Source: Knicks/Pacers talked JR for Cope swap

[PMFJB]

Yep dude Tank Tank Tank that solves everything right? Let's be really crappy this year right? That will convince the veteran Marc Gasol or LaMarcus Aldridge to come here over their current situation with more money... You tank fiends are delusional. We have a solid role player on a great contract for the next two years and you wanna jettison him for that no defense playing, Britney Griner looking ass shooter who can literally do nothing but, hoist up shots. And in the same breath you probably hate on Amare for playing no defense. Yeah dude let's suck this year because every big name free agent loves being the difference maker on the 11th seed in the East. Be real, Marc Gasol isn't coming here unless he knows he's the missing piece to a championship contender. You can scream New York, Phil or whatever you wanna claim trumps the **** of our team but, I can guarantee you no all star vet is salivating at the chance to play with the unproven Emmanuel Mudiay. Just look at what happened with Lebron and Wiggins this summer and he's a way better prospect than Mudiay....

Let me get this straight. You think JR Smith AND Amare are valuable to this team?

Although your gif is quite hilarious, I was making the comparison that you want Cope here, but as soon as he gets here people are going to complain that he plays no defense similar to Amare. I think Amare's contract situation makes him not valuable to the team simply because his production doesn't match what we pay him. But, J.R. on his current contract is way more valuable than people (you) give him credit for. Certainly more valuable than a Cope expiring to a bad team who will have to waive Melo and essentially a lottery ticket in a free agent's face to say "Come join our team we're going to be really good ...maybe!"

Amare disgusts me right now. I have not seen him try this heard since his 1st year here. And why is he doing it? Because its a contract year.

I hate him and I hate Walsh for tanking for 2 years and giving this guy that ridiculous contract after the best trainers in the league said he would be a shell of his former self in a few years.

[waya]

Although your gif is quite hilarious, I was making the comparison that you want Cope here, but as soon as he gets here people are going to complain that he plays no defense similar to Amare. I think Amare's contract situation makes him not valuable to the team simply because his production doesn't match what we pay him. But, J.R. on his current contract is way more valuable than people (you) give him credit for. Certainly more valuable than a Cope expiring to a bad team who will have to waive Melo and essentially a lottery ticket in a free agent's face to say "Come join our team we're going to be really good ...maybe!"

I think you're overestimating JR's influence here. I really doubt him staying or going will be the difference in us being a playoff team or a lottery team. On his day, he's a game changer but he's too damn inconsistent and dumb to play the right way on a regular basis. He'll attack the basket, create off the dribble, etc for a handful of games and then only take contested fadeaways for the next 5 or 6. His rebounding is usually pretty good for a guard, but he's a non-factor defensively. But my biggest concern is that he'll never buy into the system. He's making a habit of waving off options in the triangle not named Melo, and is usually late to either set the down screen or come off it when the pass is made into pinch post.

[kane]

i get alot of people dont like JR but cope was one of those guys that was lucky to even make the roster then got the ex-knick pay raise and honestly i dont really want him back

[OminousEther]

nuh uh
TIMMY!!!

timmy aint that good

Neither is Chump

Shumpert makes the team better, Timmy does not.

[Moose]

i get alot of people dont like JR but cope was one of those guys that was lucky to even make the roster then got the ex-knick pay raise and honestly i dont really want him back

This is more about trading JR without giving up assets than anything else. If he sucks, gets hurt, or opts in, you would have to shed that salary using THjr or a first rounder.

Trade him while you can.

[kane]

i get alot of people dont like JR but cope was one of those guys that was lucky to even make the roster then got the ex-knick pay raise and honestly i dont really want him back

This is more about trading JR without giving up assets than anything else. If he sucks, gets hurt, or opts in, you would have to shed that salary using THjr or a first rounder.

Trade him while you can.

yeah i know to clear cap space for next year, but we get rid of JR for nothing (er for slow melo) that makes this team alot worse and i do think record effects your chance of landing a top FA so that extra cap space might just go to overpaying our 3rd option

[King of Canada]

Only on this Knicks board does a non story get 17 pages in one day.

[moocow007]

Only on this Knicks board does a non story get 17 pages in one day.

For the sanctity of shoelaces everywhere this thread needs to go to 20 pages!

[Wildcat]

Amare disgusts me right now. I have not seen him try this heard since his 1st year here. And why is he doing it? Because its a contract year.

I hate him and I hate Walsh for tanking for 2 years and giving this guy that ridiculous contract after the best trainers in the league said he would be a shell of his former self in a few years.

Don't let your hate for A'mare blind you to his work ethics. He's been working for years to get back to consistent play and doing what the coaching staff wants. Come off the bench? You got it. He clearly wants to win and has always been a team player.

It's not hard to believe he wants to be apart the cultural change with the Knicks. He proved it last year and he's obvious proving it this year if you associate his better play for a mere mid-tier contract. Injury prone or not, A'mare won't have a hard time finding a place to hang his shoes.

