Hawks (3-3) V.S. Jazz (3-5)

[theatlfan]

Kanter

Kanter proved to me that he is a guy the Hawks should a pitch at in FA this off-season. He looked like a rich mans Pero tonight. He definitely fits the need as a stretch big for us knocking down two or three 3's tonight. He's more agressive than Pero on the boards as well.

Protecting the paint

Hawks have to do a better job protecting the paint. The Jazz got way to many points tonight in the paint. The 2nd quarter was just demoralizing. It's one thing when your opponent has the hot hand but when your opponent just runs it down your throat in the paint over and over it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Good analysis overall, but I have to say that these two items have me scratching my head a bit. Now, I should put the disclaimer on here that I didn't get a chance to see the 1Q+ but I missed these. As far as Kanter, I was actually excited to see him but all I can really remember him doing was hit a 3 from the top of the key - that's it. Just felt like he was a non-factor all game. As far as the Pero comp, note this: advanced stats consistently have Pero as a positive defender while Kanter is terrible on that side of the court - so negative that it actually overwhelms an above average offensive game. Considering the struggles of Horford and even Pero, I can't think that I'd think that this was a game that I'd judge Kanter's D on. If I took anything away from this game in regards to Kanter, it's that I'm still not sure that he would cure anything that ails us.

The only one I really remember them hitting us hard in the paint was Favors (almost wrote Howard there...) but I'd assume that he does that to a lot of people. Even then, there were a few shots that had me chuckling in the "you just had a prayer answered" kind of way. After that, their O was mostly mid-to-long range 2's by Burks (who made them) and Heyward (who didn't). I guess Burke did some things in there, but he was weird - he did some things and put up some stats, but I also never really felt threatened by him either. Just knew that he wouldn't beat us. (Aside: I remember a few articles about UTH fans wishing they would have stood pat and drafted Schröder instead of trading up for Burke - after last night's game, I'd have to agree.)

Jenkins, they said would get some minutes, apparently not. It is weird how he just is rotting on the bench in a contract year unless there is something we dont know. Why match his offer if you dont need him?

?? We never matched any offer on Jenkins. Jenkins is a rookie scale contract and we've already declined the 2nd TO and he'll be a UFA at the end of this season. The 1st TO, the one for this season, was picked up at the beginning of last season (before it was apparent that the injury was/is as severe as we came to know).

[PandaKidd]

Sorry, I dont know what I was thinking, we declined his option which is why hes a FA at the end of the year. Which is probably why you dont see him playing, we dont really have anything to lose

[Jamaaliver]

Since when does 1-2 years of age turn a player from a high potential young player to a fringe vet??

Bazemore is 25
Mack is 24
Jenkins is 23

Mack has the most NBA playing experience out of the 3 and he has barely had any.

Thabo is older and the best player out of the 4. He has struggled shooting the ball, but his defense is incredible and it puts him ahead of the other 3.

Muscala received minutes over Payne. Is Muscala a fringe NBA vet? As much as people like to hate on Antic, we lose last night if he doesn't play. He is our best low post defender.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. But I will gladly elaborate on my previous statement(s).

Muscala's rookie season was largely forfeited when we brought him over mid season. He languished last season on the bench, wasting away behind Brand and Pero. Even as they struggled. Even as the season spiraled out of control. This year, Muscala has languished on the bench yet again as Pero has taken the lion's share of the PT. This, despite the fact Muscala dominated at college, overseas, looked damn good in Summer League and has more future value than Pero (who might be out of the NBA next summer.)

Dennis struggled last year, yet when he began to show signs of life and when the team was in the midst of historically long losing streak, Dennis still played limited minutes while Mack drew most PT. Even this season, Dennis got little to no burn to begin with. If not for an extraordinary showing against SAS, and terrible play by Mack...would Dennis still be rotting on the bench?

Jenkins looked good in pre-season and training camp (by all accounts), yet hasn't played a single minute. He wasn't even active until yesterday. Even as Bazemore racked up DNP-CDs, Bud preferred to keep Jenkins in street clothes.

