Knicks Vs. Magic PG Discomfiture

[Bklyn&company]

Fisher needs to find a rotation and have guys gels.... win or loose at this point. Like I said in the beginning of the year Barg is not playing more than 40 games. Calderon will be back soon. Fisher must still stick to some rotation and play your best defensive man, period. Acy and Cole should be in that rotation... he took two of our best rebounders and weakness side defenders out.. for what who know? We need to play those who will fight for rebounds, play hard defense and dive on the floor first before playing one trick ponys like Jason Smith.

[NoLayupRule]

ok looks like

Celtics have Clippers pick from Doc Rivers trade
Cavs get Kings pick if not top 10 but Bulls would take the swap
Cavs get Griz pick if not top 5 or 15-30, which is a crazy protection
New Orleans gets Houston's pick if not top 3 or 20-30, again odd protection
Lakers get Rockets pick if not top 14
cHeat get Cavs pick if not top 10 which would then transfer to 76ers
Suns get Wolves pick if not in top 12


looks like the suns have theirs and the wolves picks
Celtics have theirs, which they can swap with Nets if they want, and the Clips
Cavs probably send the kings pick to Bulls and get the bulls pick, and the Griz pick and send their to the 76ers via cHeat
New Orleans has theirs and Houstons picks
76ers have theirs and the Cavs picks

[NoLayupRule]

my issue with the tank brigade is that I simply don't see us being worse than the 8th or 9th worst team in the league no matter how much we suck

I don't want to watch us suck, continue to be a laughing stock of the league, scare away free agents and develop a losing mentality all for the 8th pick

if we got one of the top 3 it might be worth it but we all know that unless you land a top 3-4 pick in the draft you might as well trade down and try to get two players ... with some notable exceptions of course. I know that Steph Curry went 1 over our 8th pick and there have been all stars picked middle of the road but mostly its just good players, nothing franchise changing.

anyone know who has multiple picks this coming draft?

If Melo roles that ankle one game and misses a good chunk of time best believe we are just as bad as the sixers.

true that

[GONYK]

Players may or may not be moved in December. Fisher is playing with house money, so he might as well see what gels. Should he have done it in preseason? He did, but he couldn't find a mix of offense and defense. The problem is, with this roster, there isn' one.

You also can't want wins, and also not want JR and Amare to play. Outside of Melo and recently Shump, those are the only people on the team who can create offense. It's either you lose to Orlando by two or you lose by 15. Either way, people will complain.


Also, Amare has been playing well, so step off

I'm not going to get into amare playing well because he destroys are entire defense when he is in so anything he does offensively is offset by that. But we don't need to go down that road.

You say you can't want wins and also not JR and Amare to play. They have played 9 games and we are 2-7 so it doesn't seem like either is effecting Wins and Losses, well actually they are effecting losses.

And that is what idiots do, they lose games.

Are you saying we would be 1-8 if Cleanthony Early got all of JR's minutes and Cole got all of Amares minutes.

I might say we would be better than 2-7 because those guys would play more within the system and play better defense. that would be progress.

Watching to dummies play stupid basketball isn't progress.

You yourself come on and post a "I don't care" gif after we lose. So I am with you on that I don't care either. So lets not care with actually players who play the game of basketball the right way.

THAT SIR IS PROGRESS.

I don't care about the lack of talent I want the game played the right way and the system played the right way and those two idiots wont change, because they are who they are.

I as a fan don't care about W's and L's. Fisher as a coach does, and he's playing the players who give him the best change to win. That's why we aren't tanking. We're just not talented.

Most players on this team murder our defense. Not sure why Amare is being singled out. Especially when his man-to-man D has been pretty solid and his rebounding has been damn good. 11/8 on 50% shooting in 24 mins is great from a backup, no matter how it is sliced.

JR on the other hand needs a shorter leash. He would have one too if Shump stops picking up 4 fouls a half.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Players may or may not be moved in December. Fisher is playing with house money, so he might as well see what gels. Should he have done it in preseason? He did, but he couldn't find a mix of offense and defense. The problem is, with this roster, there isn' one.

You also can't want wins, and also not want JR and Amare to play. Outside of Melo and recently Shump, those are the only people on the team who can create offense. It's either you lose to Orlando by two or you lose by 15. Either way, people will complain.


Also, Amare has been playing well, so step off

For every drive JR creates, there's another player's drive where catches the ball and holds it while the offense resets. For every three he makes in the 2nd quarter, he bricks 2 in the last 5 minutes of the game. He is a net negative offensive player.

[GONYK]

Players may or may not be moved in December. Fisher is playing with house money, so he might as well see what gels. Should he have done it in preseason? He did, but he couldn't find a mix of offense and defense. The problem is, with this roster, there isn' one.

You also can't want wins, and also not want JR and Amare to play. Outside of Melo and recently Shump, those are the only people on the team who can create offense. It's either you lose to Orlando by two or you lose by 15. Either way, people will complain.


