#Spacing - Steve Clifford Thread

[Braggins]

Agree with MrKIA. The rotations often make no justifiable sense and the things play out exactly how we all expect they will so I dont understand how Cliff could not see it coming. The issues often seem extremely obvious. I feel silly calling out a guy of his stature but I dont understand what he is thinking with his rotation sometimes. I dont think we should be lenient about this just because we won because it was the Bucks. If we were playing an actual good team last night they might have put up 120-130 points against those lineups.

[MasterIchiro]

It's troublesome we draft 2 players from a deep draft and both start the season out of the rotation but then I think back to minute limitations placed on MKG and Zeller last year and I realize it didn't really slow down their progression at all. On the contrary, both made vast improvements. When Hairston looks ready behind the scenes to Clifford, he will be in there instead of Neal. When Vonleh is ready, he will be there instead of Zeller and Zeller will take the place of Marvin when he is ready. It's just the pecking order and ultimately if our young players are going to follow the improvement patterns of MKG and Zeller, then I have to trust the coaches who see these players from angles we can't conceive. Biz had plenty of opportunities last season. He is a big bumbling buffoon out there. He is really embarrassing. I would rather see Marvin at PF and Zeller getting backup minutes at center. As for Neal, he should play ahead of Henderson. And with the way MKG is playing and the way Neal shoots better than Henderson, Hendo will have a hard time cracking these "wacky" rotations imo. Clifford needs to see this group in game situations and he will make the adjustments that need to be made. One thing that is more a front office problem is how we have a fast break group and Al possibly opting out. I would think long and hard about bringing in a big man who can keep up with these guys. I don't know who that might be but I wouldn't cry if they cut ties with Jefferson a year too soon rather than a year too late. If he opts out, hey.

[JDR720]

It's troublesome we draft 2 players from a deep draft and both start the season out of the rotation but then I think back to minute limitations placed on MKG and Zeller last year and I realize it didn't really slow down their progression at all. On the contrary, both made vast improvements. When Hairston looks ready behind the scenes to Clifford, he will be in there instead of Neal. When Vonleh is ready, he will be there instead of Zeller and Zeller will take the place of Marvin when he is ready. It's just the pecking order and ultimately if our young players are going to follow the improvement patterns of MKG and Zeller, then I have to trust the coaches who see these players from angles we can't conceive. Biz had plenty of opportunities last season. He is a big bumbling buffoon out there. He is really embarrassing. I would rather see Marvin at PF and Zeller getting backup minutes at center. As for Neal, he should play ahead of Henderson. And with the way MKG is playing and the way Neal shoots better than Henderson, Hendo will have a hard time cracking these "wacky" rotations imo. Clifford needs to see this group in game situations and he will make the adjustments that need to be made. One thing that is more a front office problem is how we have a fast break group and Al possibly opting out. I would think long and hard about bringing in a big man who can keep up with these guys. I don't know who that might be but I wouldn't cry if they cut ties with Jefferson a year too soon rather than a year too late. If he opts out, hey.

I would throw a boat load of money at Marc Gasol if he would come here.

[StitchJones]

Couple things Coach Clifford mentioned in his press conference yesterday and speaking today that should ease some fears. He's still figuring out the rotations, especially on the wing because we really didn't have everyone in the preseason to test different things. He also stated that he talked to PJ today about his DNP because he feels that PJ has earned minutes, so I think we will be seeing PJ get into the rotation. Clifford stated it's kind of difficult right now because we have multiple wing options and he's trying to figure out those rotations.

I thin this ends with Either gerald or Neal being moved. My guess is Gerald because he doesn't bring anything we need to the table. he doesn't space the floor, or facilitate, and he's no where near the rebounder from the wing position that Lance and MKG are.

In reguards to Biyambo, I'm fine with his DNP. He's such an albatross on the offensive end that I don't think you can play him. he just seems so unaware of things on offense sometimes that I can see how it would drive a coach mad. What i would love to see is him go to the NBDL for a while and just get a ton of minutes to develop his feel for the game. I feel like biyambo has always just been an athlete playing basketball and not a basketball player. The only way he develops that is through playing a LOT of minutes.

One thing I did like about the rotation was the minutes MKG got. Clifford is obviously feeling better about MKG's offense. If it wasn't for a bogus foul call early in the game, I think MKG has near 40 minute last night. Even so other than some moments we needed a three late, MKG was in the game during all the crucial moments.

