Rookie Tracker: Aaron & Elf

[Bensational]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24780059/early-impressions-orlando-magic-rookie-elfrid-payton

It's too early to take away anything meaningful from the NBA season. Even a month worth of play isn't going to tell you anything you can take away as definitive. But you can at least get a sense of things like skillsets, mindset, playsets, teasets, really any kind of sets. Here's an early impression of Elfrid Payton.

The Magic rookie has impressed me the most of his classmates through these measely three games, but as opposed to last year, this isn't the case of simply "sucking the least."

Payton has shown both tangible skills that provide a lot of promise for him as a long-term option at guard, and intangible elements that impress in terms of his demeanor.

I love this kid. he just has that special "superstar" vibe about him.

this quote, says it best:

Offensively, he's been phenomenal. Particularly, his passing. He's got vision, touch, and his passes are what I call "functionally styled." They have some flair, but they're not unnecessarily so. It's not razzle dazzle, it's vexing the defense.

And his jumper looked alright. I think he hit 2/4 jumpers last night from the elbow of the key - not bad.

[Orlwillbeback]

If elfrid can make that midrange jumper part of his full time arsenal.... man he can be good.

[MagicFan32]

not impressed much by aaron gordon at all, i just see a very athletic guy with limited skill when he has the ball. not an offensive threat at all outside 3 feet

[WillyJakkz]

Elfrid had himself quite a game against an offensive minded PG like Lowry who is also a pretty scrappy defender.

Great game, I hope he keeps his confidence up and just plays instead of over thinking the game.

[paperboymafia]

not impressed much by aaron gordon at all, i just see a very athletic guy with limited skill when he has the ball. not an offensive threat at all outside 3 feet

he can hit the 3

[Blue_and_Whte]

not impressed much by aaron gordon at all, i just see a very athletic guy with limited skill when he has the ball. not an offensive threat at all outside 3 feet

he can hit the 3

"He can hit the three" is a broad statement. Occasionally he can hit an open 3 but he's not blowing teams away with his accuracy. Im not saying he wont improve, but he is not a consistent 3pt shooter yet.

I am impressed with his sound defensive fundamentals. I can legitimately say im comfortable with Vaughn putting him on opposing teams best wing players to generate stops. Thats why im so frustrated with Vaughn for not putting AG or Harkless on DeRozan to close out that game.
Even against the Wiz why weren't either of those guys on Pierce?

Even in preseason Payton gradually improved as he became accustomed to the games. So it doesnt surprise me that we've seen a gradual improvment over these last 3 games.

People need to realize that thus far he's matched up with Jrue Holiday, John Wall, and Kyle Lowry. Thats a pretty damn tough schedule for starting rookie PG to take on. I think hes handled himself pretty well all things considering.

[Furinkazan]

not impressed much by aaron gordon at all, i just see a very athletic guy with limited skill when he has the ball. not an offensive threat at all outside 3 feet

he can hit the 3

so do I but it doesnt make me Travis Diener

[NBAchamps2017]

not impressed much by aaron gordon at all, i just see a very athletic guy with limited skill when he has the ball. not an offensive threat at all outside 3 feet

Reminds me of Bo Outlaw so far. Well, need to wait until he become Blake Griffin. Now, he's Bo 2.0

[paperboymafia]

not impressed much by aaron gordon at all, i just see a very athletic guy with limited skill when he has the ball. not an offensive threat at all outside 3 feet

he can hit the 3

so do I but it doesnt make me Travis Diener

Unfair comparison, amigo. No one can be Travis Diener but Travis Diener.

[Last Guardian]

As rookies, both have one elite/almost elite skill...Elfrid with passing/vision and Aaron with 1-on-1 defense. That is already a lot more than you can ask for from a rookie.

Elfrid is learning to balance passing with scoring...he knows he needs to be a threat to open up more passing opportunities. He is also pretty good at defense.

Aaron dribbling is really tight. Hopefully he can start using it to score. He has the athleticism to finish...no question about it. His jumpshot is alright.

I feel confident saying they are the future 1 and 3 of this team (unless Aaron has a growth spurt and becomes a 4)

[nicnac215]

not impressed much by aaron gordon at all, i just see a very athletic guy with limited skill when he has the ball. not an offensive threat at all outside 3 feet

Give him some time on offense. His defense is the most polished I have seen for a rookie his age in quite some time.

[ValHoffa]

at the end of the day both of these guys are rookies so of course they have a lot to work on.

Payton - looks like a really good playmaker & defender that has to work on his jump shot which is the least of something you worry about with a point guard, you can develop a jump shot a million times easier than developing a guys vision, playmaking & defending.

i also love Gordons potential…. i love his commitment on defence, ability to run the floor, ability to throw it down and i can see a 3 pt shot in progress… you can't not love his athleticism

[doct3r dr3]

Elfrid getting a lot of love on the Sixers' SBNation blog. Ranked #1 rookie through week 1 (over their own Nerlens Noel):

http://www.libertyballers.com/2014/11/3 ... ari-parker

And now, the week 1 rankings:

1. Elfrid Payton (Magic)

Number of Note: Leads all rookies with 7.7 assists per game

Elfrid Payton has started the season running. Without Victor Oladipo, Payton has inherited the point guard reigns in Orlando and has not disappointed. His minutes might decline when Oladipo returns, especially if the Oladipo-at-point experiment resurfaces. However, if Magic coach Jacque Vaughn even thinks of reducing Payton's minutes so that Ben Gordon sees the court, Vaughn should be axed immediately. Payton needs to play as much as possible, and Gordon should not derail that.