[Moose]

i get alot of people dont like JR but cope was one of those guys that was lucky to even make the roster then got the ex-knick pay raise and honestly i dont really want him back

This is more about trading JR without giving up assets than anything else. If he sucks, gets hurt, or opts in, you would have to shed that salary using THjr or a first rounder.

Trade him while you can.

yeah i know to clear cap space for next year, but we get rid of JR for nothing (er for slow melo) that makes this team alot worse and i do think record effects your chance of landing a top FA so that extra cap space might just go to overpaying our 3rd option

I have a hard time believing that. This team isn't good. People forget the plan 3 games into the season. I'm not sure Marc Gasol is going to change his mind to sign with the Knicks whether this team wins 38 games or 42 games. If he wants to play in NY, with Melo, for 18mill a year (too much, but that is what it may take), under Phil and Fisher in a system that is perfect for him, he will decide to do that. Odds are, being a gifted and competitive athlete, he will believe that he and Melo can make the Knicks a 50-win team. Then you have Phil Jackson discussing his plan, and Marc can start putting the puzzle together.

You can't sign free agents if you don't have the cap space. Get the cap space. JR Smith is not someone you want if you want to a winning culture. Even in the year he went off, he collapsed in the playoffs. He then does foolish thing after foolish thing. His athleticism will only dwindle further.

You are better off getting rid of his 6.4 mill contract and combining that with the hopefully 4-6 million in cap space you have left after signing Marc Gasol. So we are talking about signing a 10-12 million dollar player or multiple players. And that is all possible by shipping out JR before he opts in.

And again, if he opts in, you have to add the assets to just ship him out of here. I rather get something back in return (yes, I want better than Copeland, but we'll see what is out there and you take what you can), than add a first or THjr.

The other plus side is, if we ship out JR, there is a small chance we can hold onto Shump, at least without renouncing him and his cap hold. But that remains to be seen (and see if he actually deserves to be held onto).

[DishAndSwish]

Only on this Knicks board does a non story get 17 pages in one day.

For the sanctity of shoelaces everywhere this thread needs to go to 20 pages!

Contributing.

[Anotha Knicks fan]

Only on this Knicks board does a non story get 17 pages in one day.

For the sanctity of shoelaces everywhere this thread needs to go to 20 pages!

Contributing.

Winning!

[Johnny Hoops]

There are very few posters who are is as big of a JR fan as me. That said, I think unless we're going all out to make the playoffs this year (which I don't necessarily think is true, I think we're somewhat concerned with looking at our young players and maybe adding assets), it's more important to a) clear 2015 capspace and b) give Tim (and Early?) bigger minutes.

Honestly Cope does both of those while also giving us a good 3 point shooter who can play SF/PF. I also think that this is one of those trades that would've had to have been done before the season. JR is perfect for Indiana, but the more they play Copeland (which they will)... the less they'll want to trade him. Then again, if they struggle hard it might entice them even more to pursue JR.

If giving THJ minutes was a priority of ours, we would be giving him minutes right now

Unless we are trying to show the rest of the league that JR is healthy and behaving himself in order to facilitate a trade. If we were to bench JR for Timmy -- that doesn't help JRs trade value.

Just saying -- there could be alternative motives in play --- despite Timmy needing to improve his defense dramatically.

[GONYK]

There are very few posters who are is as big of a JR fan as me. That said, I think unless we're going all out to make the playoffs this year (which I don't necessarily think is true, I think we're somewhat concerned with looking at our young players and maybe adding assets), it's more important to a) clear 2015 capspace and b) give Tim (and Early?) bigger minutes.

Honestly Cope does both of those while also giving us a good 3 point shooter who can play SF/PF. I also think that this is one of those trades that would've had to have been done before the season. JR is perfect for Indiana, but the more they play Copeland (which they will)... the less they'll want to trade him. Then again, if they struggle hard it might entice them even more to pursue JR.

If giving THJ minutes was a priority of ours, we would be giving him minutes right now

Unless we are trying to show the rest of the league that JR is healthy and behaving himself in order to facilitate a trade. If we were to bench JR for Timmy -- that doesn't help JRs trade value.

Just saying -- there could be alternative motives in play --- despite Timmy needing to improve his defense dramatically.

Not really. I feel like people overplay this "pump up a player's value" angle to justify their viewpoint.

I am an Occam's Razor type of person. The simplest answer is most likely the correct one.

JR is better than Timmy in pretty much every way. That is why he plays and Timmy does not. Fisher is trying to change the culture by holding people accountable and winning games. That is his first priority, and there is no reason to believe it is not way higher than any other priority.

JR doesn't need his value pumped up. He's been in the league 10 years. He's a known commodity with a fixed value.

[ozwizard8]

jr's contract is fine. he started season decently. if he continues like that we would be good team.
most of board hates him but when he plays good we get a much better team.

he got SPOY award at 12-13 season and we got 2nd seed in East.
last year he came from injury and he was horrible we were like 76ers. when he plays well in last 2 months we got better winning ratio and made a playoff push.

if jr plays good here we'll be in top 5 in East.
also i like his contract too.

i also liked copeland. we should kept him last year. but hey he's only 1 step further then C.Early. copeland expiring deal isnt worth anything.