The Patron Hornets Saint Zach Lowe Thread

[yosemiteben]

Figured Lowe gives us enough attention and some of us are big enough Lowe fan boys that it makes sense to start a thread on him.

In Grantland's most recent Annual NBA League Pass Rankings (Pt. 1), Lowe and Simmons talk about a David West trade to Charlotte and have various other Charlotte observations:

Simmons: They have to trade David West within the next three months, right? In the Bill and Jalen Preview for the Pacers (coming Wednesday!), Jalen smartly pushes for a West-to-Charlotte trade for former Hoosier Noah Vonleh or former Hoosier Cody Zeller. The Pacers should bottom out for a year and get a meaningful asset for West … right?

Lowe: Hmm … West has a $12.6 million option for the 2015-16 season, and it’s the rare option that presents an interesting choice for the player. As a 34-year-old on a semi-expiring deal, West just doesn’t have a lot of trade value. I don’t see the Hornets giving up a potential good young big for him, but they are the right sort of team for a trade like this — a longtime sad sack with some irrational exuberance and/or desperation to accelerate their rise.

Simmons: We disagree — it’s difficult enough to find a playoff-proven veteran/locker room leader that West’s value might be higher than you think. I would flip Zeller for him in 2.2 seconds. Imagine Charlotte becoming a genuine contender. And even better, imagine West and Lance improbably reuniting. If it happens, I hope someone takes a cell phone video of West rejoicing upon hearing that he got traded to a contender … and then realizing that he has to play with Lance again.

Lowe: West doesn’t make Charlotte a legitimate contender. But Zeller–Gerald Henderson is a workable trade package in terms of salary, and I could see Henderson becoming disgruntled as he loses minutes. I just don’t think West has much trade value as a rotation wing on another semi-expiring deal.

Simmons: Come on … Big Al, West, Lance, Kemba, Gary Neal, P.J. Hairston, Marvin “Veteran Leader” Williams and MKG Who Now Allegedly Shoots Correctly in the messy East? That’s not a contender? They couldn’t win two straight playoff series in the East? Careful, you’re gonna piss off the 2,500 Charlotte fans.

Lowe: Winning two series in the East means beating Chicago or Cleveland, and I don’t see your theoretical Hornets roster doing that if both of those teams are healthy.

...

Simmons: Would you consider Charlotte a 2015 contender if they flipped Noah Vonleh AND Cody Zeller for Al Horford? Who says no? Sorry … you know I have to do this every 1,200 words. It’s part of my contract.

"a longtime sad sack with some irrational exuberance and/or desperation to accelerate their rise."

"Careful, you’re gonna piss off the 2,500 Charlotte fans."

HOW DARE YOU LOWE?!?! I THOUGHT YOU LOVED US.

To be fair, we are at least in the top half of their League Pass rankings. Will be interesting to see what they have to say when they talk directly about us.

[mrknowitall215]

Bill Simmons never miss out on a opportunity to throw a pop shot at Charlotte fans

[fatlever]

i dont get the infatuation with trading for david west. he has maybe one year left as a starting level player.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Simmons made the 2,500 fans crack, but yeah.

Horford would be fantastic though.

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[yosemiteben]

i dont get the infatuation with trading for david west. he has maybe one year left as a starting level player.

I think he'd be a great fit for that one year, but I agree, that would be a shortsighted move IMO. I did get a chuckle at Simmons's point about telling West he's being traded to a contender then finding out he's back on a team with Lance.

[JDR720]

Simmons made the 2,500 fans crack, but yeah.

Horford would be fantastic though.

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Not if he retears his pectoral again and misses the season (pretty sure hes done it twice in the last 3 seasons)

[MasterIchiro]

Gerald Henderson, M. Williams, J. Taylor plus that Miami pick is plenty for West.

Simmons has him overrated - he's not worth Zeller or Vonleh.

Horford I'd love to have for Zeller + Vonleh. But first those guys have to build trade value and I think they can. We're going to be poised for a major strike at the deadline.

Afflalo - Horford - West - one of those guys.

[yosemiteben]

I highly doubt they are going to trade Marvin after just signing him.