[BigSlam]

merged

[TheKingofSting]

I don't understand how Biz didn't get a single minute, I think we will need his rim protecting against Memphis.

[catch20two]

I don't understand how Biz didn't get a single minute, I think we will need his rim protecting against Memphis.

No. We'll need the one or two jumpers that Maxipad might make that Biz can't while giving up 10 layups that Biz woulda altered. It makes perfect sense.

[Braggins]

It's troublesome we draft 2 players from a deep draft and both start the season out of the rotation but then I think back to minute limitations placed on MKG and Zeller last year and I realize it didn't really slow down their progression at all. On the contrary, both made vast improvements. When Hairston looks ready behind the scenes to Clifford, he will be in there instead of Neal. When Vonleh is ready, he will be there instead of Zeller and Zeller will take the place of Marvin when he is ready. It's just the pecking order and ultimately if our young players are going to follow the improvement patterns of MKG and Zeller, then I have to trust the coaches who see these players from angles we can't conceive. Biz had plenty of opportunities last season. He is a big bumbling buffoon out there. He is really embarrassing. I would rather see Marvin at PF and Zeller getting backup minutes at center. As for Neal, he should play ahead of Henderson. And with the way MKG is playing and the way Neal shoots better than Henderson, Hendo will have a hard time cracking these "wacky" rotations imo. Clifford needs to see this group in game situations and he will make the adjustments that need to be made. One thing that is more a front office problem is how we have a fast break group and Al possibly opting out. I would think long and hard about bringing in a big man who can keep up with these guys. I don't know who that might be but I wouldn't cry if they cut ties with Jefferson a year too soon rather than a year too late. If he opts out, hey.

I'm fine with them handling Hairston the way they handled MKG. Even though Neal didn't get much going last night the work he has put in is still obvious and we know his shooting won't be an issue. Even though he didn't look great on defense he was still so much better than last year and you can tell the weight loss is making a difference. We know Hairston isn't going to have any issues with confidence (one of the main reasons I didn't like handling MKG this way) so we can bring him along slowly with no worries. He'll be ready to let em fly whenever called upon.

I rarely bring this up because I am in a very tiny minority on this issue but I actually don't have much interest in resigning Al unless he takes a pay cut. If there are no other options or we gel and figure out how to mitigate his defensive issues again and we make a solid playoff run I fully expect us to resign him and won't be too upset about it in those scenarios but I just feel like we have to jump through too many hoops as a team to make up for Al's putrid defense and he really doesn't fit with what the rest of our roster wants to be doing. I've always felt like it was a matter of time before he became our extreme version of Carlos Boozer (Significantly better offense and significantly worse defense) with his contract.

[Braggins]

It's troublesome we draft 2 players from a deep draft and both start the season out of the rotation but then I think back to minute limitations placed on MKG and Zeller last year and I realize it didn't really slow down their progression at all. On the contrary, both made vast improvements. When Hairston looks ready behind the scenes to Clifford, he will be in there instead of Neal. When Vonleh is ready, he will be there instead of Zeller and Zeller will take the place of Marvin when he is ready. It's just the pecking order and ultimately if our young players are going to follow the improvement patterns of MKG and Zeller, then I have to trust the coaches who see these players from angles we can't conceive. Biz had plenty of opportunities last season. He is a big bumbling buffoon out there. He is really embarrassing. I would rather see Marvin at PF and Zeller getting backup minutes at center. As for Neal, he should play ahead of Henderson. And with the way MKG is playing and the way Neal shoots better than Henderson, Hendo will have a hard time cracking these "wacky" rotations imo. Clifford needs to see this group in game situations and he will make the adjustments that need to be made. One thing that is more a front office problem is how we have a fast break group and Al possibly opting out. I would think long and hard about bringing in a big man who can keep up with these guys. I don't know who that might be but I wouldn't cry if they cut ties with Jefferson a year too soon rather than a year too late. If he opts out, hey.

I would throw a boat load of money at Marc Gasol if he would come here.

That would be so amazing. Speaking of Gasol... We are going to get whomped by Memphis something awful on Saturday. If Clifford seriously sticks with that frontcourt rotation against Gasol and Z-Bo I'm not going to know what to think of him as a coach anymore.

[Liver_Pooty]

We have one of the best coaches in the league.

[Braggins]

I don't understand how Biz didn't get a single minute, I think we will need his rim protecting against Memphis.

