Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

[Ron Swanson]

So apparently Celtics are telling people Rondo's off the table? Interesting.

- Ersan, Dudley, Middleton, Knight, Marshall, and Henson are all on the table for me and if I'm Hammond I'm shopping them hard.

- Terrence Ross, Ray McAllum, Glen Rice Jr., Kosta Koufos, and Kyle O'Quinn are guys that I think are reasonable trade targets.

- Hell no to Biyombo. He's undersized and more importantly, he's terrible.

[Licensed to Il]

Celtics fan here. What is the deal with John Henson why is he getting low minutes? Do you think he will traded because the Bucks have a lot of bigs?. Also I think Milwaukee would be a perfect destination for Rondo but I doubt he goes there.

We are not sure what the plan is for Henson. The guy who drafted him (Hammond) is still around. But as you pointed out, Henson is not getting much playing time so far this year. The organization seems to be showcasing Pachulia and Illyasova, which has kept Henson's minutes down.

Two cent scouting report: Henson has super long arms, and while he is not a great on the ball defender, his length allows him contest a lot of drives and gunk things up inside. He still struggles to understand defensive rotations, but if this clicks he has quick enough feet to be a plus rim defender. He should be further along in this area. He used to be too skinny to hold position, but is starting to fill out a little. He has always been an exceptional rebounder. His passing is poor, he doesn't shoot well out from the hoop, and his only post move is a baby hook. But he is slithery inside, and a decent finisher (finesse not power).

If he was a little more devoted to the weight room, had a serviceable jumper, and a little quicker to pick things up on defense, he could probably be a starting caliber role player. As of right now, his lack of shooting range and lack of bulk kind of make him a swiss army knife without the knife blade or can opener.

Most of us think that he is almost certain to be dealt, as Giannis is going to be playing power forward here for the foreseeable future.

[raferfenix]

So apparently Celtics are telling people Rondo's off the table? Interesting.

That's what they're telling people, but may not be the reality. More from Beck:

Superstars don't hit the market often, and a blockbuster trade can't be manufactured out of thin air. So while Rondo's free agency creates an urgency for the Celtics front office, there also isn't much Ainge can do until another All-Star in another city demands a trade.

Ainge has indicated a desire to re-sign Rondo. Rondo has indicated, on multiple occasions, his desire to stay. It doesn't necessarily mean it will happen. Again, the Pierce situation in 2007 is instructive.

"A player like Paul, and a player like Rondo, I think they're willing to do what's best for the franchise for a certain period of time," Ainge said. "But I think there is a window in that sort of process as well. So we're in a situation right now where Rondo, we're trying to decide, is he worth a contract that he wants this summer? And he's trying to decide, is this where I want to stay?

"Now, we know that this is where he wants to stay, assuming that we are a competitive team. We believe that. It's a place he would like to stay. But what sort of team we can put together may be a factor in that in the offseason."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2272 ... -decisions

[CelticsPride18]

Celtics fan here. What is the deal with John Henson why is he getting low minutes? Do you think he will traded because the Bucks have a lot of bigs?. Also I think Milwaukee would be a perfect destination for Rondo but I doubt he goes there.

We are not sure what the plan is for Henson. The guy who drafted him (Hammond) is still around. But as you pointed out, Henson is not getting much playing time so far this year. The organization seems to be showcasing Pachulia and Illyasova, which has kept Henson's minutes down.

Two cent scouting report: Henson has super long arms, and while he is not a great on the ball defender, his length allows him contest a lot of drives and gunk things up inside. He still struggles to understand defensive rotations, but if this clicks he has quick enough feet to be a plus rim defender. He should be further along in this area. He used to be too skinny to hold position, but is starting to fill out a little. He has always been an exceptional rebounder. His passing is poor, he doesn't shoot well out from the hoop, and his only post move is a baby hook. But he is slithery inside, and a decent finisher (finesse not power).

If he was a little more devoted to the weight room, had a serviceable jumper, and a little quicker to pick things up on defense, he could probably be a starting caliber role player. As of right now, his lack of shooting range and lack of bulk kind of make him a swiss army knife without the knife blade or can opener.

Most of us think that he is almost certain to be dealt, as Giannis is going to be playing power forward here for the foreseeable future.

Thanks. I'm really like him as a possible rim protector for the C's but I don't see what the bucks want from the Celtics our best assets are Sullinger , Olynyk and Rondo. Rondo will not accept a trade to the Bucks and you don't need more bigs. We also have Bradley but I doubt you want to pay 8M for him with Mayo already on the roster.