I view Mack and Pero as fringe NBAers. Like Ivan. Like Ayon. (NOTE: Mack had no guarantee contract offers last season and had to beat out vet PG Royal Ivey just to make our roster in 2013.)

I don't think it benefits a team lacking in talent to play these kinds of players over guys who might actually be important pieces or valuable assets moving forward.

Kent Bazemore...is nothing to me. I think his value was clearly inflated by D'Antoni's system and playing on a losing team. There is a reason he is on his 3rd team in 3 years. GREAT Kid. Below average player. No way he should be keeping us from at least seeing JJ2 active most nights.

If we were a top team in contention, I'd agree that you play vets. Or whomever helps you win today. But Bud's record is still under .500 overall. We haven't looked like contenders at any point. I think we'd benefit more today from seeing what the kids can do early, and then adjusting the roster accordingly.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Since when does 1-2 years of age turn a player from a high potential young player to a fringe vet??

Bazemore is 25
Mack is 24
Jenkins is 23

Mack has the most NBA playing experience out of the 3 and he has barely had any.

Thabo is older and the best player out of the 4. He has struggled shooting the ball, but his defense is incredible and it puts him ahead of the other 3.

Muscala received minutes over Payne. Is Muscala a fringe NBA vet? As much as people like to hate on Antic, we lose last night if he doesn't play. He is our best low post defender.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. But I will gladly elaborate on my previous statement(s).

Muscala's rookie season was largely forfeited when we brought him over mid season. He languished last season on the bench, wasting away behind Brand and Pero. Even as they struggled. Even as the season spiraled out of control. This year, Muscala has languished on the bench yet again as Pero has taken the lion's share of the PT. This, despite the fact Muscala dominated at college, overseas, looked damn good in Summer League and has more future value than Pero (who might be out of the NBA next summer.)

Dennis struggled last year, yet when he began to show signs of life and when the team was in the midst of historically long losing streak, Dennis still played limited minutes while Mack drew most PT. Even this season, Dennis got little to no burn to begin with. If not for an extraordinary showing against SAS, and terrible play by Mack...would Dennis still be rotting on the bench?

Jenkins looked good in pre-season and training camp (by all accounts), yet hasn't played a single minute. He wasn't even active until yesterday. Even as Bazemore racked up DNP-CDs, Bud preferred to keep Jenkins in street clothes.

I view Mack and Pero as fringe NBAers. Like Ivan. Like Ayon. (NOTE: Mack had no guarantee contract offers last season and had to beat out vet PG Royal Ivey just to make our roster in 2013.)

I don't think it benefits a team lacking in talent to play these kinds of players over guys who might actually be important pieces or valuable assets moving forward.

Kent Bazemore...is nothing to me. I think his value was clearly inflated by D'Antoni's system and playing on a losing team. There is a reason he is on his 3rd team in 3 years. GREAT Kid. Below average player. No way he should be keeping us from at least seeing JJ2 active most nights.

If we were a top team in contention, I'd agree that you play vets. Or whomever helps you win today. But Bud's record is still under .500 overall. We haven't looked like contenders at any point. I think we'd benefit more today from seeing what the kids can do early, and then adjusting the roster accordingly.

Well the obvious answer seems to be that you put far too much weight on preseason and summer league performance. I know you think Jenkins is primed to develop in to a starter on this team, but that seems highly unlikely whether he gets time to prove it or not. You seem to think that Jenkins should be guaranteed playing time since you think highly of him. Bud is around these guys every day. Jenkins obviously isn't pulling his weight if he can't get on the floor. Bazemore's offense has been atrocious thus far; however, before last night's game, our opponents have shot 33% from the floor when Bazemore is on the court. Bazemore has far more potential than Jenkins based on his athleticism, length and defensive ability. Get his shot fixed and you have a damn good player.