Nah, Marvin will hit a couple 3's and Maxiel will hit an elbow jumper and get one decent assist and that will make up for Z-Bo scoring 35 against us.

[Liver_Pooty]

I don't understand how Biz didn't get a single minute, I think we will need his rim protecting against Memphis.

Nah, Marvin will hit a couple 3's and Maxiel will hit an elbow jumper and get one decent assist and that will make up for Z-Bo scoring 35 against us.

Even if Biyombo did get his regular minutes he wouldn't see hardly any minutes against Randolph or Gasol just like last year. This Biyombo getting a DNP is so overblown it is insane. One would think that we benched Hakeem Olajuwon or something of that nature.

Bismack Biyombo is not a good basketball player in general. Period.

[Braggins]

I don't understand how Biz didn't get a single minute, I think we will need his rim protecting against Memphis.

Nah, Marvin will hit a couple 3's and Maxiel will hit an elbow jumper and get one decent assist and that will make up for Z-Bo scoring 35 against us.

Even if Biyombo did get his regular minutes he wouldn't see hardly any minutes against Randolph or Gasol just like last year. This Biyombo getting a DNP is so overblown it is insane. One would think that we benched Hakeem Olajuwon or something of that nature.

Bismack Biyombo is not a good basketball player in general. Period.

I agree with your assessment of Biyombo's game, but I think benching him is a decently big deal considering our main issue last night was interior defense and rim protection (which were literally non-existent for most of the game). We are benching a bad player, but he is a bad player that is good at one of the things we have the most trouble with. The fact that he was benched for a washed up 6'7 center who is basically below average to bad at everything just makes it frustrating. I just really don't see the point of Maxiel over Biz at all. He is more competent offensively but he is still not a good offensive player in any way so I just don't understand it. As far as our rotation against Memphis, I am far more worried about Marvin and AL trying to guard Z-Bo and Gasol (especially the Marvin/Z-Bo matchup). I think it might be telling for how our season could go that Zeller looks like our best answer to opposing post players.

[Liver_Pooty]

Nah, Marvin will hit a couple 3's and Maxiel will hit an elbow jumper and get one decent assist and that will make up for Z-Bo scoring 35 against us.

Even if Biyombo did get his regular minutes he wouldn't see hardly any minutes against Randolph or Gasol just like last year. This Biyombo getting a DNP is so overblown it is insane. One would think that we benched Hakeem Olajuwon or something of that nature.

Bismack Biyombo is not a good basketball player in general. Period.

I agree with your assessment of Biyombo's game, but I think benching him is a decently big deal considering our main issue last night was interior defense and rim protection (which were literally non-existent for most of the game). We are benching a bad player, but he is a bad player that is good at one of the things we have the most trouble with. The fact that he was benched for a washed up 6'7 center who is basically below average to bad at everything just makes it frustrating. I just really don't see the point of Maxiel over Biz at all. He is more competent offensively but he is still not a good offensive player in any way so I just don't understand it. As far as our rotation against Memphis, I am far more worried about Marvin and AL trying to guard Z-Bo and Gasol (especially the Marvin/Z-Bo matchup). I think it might be telling for how our season could go that Zeller looks like our best answer to opposing post players.

Al did decent against Gasol last year. Randolph is who I am worried about, and Biyombo cannot play PF. Randolph would foul him out in under 12 minutes if that was the case. We just have to let Stephenson and MKG take advantage of their mismatches in that game.

[Braggins]

Even if Biyombo did get his regular minutes he wouldn't see hardly any minutes against Randolph or Gasol just like last year. This Biyombo getting a DNP is so overblown it is insane. One would think that we benched Hakeem Olajuwon or something of that nature.

Bismack Biyombo is not a good basketball player in general. Period.

I agree with your assessment of Biyombo's game, but I think benching him is a decently big deal considering our main issue last night was interior defense and rim protection (which were literally non-existent for most of the game). We are benching a bad player, but he is a bad player that is good at one of the things we have the most trouble with. The fact that he was benched for a washed up 6'7 center who is basically below average to bad at everything just makes it frustrating. I just really don't see the point of Maxiel over Biz at all. He is more competent offensively but he is still not a good offensive player in any way so I just don't understand it. As far as our rotation against Memphis, I am far more worried about Marvin and AL trying to guard Z-Bo and Gasol (especially the Marvin/Z-Bo matchup). I think it might be telling for how our season could go that Zeller looks like our best answer to opposing post players.