[Bensational]

not impressed much by aaron gordon at all, i just see a very athletic guy with limited skill when he has the ball. not an offensive threat at all outside 3 feet

he can hit the 3

"He can hit the three" is a broad statement. Occasionally he can hit an open 3 but he's not blowing teams away with his accuracy. Im not saying he wont improve, but he is not a consistent 3pt shooter yet.

you're right, teams aren't factoring his shot in on their defensive plan, but hopefully he can use that to his advantage, same as Harkless and his corner 3.

throughout preseason he was hitting 3's at Harkless' rate, and with a higher percentage.

by the end of the season, I reckon he'll be good for 2 attempts a game and just under 1 make a game. if he really starts to find his shot, we may see even more attempts - i guess it depends on how they plan on developing him.

[tooler]

However, if Magic coach Jacque Vaughn even thinks of reducing Payton's minutes so that Ben Gordon sees the court, Vaughn should be axed immediately.

Well said, friends.

Payton needs to play as much as possible, and Gordon should not derail that.

Good time to bring up this Utah Jazz blog analysis again on star rookie point guard minutes.

[tooler]

I'm really excited to see if Payton can keep his assist numbers up throughout the course of a season. It's so fun seeing him in the top 10 even at only 28 mpg.

I was messing around at basketball-reference this morning. In this microscopic sample size, he's in the top 5 all-time for AST/36 among rookies with at least 5 APG (to remove the low-minutes outliers).

Yeah, 79 games to go, but I think he'll stay in the ballpark.

[The-Power]

After watching several games of your team this year (can't wait to see Oladipo back in action by the way), I'm actually convinced that AG is going to have a good career in the NBA. Picking him at 4 was a risky move based solely on potential but his potential is for real in my opinion.

AG has elite athleticism, plays hard on the defensive end and allegedly has a great work ethic. Add really good ball-handling skills, the basics of a jumpshot as well as his extremely young age (and therefore little experience) and I really don't see him fail. Guys like him, i.e. a great but unpolished skill set paired with an adequate mentality, are only going to get better.

You (almost) never know a priori if the guy you draft becomes a franchise player (resp. a player on that level) but considering how many question marks are over other high-drafted rookies this year (Exum and Wiggins are also extremely raw, Parker's role isn't ultimately defined yet, Smart looks really bad so far, Embiid's health might be an issue and so on) I like AG as a project for you guys.

Is the mood among you guys already tensed or are most fans content with the pick and the negative voices are a minority? If not, why? Because you don't see the skills I think he has, because you don't expect much development for the future or because he can't produce right away? Or are people looking at other rookies and actually criticize a missed opportunity?

[Orlwillbeback]

After watching several games of your team this year (can't wait to see Oladipo back in action by the way), I'm actually convinced that AG is going to have a good career in the NBA. Picking him at 4 was a risky move based solely on potential but his potential is for real in my opinion.

AG has elite athleticism, plays hard on the defensive end and allegedly has a great work ethic. Add really good ball-handling skills, the basics of a jumpshot as well as his extremely young age (and therefore little experience) and I really don't see him fail. Guys like him, i.e. a great but unpolished skill set paired with an adequate mentality, are only going to get better.

You (almost) never know a priori if the guy you draft becomes a franchise player (resp. a player on that level) but considering how many question marks are over other high-drafted rookies this year (Exum and Wiggins are also extremely raw, Parker's role isn't ultimately defined yet, Smart looks really bad so far, Embiid's health might be an issue and so on) I like AG as a project for you guys.

Is the mood among you guys already tensed or are most fans content with the pick and the negative voices are a minority? If not, why? Because you don't see the skills I think he has, because you don't expect much development for the future or because he can't produce right away? Or are people looking at other rookies and actually criticize a missed opportunity?

I think AG can be good but so far not convinced he can be better than exum.

[tooler]

Is the mood among you guys already tensed or are most fans content with the pick and the negative voices are a minority? If not, why? Because you don't see the skills I think he has, because you don't expect much development for the future or because he can't produce right away? Or are people looking at other rookies and actually criticize a missed opportunity?

If I may be so bold as to summarize the storyline on the forum as I saw it:

People were generally pissed when the Magic didn't pick Exum. I think most people got over it when they saw how gassed and raw he looked in SL. I've rarely seen him mentioned since then, though based on the above post, some people are still skeptical!

AG looked pretty bad in SL too. I remember a lot of people were worried. The saying is that looking good in SL doesn't mean anything, but looking bad is a bad sign. Personally, I had planned to ignore him this season as someone too raw to pay attention to.

That all changed 2-3 games into preseason. He hit a few 3s, grabbed a lot of rebounds, played nice 1-on-1 defense in terms of the eye test, and carved out a niche for himself as a high-motor guy who could grab putbacks and contribute on both ends of the floor. What's funny is Elfrid Payton had a few bad games right around then, and we all flip-flopped back to being more excited about Aaron.

I think most of us believe he's found a role he should be able to maintain throughout the regular season. It's still early though. He only played 5 minutes in the previous game after picking up 3 quick fouls. I think it's safe to say most of us would be happy to see him play 20-30 mpg this season. Opinions might be mixed about his future since it's so hard to say.

[The-Power]

[...]

Thanks for the insight!

I like the fact that he plays within his role and doesn't overdo things. That's one part of what I meant when I mentioned his mindset. He could easily do more stupid things in order to present himself as a fourth pick but keeps calm instead and plays smart. I understand anyone who might be a little bit impatient - but as someone on the sidelines I really appreciate the way he played up to this point. With his development comes an extended role, that's a safe bet to me.

I noticed all the talk about Exum before the draft, but I thought with all the praise for Payton it's pretty much a non-issue by now. Let's see how things progress. I'll definitely follow the Magic the next seasons because I really like the talent you guys have.