[TroyD92]

Henson has been disappointing lately after starting off the Preseason strong. I would off him up to New York for Hardaway Jr.

New York would laugh.

I don't think so. Henson would be perfect for us. A young defensive center that can pass and hit the J on a rookie scale?
I love Timmy, but Henson would be our best starting Center and fit perfectly next to Melo in the Triangle.
A little green, yes---but we're not getting Marc Gasol.
I really think Phil would bite.

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. You'll have a tough time convincing me NY would though.

[Ron Swanson]

So apparently Celtics are telling people Rondo's off the table? Interesting.

That's what they're telling people, but may not be the reality. More from Beck:

Superstars don't hit the market often, and a blockbuster trade can't be manufactured out of thin air. So while Rondo's free agency creates an urgency for the Celtics front office, there also isn't much Ainge can do until another All-Star in another city demands a trade.

Ainge has indicated a desire to re-sign Rondo. Rondo has indicated, on multiple occasions, his desire to stay. It doesn't necessarily mean it will happen. Again, the Pierce situation in 2007 is instructive.

"A player like Paul, and a player like Rondo, I think they're willing to do what's best for the franchise for a certain period of time," Ainge said. "But I think there is a window in that sort of process as well. So we're in a situation right now where Rondo, we're trying to decide, is he worth a contract that he wants this summer? And he's trying to decide, is this where I want to stay?

"Now, we know that this is where he wants to stay, assuming that we are a competitive team. We believe that. It's a place he would like to stay. But what sort of team we can put together may be a factor in that in the offseason."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2272 ... -decisions

That creates an interesting dilemma if they do decide to re-sign Rondo and try to bring in another star talent. Mainly, where does Marcus Smart fit in long term? They just signed Avery Bradley to an expensive contract and all three of those guys' skills are pretty redundant (good defensive, average offensive players).

If they can lure say, Marc Gasol in FA, does that make Smart expendable? I'd be very interested in offering up a package to get Smart in a Bucks uniform....

[Licensed to Il]

Celtics fan here. What is the deal with John Henson why is he getting low minutes? Do you think he will traded because the Bucks have a lot of bigs?. Also I think Milwaukee would be a perfect destination for Rondo but I doubt he goes there.

We are not sure what the plan is for Henson. The guy who drafted him (Hammond) is still around. But as you pointed out, Henson is not getting much playing time so far this year. The organization seems to be showcasing Pachulia and Illyasova, which has kept Henson's minutes down.

Two cent scouting report: Henson has super long arms, and while he is not a great on the ball defender, his length allows him contest a lot of drives and gunk things up inside. He still struggles to understand defensive rotations, but if this clicks he has quick enough feet to be a plus rim defender. He should be further along in this area. He used to be too skinny to hold position, but is starting to fill out a little. He has always been an exceptional rebounder. His passing is poor, he doesn't shoot well out from the hoop, and his only post move is a baby hook. But he is slithery inside, and a decent finisher (finesse not power).

If he was a little more devoted to the weight room, had a serviceable jumper, and a little quicker to pick things up on defense, he could probably be a starting caliber role player. As of right now, his lack of shooting range and lack of bulk kind of make him a swiss army knife without the knife blade or can opener.

Most of us think that he is almost certain to be dealt, as Giannis is going to be playing power forward here for the foreseeable future.

Thanks. I'm really like him as a possible rim protector for the C's but I don't see what the bucks want from the Celtics our best assets are Sullinger , Olynyk and Rondo. Rondo will not accept a trade to the Bucks and you don't need more bigs. We also have Bradley but I doubt you want to pay 8M for him with Mayo already on the roster.

What is your scouting report on Olynk? What does he already do sufficiently, and what kind of player do you see him developing in to?

Also, would you guys trade the rookie from Kentucky?

[Ruben Quevedo]

I'm sure he's been mentioned already, but Muay Ty Lawson would look rather tasty in a Bucks uniform.

[CelticsPride18]

We are not sure what the plan is for Henson. The guy who drafted him (Hammond) is still around. But as you pointed out, Henson is not getting much playing time so far this year. The organization seems to be showcasing Pachulia and Illyasova, which has kept Henson's minutes down.

Two cent scouting report: Henson has super long arms, and while he is not a great on the ball defender, his length allows him contest a lot of drives and gunk things up inside. He still struggles to understand defensive rotations, but if this clicks he has quick enough feet to be a plus rim defender. He should be further along in this area. He used to be too skinny to hold position, but is starting to fill out a little. He has always been an exceptional rebounder. His passing is poor, he doesn't shoot well out from the hoop, and his only post move is a baby hook. But he is slithery inside, and a decent finisher (finesse not power).

