GT: Hornets @ Knicks Sun Nov 2 7:30PM EST

[Elden Payton]

I'm quickly losing faith in Clifford. I'm sick of Al. Alfense is garbage and only fuels the illusion that Al is actually a good player. We are going to be average at best on both ends of the floor and never make any kind of a playoff run with a team based around Al Jefferson. I was hoping our offense would be built around Kemba/Lance/MKG and our general athleticism this year and Al's minutes would go down to about 30 a game as we slowly phase him out in favor of our young core but no, we are going to continue running an system that benefits one player to the detriment of everyone else and barely keeps our heads above water as that player completely sabotages our defense. The secret is out now and everyone knows that all they have to do is constantly force Al to defend pick and rolls and abuse his lack of help side rotation and lack of ability to do anything even if he did rotate. I can already see issues with Lance later in the season when Clifford benches him for not being "organized" while Jefferson continues to get 35 minutes a night despite giving no effort or even paying attention on defense. I am already getting the feeling that Lance gets frustrated with constantly be left hanging out to dry on defense because of Jefferson. I can't wait for us to end the season barely above .500 and get bounced in the first round in quick fashion as a 6-8 seed and then extend Jefferson for like 20 million a year because he put up 20 and 10 again. Then we'll probably trade Lance for a backup SG who can shoot 3's because he fits in Alfense better. I seriously think we would be a better team if we just cut Al and started Biz at center (assuming Clifford actually has any idea how to coach offense since literally the only offense we've seen from his is Alfense, which is terrible). I'm not even joking.

Stopped reading after seeing you lose faith in Clifford. Hes a good head coach. Give me a break.

Clifford is a very good head coach but he is a prospect as the main man, he has much to learn and like all prospects, he can go either way in his development.

While I don't agree with losing faith in Clifford, it is an excellent post about the future of Alfense.

[Tupik]

Sure, there are obvious problems about this team, but come on, we just replaced two of our starters, we're only 3 games into the season, let's stop acting like it's panic mode time please.

[Diop]

Sure, there are obvious problems about this team, but come on, we just replaced two of our starters, we're only 3 games into the season, let's stop acting like it's panic mode time please.

AND 1


Going to have to give myself a warning here, this is borderline post padding. Use the And 1 button or add something to the discussion.

Still, I totally agree with Tupik

[LamarMatic7]

I wanted to give Marvin the benefit of the doubt, and he had a really good first game, but overall even on the defensive end which is something I thought I would never say Zeller has outplayed him.

So far I feel like Marv does what he's supposed to do but nothing extra on defense. Zeller, meanwhile, actually has played well on defense and makes plays on that end.

[mrknowitall215]

I wanted to give Marvin the benefit of the doubt, and he had a really good first game, but overall even on the defensive end which is something I thought I would never say Zeller has outplayed him.

So far I feel like Marv does what he's supposed to do but nothing extra on defense. Zeller, meanwhile, actually has played well on defense and makes plays on that end.

This, which is the exact reason why I was hoping Zeller would win the starting PF spot, but unfortunately it was never up for competition. Not only is Zeller a better defender than Williams, but I feel like he's a more assertive offensive threat with the way he attack the rim and set solid screens, without mentioning that he can pass well for a 7-footer

[mrknowitall215]

I knew we were in for a rough start to this season once I seen how things were coming together from training camp to the preseason, so I'm probably not as disappointed as others. However, this wasn't as bad of a loss as it may seem. The Knicks had a lot of luck, making a couple of desperation heave shots down the stretch and some home-cooked officiating. Let's not forget that this very same Knicks team knocked off the Eastern Conference favorite Cavaliers before playing us, so they're nothing to sneeze at even though they may look like a joke from the past

[yosemiteben]

I wanted to give Marvin the benefit of the doubt, and he had a really good first game, but overall even on the defensive end which is something I thought I would never say Zeller has outplayed him.

So far I feel like Marv does what he's supposed to do but nothing extra on defense. Zeller, meanwhile, actually has played well on defense and makes plays on that end.

