isn't that big of a Bryant fan, all this garbage is very sad to me. You have a bunch of writing hacks, like Abbott, like some folks at Grantland, who have an ax to grid with Bryant and are doing some clever hyper-analyzing to create a new narrative for him. I've watched Kobe for most of my basketball watching years and he's given some great basketball moments and I'll be damned if a bunch of bitter hacks try to smear one of the all time greats legacy.

Post #138 » by **Slava** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:37 pm

TrueStoryGSW wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/523378187657416704[/tweet]

Seriously, who does that?

This is not true if he is talking about the last game, Boozer & Kobe entered the game at the same time so I think Scott put them in because the reserves were free lancing a bit too much and the team was a little too shorthanded to put anyone else in. If it was Kobe alone, then there is a scope for such doubt but it really is not that. Scott even went out of his way to criticize the second unit for being unprofessional in the post game interviews.

Post #139 » by **Slava** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:50 pm

HotRocks34 wrote:I read the article and it's quite good, IMO. I agree with the basic gist of the article, as well.

Abbott was responsible here as a journalist. He sought comment from both Kobe and Kupchak, but both refused. That is, he gave both men the opportunity to provide "their side" of the story he was writing. As a writer, that's all you can do.

I learned some things I did not know, like the story about the Nash recruitment incident and Bynum's apparent concern with Kobe if Bynum were to re-sign or extend his deal with the team (I think that's what it was).

Abbott cited at least two NBA executives and I think several agents. There are a couple of more nebulous "Lakers insider" figures in the story, I think, but those are likely more minor figures who may not want to have any quotes attached to them because it might be easy to figure out who they are if they are more clearly identified.

The issue with attributing information to unnamed sources is that they might not exist in the first place. Its the job of the editors at ESPN to fact check those but they never let accuracy get in the way of a good page turning story ever so I wouldn't count on them to be professional in that sense.

I would trust unnamed league sources if it comes from someone who genuinely has proven correct in the past, like Woj, Ramona, Stein etc but people like Abbott, Broussard etc, are people I would not trust, they never had a good record with such predictions and they don't seem to be people who have genuine information before anyone else.

Lakers are known to run a tight ship when it comes to information coming out of the organization. Even Wojnarowski couldn't break the Lakers' lottery pick this season, that was broken by Ramona Shelburne, she's someone the Lakers voluntarily feed information to and they are very selective in who they trust with such stuff.

Bynum's agent has an axe to grind against the Lakers after they told him and to go F himself and signed Artest when he kept making unreasonable demands with Trevor Ariza. So it wouldn't surprise me he volunteered himself for this article. I'm also not sure why Kobe or Kupchak would even take the time to respond to such pointless chatter.

Striders · Post #140 » by **Striders** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:00 am

Slava wrote:I would trust unnamed league sources if it comes from someone who genuinely has proven correct in the past, like Woj,

OK. This is from a Woj article following Dwight leaving LA.

In the final weeks and days and hours leading into Howard's decision, the most consistent negative recruiting pitch rivals made to him about Houston centered on Harden. In presentations and private conversations to Howard, Harden had been sold as a bad teammate and selfish player, multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports.

"He was told [Harden] would be another Kobe in his life," one source closely involved in the free-agent process told Yahoo! Sports. "It came from a lot of people, but never once from Dwight's mouth."

This isn't the first time other execs have been revealed to have these views on Kobe.