If he was a little more devoted to the weight room, had a serviceable jumper, and a little quicker to pick things up on defense, he could probably be a starting caliber role player. As of right now, his lack of shooting range and lack of bulk kind of make him a swiss army knife without the knife blade or can opener.

Most of us think that he is almost certain to be dealt, as Giannis is going to be playing power forward here for the foreseeable future.

Thanks. I'm really like him as a possible rim protector for the C's but I don't see what the bucks want from the Celtics our best assets are Sullinger , Olynyk and Rondo. Rondo will not accept a trade to the Bucks and you don't need more bigs. We also have Bradley but I doubt you want to pay 8M for him with Mayo already on the roster.

What is your scouting report on Olynk? What does he already do sufficiently, and what kind of player do you see him developing in to?

Also, would you guys trade the rookie from Kentucky?

Olynyk is a good offensive player he can shoot, drive , finish with either hand, good passer, decent rebounder and high basketball IQ but his defense is really bad. Olynyk is having an excellent offensive season 13/6 on 58/47/77 shooting percentages. Yeah I think Young would be available on the right deal.

[raferfenix]

Rondo will not accept a trade to the Bucks

Are we sure this is the case?

There are only so many teams who can sign him as a free agent, and Rondo would have to like their situations so much better that he'd be willing to give up to as much as $27 million in guaranteed salary.

Per Beck, the 5 year max for Rondo is estimated at $106 million if he stays with the team who has his rights, whereas the max is 4 years and about $79 million if he signs elsewhere.

Think the Mavs and Rockets in particular could have enticing pitches to Rondo. However, if it looks like he'd be leading a superstar trio with Giannis and Parker for many years to come, then giving up that $27 million becomes a different story.

[raferfenix]

That creates an interesting dilemma if they do decide to re-sign Rondo and try to bring in another star talent. Mainly, where does Marcus Smart fit in long term? They just signed Avery Bradley to an expensive contract and all three of those guys' skills are pretty redundant (good defensive, average offensive players).

If they can lure say, Marc Gasol in FA, does that make Smart expendable? I'd be very interested in offering up a package to get Smart in a Bucks uniform....

Marcus Smart could easily find himself as trade bait for the Celtics to pick up pieces to build around Rondo.

How are his PG skills?

Not sure if we'd be willing or able to give up enough to entice Ainge to trade Smart -- especially if he wants to sit on him until a star becomes available.

Then again, I could see Boston highly valuing Larry Sanders in particular if they could pair him with Rondo to set up a lethal defense long term.

[ampd]

He has always been an exceptional rebounder.

I actually think this is the reason he isn't playing.

His rebounding by year -

2012 - 14 ORB 24.4 DRB 19.3 TRB
2013 - 10 ORB 20.8 DRB 15 TRB
2014 - 14 ORB 14.2 DRB 14 TRB

For comparison sake

Larry - 15ORB 23.9 DRB 19.6 TRB
Zaza - 11O 17.5 DRB 14.4 TRB
Knight - 2.3O 18.2 DRB / 10.3 TRB
Parker - 7/14/11
Giannis - 5/20/13

Henson was getting schooled on the defensive glass by Jason Smith last night. We watched guys like Lance Stephenson grab boards over him. For whatever reason his effort level and intensity just isn't there a lot of the time.

[CelticsPride18]

Rondo will not accept a trade to the Bucks

Are we sure this is the case?

There are only so many teams who can sign him as a free agent, and Rondo would have to like their situations so much better that he'd be willing to give up to as much as $27 million in guaranteed salary.

Per Beck, the 5 year max for Rondo is estimated at $106 million if he stays with the team who has his rights, whereas the max is 4 years and about $79 million if he signs elsewhere.

Think the Mavs and Rockets in particular could have enticing pitches to Rondo. However, if it looks like he'd be leading a superstar trio with Giannis and Parker for many years to come, then giving up that $27 million becomes a different story.

Yeah the Bucks young core is pretty enticing a lot of potential in this team.

[Ron Swanson]

That creates an interesting dilemma if they do decide to re-sign Rondo and try to bring in another star talent. Mainly, where does Marcus Smart fit in long term? They just signed Avery Bradley to an expensive contract and all three of those guys' skills are pretty redundant (good defensive, average offensive players).

If they can lure say, Marc Gasol in FA, does that make Smart expendable? I'd be very interested in offering up a package to get Smart in a Bucks uniform....

Marcus Smart could easily find himself as trade bait for the Celtics to pick up pieces to build around Rondo.

How are his PG skills?