This team is trying to win and they have the potential to be very good by playoff time if Horford can get it together.

[Jamaaliver]

You seem to think that Jenkins should be guaranteed playing time since you think highly of him

It's not anything as silly as letting him play because I like him.

It's about assets. Wasting assets is inexcusable for a franchise that historically has had vey few of great worth.

Playing JJ2 could potentially increase his value for trade. When you consider that Mack and Bazemore have been extremely poor offensively, leaving a young guard whose primary talent is offense to rot, knowing that he walks away in a few months for nothing...seems wasteful.

When you draft a guy, you commit yourself to getting as much value as possible out of that selection.

If you don't like him...trade him. But letting him sit for no reason is just poor asset management.

[ATLHawksfan21]

You seem to think that Jenkins should be guaranteed playing time since you think highly of him

It's not anything as silly as letting him play because I like him.

It's about assets. Wasting assets is inexcusable for a franchise that historically has had vey few of great worth.

Playing JJ2 could potentially increase his value for trade. When you consider that Mack and Bazemore have been extremely poor offensively, leaving a young guard whose primary talent is offense to rot, knowing that he walks away in a few months for nothing...seems wasteful.

When you draft a guy, you commit yourself to getting as much value as possible out of that selection.

If you don't like him...trade him. But letting him sit for no reason is just poor asset management.

Got it. So you are suggesting that we force play JJ2 to the possible detriment of this team in an effort to possibly drum up enough support to get a late 2nd rounder for him?

Who on earth is going to trade for jenkins when he is on the last year of his deal and has shown nothing thus far in his career.

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[Jamaaliver]

Got it. So you are suggesting that we force play JJ2 to the possible detriment of this team in an effort to possibly drum up enough support to get a late 2nd rounder for him?

Who on earth is going to trade for jenkins when he is on the last year of his deal and has shown nothing thus far in his career.

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<Sigh>

No. I'm saying give him the opportunity to play for a brief time, especially when we're lacking productive wing players on our squad. (As we were Wednesday.) Let's not forget, a week ago Dennis couldn't get off the bench either. Now, he's the toast of the town. Because e took advantage of the OPPORTUNITY.

And who would trade for JJ2, potentially another team with a player in a similar situation who just needs a fresh start. Arnett Moultrie, Perry Jones Jr, Austin Rivers, Festus Ezeli, or even just a future 2nd round pick.

I don't see Pop allowing consecutive 1st rounders to go to waste.

[Jamaaliver]

Who on earth is going to trade for jenkins when he is on the last year of his deal and has shown nothing thus far in his career?

I don't know if JJ2 has it in him to be a starter in this league, but the kid can score the ball. If he can string together 7-10 games of him avg 10+ points per game, we absolutely could find a trade partner to get some value from him.

I know his 12 point performance last night was largely against CLEVELAND's backups, but the young man has a talent for putting the ball in the hoop.

Even if he is just a throw in for a larger trade, I hope to goodness Bud is savvy enough not to let him simply rot after displaying an ability to at least contribute in a real NBA game when healthy.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Who on earth is going to trade for jenkins when he is on the last year of his deal and has shown nothing thus far in his career?

I don't know if JJ2 has it in him to be a starter in this league, but the kid can score the ball. If he can string together 7-10 games of him avg 10+ points per game, we absolutely could find a trade partner to get some value from him.

I know his 12 point performance last night was largely against CLEVELAND's backups, but the young man has a talent for putting the ball in the hoop.

Even if he is just a throw in for a larger trade, I hope to goodness Bud is savvy enough not to let him simply rot after displaying an ability to at least contribute in a real NBA game when healthy.

I gave up on the game after the first quarter since the writing was on the wall and there was some good football on. I did notice the boxscore and it looked like Jenkins had a solid performance. I will always root for Jenkins and I would love for him to impress if he gets the chance. I was just trying to argue that there must be some reasoning behind his lack of playing time and I will always doubt the notion that we will get something worthwhile in a trade,