RealGM Top 100 List #49

[penbeast0]

Fixed . . . and a tie. I will be back in around 5 hours, hopefully we can get some more votes.

[Owly]

Dikembe Mutombo - Chuck Texas, tsherkin, Doctor MJ, SactoKingsFan, penbeast0, john 248

Allen Iverson - Joao Saraiva, Basketballefan, E-Balla, DQuinn1575, trex_8063, ronnymac2, Clyde Frazier

I just voted for Dikembe.

As did I. Bottom of post 107.

[ceiling raiser]

I don't think I can comfortably vote for either right now (would lean Mutombo).

ThaRegul8r had a good post that might be relevant here (Deke, AI, and the 01 ECF):

viewtopic.php?p=28684618#p28684618

and ShaqAttack had a nice thread on 94 Mutombo:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1276951

[trex_8063]

They didn't. Nuggets SRS WAS WORSE IN 2009. Their offense also was worse. Explain that if Billups was really so better fit and so on.

The offense went from 11th to 7th.

+2.5 in 2008, +2.1 in 2009...

And what with SRS? Do you admit 2009 team was worse or at least not better? If no, then why?

As for 2009 playoff run - please, explain why they lost to eventual finalist, exactly the same as 2008 Nuggets...

I don't think it would be convenient to answer to these points, particular considering it wasn't merely as simple as a Iverson for Billups swap: There was also the NON-injuried and maturing version of Nene Hilario in '09 at play, too.

[penbeast0]

OK, then with Owly's vote, looks we are sexing up Mutombo for the top 50.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

As I said earlier, check the post-Issel Nuggets. With still pretty mediocre but not disastrous bigs defensively (the biggest 2 were Danny Schayes and Wayne Cooper), the Nuggs were a top 10 defense 4 of the last 5 years of the 80s while English was still their best offensive player. It's just disguised a bit by the Nuggets continuing to play at a very fast pace. As for the first 5 years, they were great offensively (top 5 every year, 1st twice) but Scottie Pippen couldn't carry a C/F combination of Dan Issel and Kiki Vandeweghe to a decent defensive rating.

Rplacing Kiki with Cooper, Natt and Lever changed the Nuggets. I think Cooper is underrated. Cooper is not one of those Giants who dominates the paint but Cooper has impressive blocks per minutes numbers. Natt was probably a significant upgrade over Kiki defensively. Lever did amazing things and forced turnovers.

Denver became an elite turnover forcing team with Cooper, Lever and Natt and they defended 3s well but they still were near the bottom of the NBA at opponents 2 point ft percentage.

Okay, but then does English get credit for being a key component of that defensive improvement? After all, creating turnovers and guarding 3's is more the job of the wing than the big men where 2 pt fg percentage tends to be more affected by big man d. And yeah, Wayne Cooper was solid, but he wasn't a Dikembe Mutombo or even Theo Ratliff. He was a solid NBA rotation big or marginal starter. Natt didn't last long physically and was replaced by Danny Schayes who was average offensively and defensively with Cooper shifting to reserve or sometimes PF.

English deserves some credit for for forcing turnovers and defending the 3.
I don't see Denver ever being a good defensive team during English's time there.



I see Issel and Cooper and later Schayes and Cooper both playing mostly Center. It reminds me of how David Lee has spent almost half of his minutes defending centers because the Knicks and pre Bogut Warriors just didn't have any bigger men that were worthy of getting playing time. For the Nuggets to get bigger they had to play Blair Rasmussen and that is not a very appealing idea.

We don't know how English would have been as a replacement for Iverson as the offensive go to guy on the 76ers because we never saw prime English on a team that did not have other good scoring options.