This, which is the exact reason why I was hoping Zeller would win the starting PF spot, but unfortunately it was never up for competition. Not only is Zeller a better defender than Williams, but I feel like he's a more assertive offensive threat with the way he attack the rim and set solid screens, without mentioning that he can pass well for a 7-footer

All of which are good reasons to bring him in with the second unit, which needs more help offensively and defensively than our first line.

[mrknowitall215]

So far I feel like Marv does what he's supposed to do but nothing extra on defense. Zeller, meanwhile, actually has played well on defense and makes plays on that end.

This, which is the exact reason why I was hoping Zeller would win the starting PF spot, but unfortunately it was never up for competition. Not only is Zeller a better defender than Williams, but I feel like he's a more assertive offensive threat with the way he attack the rim and set solid screens, without mentioning that he can pass well for a 7-footer

All of which are good reasons to bring him in with the second unit, which needs more help offensively and defensively than our first line.

It's best to 'start' your best all-around positional players like Zeller and bring the one-dimensional players like Williams off the bench. If teams were to use your method here, the best players at their position would be backing up the lesser talents. Zeller's skill sets fit in perfect with the our starting lineup

[yosemiteben]

This, which is the exact reason why I was hoping Zeller would win the starting PF spot, but unfortunately it was never up for competition. Not only is Zeller a better defender than Williams, but I feel like he's a more assertive offensive threat with the way he attack the rim and set solid screens, without mentioning that he can pass well for a 7-footer

All of which are good reasons to bring him in with the second unit, which needs more help offensively and defensively than our first line.

It's best to 'start' your best all-around positional players like Zeller and bring the one-dimensional players like Williams off the bench. If teams were to use your method here, the best players at their position would be backing up the lesser talents. Zeller's skill sets fit in perfect with the our starting lineup

Teams bring superior talent off the bench all the time, especially when they need a scoring punch from the second line. Harden and Jackson at OKC, Ginobli for SAS, arguably Crawford for LAC, Smith for NYK, Gibson for CHI last season, etc. IMO it'll diminish Zeller's effectiveness if he comes in with the starters. Marvin's primary value is spreading the floor for Al. There is no point in spreading the floor with the second line because whether it's Biz or Maxiell we aren't going to have a big the can score in the post. Zeller has shown the ability to be an opportunistic scorer that can get to the basket and FT line, which is going to be much more valuable with the second line.

Think I've said this before, but I still like the idea of starting Marvin and bringing Zeller off the bench but feeding the hot hand and allowing whoever is being most effective to close out the game. Give Zeller 25-30 MPG and Marvin 20-25 MPG.

[mrknowitall215]

All of which are good reasons to bring him in with the second unit, which needs more help offensively and defensively than our first line.

It's best to 'start' your best all-around positional players like Zeller and bring the one-dimensional players like Williams off the bench. If teams were to use your method here, the best players at their position would be backing up the lesser talents. Zeller's skill sets fit in perfect with the our starting lineup

Teams bring superior talent off the bench all the time, especially when they need a scoring punch from the second line. Harden and Jackson at OKC, Ginobli for SAS, arguably Crawford for LAC, Smith for NYK, Gibson for CHI last season, etc. IMO it'll diminish Zeller's effectiveness if he comes in with the starters. Marvin's primary value is spreading the floor for Al. There is no point in spreading the floor with the second line because whether it's Biz or Maxiell we aren't going to have a big the can score in the post. Zeller has shown the ability to be an opportunistic scorer that can get to the basket and FT line, which is going to be much more valuable with the second line.

Think I've said this before, but I still like the idea of starting Marvin and bringing Zeller off the bench but feeding the hot hand and allowing whoever is being most effective to close out the game. Give Zeller 25-30 MPG and Marvin 20-25 MPG.