Al did decent against Gasol last year. Randolph is who I am worried about, and Biyombo cannot play PF. Randolph would foul him out in under 12 minutes if that was the case. We just have to let Stephenson and MKG take advantage of their mismatches in that game.

It is definitely true that Al looks a lot better on defense in the matchups where all he needs to do is bang and use his strength. Even though Biz isn't really a PF he could still offer a second line of help for whoever is the unfortunate soul getting thrashed by Z-Bo.

[Braggins]

Is it possible Memphis could actually be our absolute worst matchup? Also, how many teams in the NBA is that true for? Memphis has to be one of the most unappreciated squads in a long time. Gasol might be the best center in the league.

[Liver_Pooty]

I agree with your assessment of Biyombo's game, but I think benching him is a decently big deal considering our main issue last night was interior defense and rim protection (which were literally non-existent for most of the game). We are benching a bad player, but he is a bad player that is good at one of the things we have the most trouble with. The fact that he was benched for a washed up 6'7 center who is basically below average to bad at everything just makes it frustrating. I just really don't see the point of Maxiel over Biz at all. He is more competent offensively but he is still not a good offensive player in any way so I just don't understand it. As far as our rotation against Memphis, I am far more worried about Marvin and AL trying to guard Z-Bo and Gasol (especially the Marvin/Z-Bo matchup). I think it might be telling for how our season could go that Zeller looks like our best answer to opposing post players.

Al did decent against Gasol last year. Randolph is who I am worried about, and Biyombo cannot play PF. Randolph would foul him out in under 12 minutes if that was the case. We just have to let Stephenson and MKG take advantage of their mismatches in that game.

It is definitely true that Al looks a lot better on defense in the matchups where all he needs to do is bang and use his strength. Even though Biz isn't really a PF he could still offer a second line of help for whoever is the unfortunate soul getting thrashed by Z-Bo.

Maxiell matches up better at PF against Randolph than Biyombo does. So if anything I think Zeller may lose minutes Saturday.

[Braggins]

Al did decent against Gasol last year. Randolph is who I am worried about, and Biyombo cannot play PF. Randolph would foul him out in under 12 minutes if that was the case. We just have to let Stephenson and MKG take advantage of their mismatches in that game.

It is definitely true that Al looks a lot better on defense in the matchups where all he needs to do is bang and use his strength. Even though Biz isn't really a PF he could still offer a second line of help for whoever is the unfortunate soul getting thrashed by Z-Bo.

Maxiell matches up better at PF against Randolph than Biyombo does. So if anything I think Zeller may lose minutes Saturday.

Thats probably true. If they were directly matched up Z-Bo would have Biz jumping all over the place but Maxiell would still in all likelihood get dominated. The only way I see us limiting Z-Bo is if Biz plays heavy minutes at C for his help and we had Al, Zeller, or Maxiell matched up against Z-Bo. Given how Clifford has managed Biz though I don't see any of those scenarios playing out and even if they did Gasol can make you pay if you help too much on Z-Bo. Hopefully one of Memphis' bigs just randomly has a really bad day.

[Liver_Pooty]

It is definitely true that Al looks a lot better on defense in the matchups where all he needs to do is bang and use his strength. Even though Biz isn't really a PF he could still offer a second line of help for whoever is the unfortunate soul getting thrashed by Z-Bo.

Maxiell matches up better at PF against Randolph than Biyombo does. So if anything I think Zeller may lose minutes Saturday.

Thats probably true. If they were directly matched up Z-Bo would have Biz jumping all over the place but Maxiell would still in all likelihood get dominated. The only way I see us limiting Z-Bo is if Biz plays heavy minutes at C for his help and we had Al, Zeller, or Maxiell matched up against Z-Bo. Given how Clifford has managed Biz though I don't see any of those scenarios playing out and even if they did Gasol can make you pay if you help too much on Z-Bo. Hopefully one of Memphis' bigs just randomly has a really bad day.

McBob played OK last season against Randolph and hes not exactly known for his defense. Hes smart yes, but Marvin should be able to hold his own just fine. Biyombo getting heavy minutes at any point right now at center means we lose. Jeffersons double and triple teams that he commands on the offensive end is what brings us wins.

[catch20two]

We have a identity crisis. Are we a defensive team or not? That's my bone to pick with Clifford.