Not sure if we'd be willing or able to give up enough to entice Ainge to trade Smart -- especially if he wants to sit on him until a star becomes available.

Then again, I could see Boston highly valuing Larry Sanders in particular if they could pair him with Rondo to set up a lethal defense long term.

I'm not willing to give up Larry, but I think we have some intriguing pieces (both young prospects and veterans) that might entice Ainge to pull the trigger. They need perimeter shooting, so Middleton, Knight, Mayo, Dudley and Ersan could be in the fold. If they can convince themselves they can sign a FA to the max in the offseason, I'd even offer to take on Gerald Wallace's contract if Smart were attached.

I think a Knight + Henson + 15' 2nd for Smart + Wallace is a good starting point.

[ampd]

If we are making a big time win now trade it needs to be a perfect fit, because if we add a legit star player we're making the playoffs for sure.

For now if I'm Hammond I look to package some combination of Dudley, Ersan, Wolters, Marshall, Henson and look to package them with a 2nd for either bench big that can defend and rebound, or a SG prospect that can shoot the 3, and use the extra roster spot to pick up Eric or some other big who fits that role.

Otherwise I'll just stand pat for at least another month and see where this goes unless I can work out a trade that is a clear win for us.

[Baddy Chuck]

- Hell no to Biyombo. He's undersized and more importantly, he's terrible.

He's a very good defender and he's basically the same size as Sanders except he's stronger as well.

[ampd]

- Hell no to Biyombo. He's undersized and more importantly, he's terrible.

He's a very good defender and he's basically the same size as Sanders except he's stronger as well.

Yeah he has a standing reach that is half an inch shorter than Henson's and about an inch shorter than Larry's, which is to say he's effectively just as long.

He's not nearly the help defender Larry is, but he is a solid post defender and a really good defensive rebounder, and he can do it at PF and C. I also think he'd potentially benefit from the example of guys like Zaza and Larry.

[Ron Swanson]

- Hell no to Biyombo. He's undersized and more importantly, he's terrible.

He's a very good defender and he's basically the same size as Sanders except he's stronger as well.

If he were a very good defender I doubt that Cody Zeller would be getting nearly twice as many minutes as him. His efficiency has only improved because they cut his minutes down to 12-13 a game starting last year. Probably because his per 36 numbers were pretty awful (other than blocks) when he was getting starter's PT.

His length is great, but he gets pushed around by bigger C's because of his size (228 lb). He's useless on offense outside of put-back dunks, and you can't play him at the end of games because he's a liability at the line (career 51%).

Sure, I'd take a flier on him if they were essentially giving him away, but I wouldn't give up anything of value to acquire him when he'll be a RFA next season anyways. I think it's telling that Charlotte had no interest whatsoever in offering him an extension.

[Baddy Chuck]

If he were a very good defender I doubt that Cody Zeller would be getting nearly twice as many minutes as him. His efficiency has only improved because they cut his minutes down to 12-13 a game starting last year. Probably because his per 36 numbers were pretty awful (other than blocks) when he was getting starter's PT.

His length is great, but he gets pushed around by bigger C's because of his size (228 lb). He's useless on offense outside of put-back dunks, and you can't play him at the end of games because he's a liability at the line (career 51%).

Sure, I'd take a flier on him if they were essentially giving him away, but I wouldn't give up anything of value to acquire him when he'll be a RFA next season anyways. I think it's telling that Charlotte had no interest whatsoever in offering him an extension.

Meh, Sanders was sitting behind Drew Gooden and Samuel Dalembert for a chunk of his career, what NBA teams do really doesn't surprise me much. In his only year with "starters" minutes he had a defensive xRAPM of 2.6, he's usually a pretty phenomenal defender at the rim and he's only 22 years old. I'm not saying sell the farm for the guy, but he isn't a "terrible" player. He has a role in the NBA and he does it pretty well at a very young age. Also, I'm not even sure he was 228 when he played in the Nike Hoops Summit 3 or 4 years ago, he's clearly bigger then that.

[ampd]

His length is great, but he gets pushed around by bigger C's because of his size (228 lb).

Based on this I'm not sure you've watched him play.

He's inconsistent, and his effort level isn't always 100% (similar to Henson I guess) but being soft and getting pushed around is the least of his problems.

He's like a stronger more explosive version of raw Larry Sanders in that he has a lot of plays that make you go 'wow' but a fair number of those are bad ones. The Hornets are trying to win now, and playing a project player like him isn't a great fit with that.

He's one of those guys who might benefit a lot from a change of scenery and a fresh start with less expectations. He's also a decent poster child for how playing on a truly horrific team with bad coaching and no good players can foster bad habits.