Well, the players that you named are all instant offense prototypes, and Zeller doesn't fall into that category

The starting lineup w/ Williams has performed miserably together despite playing the most minutes together, with a offensive rating of 80.4, a defensive rating of 111.4, and a net rating of -31.1

If you replace Williams with Zeller playing alongside the starters, our offensive rating is 94.3 and the defensive rating is 31.8, with a net rating of +62.6

[Benjamin Linus]

I'd like to see Clifford play around with the lineups a bit. It seemed like the Spurs threw out all sorts of crazy lineups last season, even though that's probably easier when you have loads of talent and a deep bench. But yeah, I'd like to see Zeller start or at least try it out for a game or two. Why not? See if it works better than what they're doing now.

If MKG misses time, I'd like to see us start Al-Zeller-Lance-Neal-Kemba

[yosemiteben]

It's best to 'start' your best all-around positional players like Zeller and bring the one-dimensional players like Williams off the bench. If teams were to use your method here, the best players at their position would be backing up the lesser talents. Zeller's skill sets fit in perfect with the our starting lineup

Teams bring superior talent off the bench all the time, especially when they need a scoring punch from the second line. Harden and Jackson at OKC, Ginobli for SAS, arguably Crawford for LAC, Smith for NYK, Gibson for CHI last season, etc. IMO it'll diminish Zeller's effectiveness if he comes in with the starters. Marvin's primary value is spreading the floor for Al. There is no point in spreading the floor with the second line because whether it's Biz or Maxiell we aren't going to have a big the can score in the post. Zeller has shown the ability to be an opportunistic scorer that can get to the basket and FT line, which is going to be much more valuable with the second line.

Think I've said this before, but I still like the idea of starting Marvin and bringing Zeller off the bench but feeding the hot hand and allowing whoever is being most effective to close out the game. Give Zeller 25-30 MPG and Marvin 20-25 MPG.

Well, the players that you named are all instant offense prototypes, and Zeller doesn't fall into that category

The starting lineup w/ Williams has performed miserably together despite playing the most minutes together, with a offensive rating of 80.4, a defensive rating of 111.4, and a net rating of -31.1

If you replace Williams with Zeller playing alongside the starters, our offensive rating is 94.3 and the defensive rating is 31.8, with a net rating of +62.6

I think in terms of offensive fit Zeller makes WAY more sense in the second unit. It's too early to use advanced stats like net stats IMO.

[mrknowitall215]

Teams bring superior talent off the bench all the time, especially when they need a scoring punch from the second line. Harden and Jackson at OKC, Ginobli for SAS, arguably Crawford for LAC, Smith for NYK, Gibson for CHI last season, etc. IMO it'll diminish Zeller's effectiveness if he comes in with the starters. Marvin's primary value is spreading the floor for Al. There is no point in spreading the floor with the second line because whether it's Biz or Maxiell we aren't going to have a big the can score in the post. Zeller has shown the ability to be an opportunistic scorer that can get to the basket and FT line, which is going to be much more valuable with the second line.

Think I've said this before, but I still like the idea of starting Marvin and bringing Zeller off the bench but feeding the hot hand and allowing whoever is being most effective to close out the game. Give Zeller 25-30 MPG and Marvin 20-25 MPG.

Well, the players that you named are all instant offense prototypes, and Zeller doesn't fall into that category

The starting lineup w/ Williams has performed miserably together despite playing the most minutes together, with a offensive rating of 80.4, a defensive rating of 111.4, and a net rating of -31.1

If you replace Williams with Zeller playing alongside the starters, our offensive rating is 94.3 and the defensive rating is 31.8, with a net rating of +62.6

I think in terms of offensive fit Zeller makes WAY more sense in the second unit. It's too early to use advanced stats like net stats IMO.

Small sample size indeed, but I still don't understand your argument that Zeller make WAY more sense for the 2nd unit if neither unit is working well together, but Zeller has played well with the starters

[mrknowitall215]

If MKG misses time, I'd like to see us start Al-Zeller-Lance-Neal-Kemba

That has been our 2nd best performing lineup so far this season

[yosemiteben]

We scored 30 points in the third quarter and just 13 points in the fourth quarter. Wow.