Also, Amare has been playing well, so step off

For every drive JR creates, there's another player's drive where catches the ball and holds it while the offense resets. For every three he makes in the 2nd quarter, he bricks 2 in the last 5 minutes of the game. He is a net negative offensive player.

Who isn't on this team? Outside of Shump and Melo?

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Melo, Shump, THJ, and Stat are all better offensive players than JR. When Calderon and Bargs return that's two more. That should be enough.

[Bklyn&company]

If we are trying to win(a Big If), Fisher needs to stick to a rotation(until Calderon comes back): Make it happen Fish

Melo/JR
Amare/Melo/Acy
Dally/Cole/JaSmith
Shump/Tim
Larkin/Prigs

Prigs
Cole
JR
Tim
Acy
JaSmith

[Rasho Brezec]

Let's just trade cokehead and Calderon for Eric Gordon.

[Bill Pidto]

Once again, I see Melo holding the ball and taking too many shots while his teammates become disinterested.

This is not the way the Knicks played the first 3 games. What happened?

You need to put your glasses back on Pidto.

Why? Am I wrong?

Or are you just more attracted to the great Bill Pidto with his glasses on?

[GONYK]

Melo, Shump, THJ, and Stat are all better offensive players than JR. When Calderon and Bargs return that's two more. That should be enough.

They are both net negative players though (aside from Shump and Melo). Pretty much everyone off the bench is.

JR is not falling entirely out of the rotation. Especially with Shump's fouls and THJ being unable to guard even Luke Ridnour.

[MaseInYourFace]

I took some positives away even though it was another loss. Defense had its low points but overall felt it was second decent defensive effort. Carmelo played well which is a good sign. JR had a solid game and Shumpert played well again. The Knicks frankly had enough to win this game but they lost.

[GONYK]

I took some positives away even though it was another loss. Defense had its low points but overall felt it was second decent defensive effort. Carmelo played well which is a good sign. JR had a solid game and Shumpert played well again. The Knicks frankly had enough to win this game but they lost.

The defense is improving. There are stretches of very good D, but then that usually means that we aren't scoring on the other end.

[Capn'O]

Let's just trade cokehead and Calderon for Eric Gordon.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Melo, Shump, THJ, and Stat are all better offensive players than JR. When Calderon and Bargs return that's two more. That should be enough.

They are both net negative players though (aside from Shump and Melo). Pretty much everyone off the bench is.

JR is not falling entirely out of the rotation. Especially with Shump's fouls and THJ being unable to guard even Luke Ridnour.

The problem is he's not just taking minutes that open up due to foul trouble. He's a regular fixture in the rotation. And THJ should get rope regardless of his struggles. Plenty of teams that want to win will nonetheless give time to younger players over vets that are currently more effective.

[GONYK]

Melo, Shump, THJ, and Stat are all better offensive players than JR. When Calderon and Bargs return that's two more. That should be enough.

They are both net negative players though (aside from Shump and Melo). Pretty much everyone off the bench is.

JR is not falling entirely out of the rotation. Especially with Shump's fouls and THJ being unable to guard even Luke Ridnour.

The problem is he's not just taking minutes that open up due to foul trouble. He's a regular fixture in the rotation. And THJ should get rope regardless of his struggles. Plenty of teams that want to win will nonetheless give time to younger players over vets that are currently more effective.

Like who? By and large, the better players play in this league.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Just one example off the top of my head, Enes Kanter getting minutes over Trevor Booker.

[GONYK]

Just one example off the top of my head, Enes Kanter getting minutes over Trevor Booker.

One example doesn't really invalidate the rule.

THJ is also affected by the fact that he and Amare can't play together.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

There are plenty of examples. If a 1st or 2nd year player on any semi-deep team that isn't Philly is getting minutes, it's probably because the team understands that the imperative to win now needs to be balanced against the imperative to develop youth. Trying to establish JR as a centerpiece of the team is especially shortsighted because keeping him here ties up our cap sheet and reinforces bad old habits, while serving no chemistry or continuity-related purpose given that his game is going to fall off a cliff in the next few years due to his poor conditioning.

[GONYK]

There are plenty of examples. If a 1st or 2nd year player on any semi-deep team that isn't Philly is getting minutes, it's probably because the team understands that the imperative to win now needs to be balanced against the imperative to develop youth. Trying to establish JR as a centerpiece of the team is especially shortsighted because keeping him here ties up our cap sheet and reinforces bad old habits, while serving no chemistry or continuity-related purpose given that his game is going to fall off a cliff in the next few years due to his poor conditioning.

I don't believe there are plenty of examples of less talented players consistently playing ahead of more talented players.

We aren't establishing JR as a centerpiece and THJ has started more games than JR this year.

The fact of the matter is, THJ is too costly and brings too little to the table at this point. It's not even like he's a better fit. He makes as many poor decisions as JR does.

Committing to him at this stage in the season is jumping the gun.