[mrknowitall215]

I would do the Zeller+Vonleh deal for Horford because it would legitimately put Charlotte in contention for the Eastern Conference crown among the Cavaliers & Bulls, but I would have to see Vonleh in extended minutes before pulling the trigger on that deal to gauge his potential

All prayers on Atlanta even considering that deal would have to fall on the Hawks having a dismal start to their season that'll see them looking at the lottery balls more than playoff positioning, and I highly doubt that happens with a healthy Horford with Millsap & Teague on the roster and Budenholzer coaching

[JDR720]

I dont want West, old as dirt makes way to much i wouldn't even consider trading Vonleh for him that is just ridiculous

Horford i kinda dont want either, he is injury prone lately (11,74,29 games played the last 3 seasons) and ATL will want way to much since he would go to division rival and they won't trade him or any of their key players unless they have to tank for whatever reason

Afflalo? I really doubt we have anything Denver wants, they have good young players at every position if anything they will be looking to package some of them for a star

[LamarMatic7]

ugh.. Simmons with his trade ideas. he would fit in quite well over at the Pistons board. just such far-fetched ideas that always support the narrative that he has imagined and now desperately wants to see.

[Liver_Pooty]

These West ideas could become as nauseating as Jeremy Lamb.

[James Gatz]

These West ideas could become as nauseating as Jeremy Lamb.

Nothing will be as bad as "let's trade for Evan Turner."

[BlackOutBuzz]

These West ideas could become as nauseating as Jeremy Lamb.

Nothing will be as bad as "let's trade for Evan Turner (SF)."

Fixed

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[HornetJail]

These West ideas could become as nauseating as Jeremy Lamb.

Nothing will be as bad as "let's trade for Evan Turner."

The MKG and a high 1st for Rudy Gay trades were the absolute worst.

[catch20two]

These West ideas could become as nauseating as Jeremy Lamb.

Nothing will be as bad as "let's trade for Evan Turner."

I'd still take Evan Turner over Hendo. Lol

[catch20two]

I don't want David West on our team even tho he's a better overall PF than the ones we have. West just come off as lazy these days and we're a team that need as much effort out on the floor as possible, especially alongside Jefferson's slow self.

[HornetJail]

These West ideas could become as nauseating as Jeremy Lamb.

Nothing will be as bad as "let's trade for Evan Turner."

I'd still take Evan Turner over Hendo. Lol

I sure as hell wouldn't. He is Hendo with Neal's defense, MKG's jumper, and Bobcat Diaw's apathy.

Okay, slight exaggeration, but you get the idea.

[catch20two]

Nothing will be as bad as "let's trade for Evan Turner."

I'd still take Evan Turner over Hendo. Lol

I sure as hell wouldn't. He is Hendo with Neal's defense, MKG's jumper, and Bobcat Diaw's apathy.

Okay, slight exaggeration, but you get the idea.

I hear you but I don't think y'all will understand how useless Hendo really is in this league until he's out of the Bobcats/Hornets shadow. I can only imagine how bad Hendo would've looked in the Pacers stiff offense in a playoff run. Lol

[Snidely FC]

I love reading Lowe because he is clear sighted and tells the truth. The give and take with Simmons shows the difference between Lowe and Simmons, who prefers to poke people in the eye and generate publicity.

I don't see anything Lowe says about CHA as reason to jump off his band wagon.

Lowe: I don’t see the Hornets giving up a potential good young big for him, but they are the right sort of team for a trade like this — a longtime sad sack with some irrational exuberance and/or desperation to accelerate their rise.

I feel like signing Lance was a headline move to increase interest in the Hornets coming back. I would have preferred the team prioritize continuity by rewarding guys like McRoberts, CDR and Tolliver for their roles last year, and filling a hole by drafting McDermott. Instead they went for a headline signing in Lance and explosive upside in Vonleh in the draft, then had to plug holes with guys like Marvin and Roberts. The team got younger, with less continuity and depth. Meanwhile, it looks like Clifford plans to lean heavily on Gary Neal. Mgmt supposedly added better talent, but will all the new pieces work? I feel like this comment by Lowe highlights a legit concern, and shouldn't be taken to mean he no longer likes the team. He sees the risks in the moves CHA made this summer.

Lowe: West doesn’t make Charlotte a legitimate contender.

True!

I could see Henderson becoming disgruntled as he loses minutes.

Valid

Lowe: Winning two series in the East means beating Chicago or Cleveland, and I don’t see your theoretical Hornets roster doing that if both of those teams are healthy.

Yep