Dwight under investigation for hitting son with belt buckle

[kblo247]

If he gets half the suspension Tyler got, the rockets are ****

[Dr Aki]

we have a problem in this discussion as to where the line is drawn

we seem to have an all or nothing type approach which one side seems to label pro-corporal punishment advocates as abusers, using instruments such as belts to cause physical and lasting mental harm

what noone's seemed to even bother to address is whether there is such thing as appropriate corporal punishment that does not overstep the line into physical harm, like what i suggested - a light smack on the hand or the bum with an accompanying explanation - for especially egregious behaviour

yeah, i got smacked over the hand or bum when i did some unacceptable things, things like throwing stuff, breaking stuff (vandalism), hitting my sister (fighting) etc... there are always instances where a simply talking-to and revoking of privileges for a set amount of time isn't going to cut it.

now, how in any way was that abuse? for any further rational discussion where everyone isn't simply talking past each other, i think we have to start by at least defining what is right and wrong (and i'm sure when both sides lay out their definitions and terms, we'll find that the line in the sand is pretty much the same barring a few situations), or whether a certain punishment is appropriate.

have at it

[Kalidogg24]

Don't care what happens to Dwight just more concerned about his Kids.

As far as using the belt , I could care less if it's straight up leather smacking ass.
I got my fair share of whoopin's with the belt as a child and I turnt out fine.

Too many damn people are too soft on disciplining their kids nowadays with all this Child Services BS. Thats why IMO you got all these nutso kids shooting up Elementary Schools like Newtown or that other Sick FCK who was ramming people with his car from UCSB.

Now if he's smacking the kid with the buckle that's a different story. Dumb SHIET like Adrian Peterson.

You "turnt" out fine? I'm not so sure. How do you know that all those killers weren't abused by their parents too? A Large majority of violent criminals were abused as children, after all, that's where they learned the behavior in the first place. Yes whipping your kid with a leather belt like a slave or animal is violent abuse, even if your parent did it to you.

It's funny, you think its ok to whip your kid with a belt, but a belt buckle, well that's just over the line!

Well for the record it is documented that the Newtown killer was not abused as a child and had a good upbringing. An for the UCSB killer it was also documented that he had a good lifestyle as well. Both of his parents were rich and he had everything he wanted except his parents, they were busy business people and they barely spent time with him.

Leather smacking ass hurts but it doesn't break any bones. So you're telling me getting struck with a metal belt buckle is the same thing??? LoL! Your parents must of had you on leash when they went grocery shopping huh? An you probably had plenty of timeouts in the corner.

To say getting smacked on the ass a couple times is like getting treated like an animal or a slave is ludicrous. I had a sore ass but it wasn't to the point where I couldn't sit or go outside and play basketball. Maybe I just have a higher threshold for pain than you or maybe you just need to Grow a sack.

[Penberthy]

we have a problem in this discussion as to where the line is drawn

we seem to have an all or nothing type approach which one side seems to label pro-corporal punishment advocates as abusers, using instruments such as belts to cause physical and lasting mental harm

what noone's seemed to even bother to address is whether there is such thing as appropriate corporal punishment that does not overstep the line into physical harm, like what i suggested - a light smack on the hand or the bum with an accompanying explanation - for especially egregious behaviour

yeah, i got smacked over the hand or bum when i did some unacceptable things, things like throwing stuff, breaking stuff (vandalism), hitting my sister (fighting) etc... there are always instances where a simply talking-to and revoking of privileges for a set amount of time isn't going to cut it.

now, how in any way was that abuse? for any further rational discussion where everyone isn't simply talking past each other, i think we have to start by at least defining what is right and wrong (and i'm sure when both sides lay out their definitions and terms, we'll find that the line in the sand is pretty much the same barring a few situations), or whether a certain punishment is appropriate.

have at it

If another adult wrongs you at the supermarket, and you "spank" them, or "smacked on the hand or bum", or however else people use language to rationalize assaulting their own children, you have committed a felony and will do some hard time in prison. You will also likely get sued civilly and lose a lot of money.

But, if your kid does the exact same thing, you think it is OK to commit physical violence on that child (yes, hitting them on the butt with your hand to inspire enough fear so that they don't do that action any more)? I just think its a lazy way to parent. And frankly you are telling your child that you don't think they are intelligent enough to listen to a rational point about what they are doing. Instead, your five six or seven year old will be trained the way an animal is trained, by threatening fear via physical violence.

The genesis of the behavior you are trying to punish is the bigger question. Why are they breaking things, hitting their sister, cussing, etc.? They are not acting that way for no reason. Something caused it. It can be as simple as something like an out of balance diet (too much sugar) , not enough sleep, not enough exercise, having to sit unnaturally in a desk at school for 7 hours straight and not talk, any number of things that the parent has control over, thus, not the child's choice or fault.

Classically conditioning your child like some sick Pavlovian dog is not the solution and will lead to unintended problems later on in life.

[Penberthy]

Then again, I do have a Master's Degree in Developmental Psychology, practice BJJ, own my own business, and am in a healthy relationship...

Then you should damned well know better... No right to judge or attack someone personally.
-Kilroy

[crazyeights]

Guys, I'm okay with the discussion going on in here, I've actually found it enlightening and quality.

But let's just try to err on the side of caution and avoid personal insults.

Would be a shame to have to lock this up.

[Jedi32]

First we should really withhold judgment until all the facts are in. Secondly I can't lie if he hit him with a belt buckle that's wrong but Dwight doesn't seem like the abusive type to me. Third I believe a parent has the right to discipline their child the way they see fit as long as it isn't way over the top.

[ChokeFasncists]

I thought Dwight is this funny and goofy guy? It's just a a facade?

[Kilroy]

I think it's best to err on the side of staying the hell out of other people's lives and business... That said, in this case, you have a Medical Professional noticing something he or she felt obligated to bring to the attention of the authorities...

There's also a legal definition of when 'spanking' becomes 'abuse' beyond the obvious physical trauma. I don't know if there are regional differences, but Child Protective Services here and I believe in CA too, define Spanking as hitting a child with the palm of your hand on their butt... That's the only corporal punishment they view as being legal, and you can get in trouble for doing anything else.

So aside from what happened to us, or what we feel is acceptable, what Howard has already admitted to, would be considered as 'abuse' by CPS.
Obviously, there is a grey-area here on some of this as far as when Prosecutors feel what CPS considers abuse, becomes an actionable crime...
But I think by everyone's understanding and by everyone's measuring stick, what Howard did... Beating his 6yo with a belt buckle until it created wounds bad enough for a Dr to report, is "Abuse."

[Kilroy]

I thought Dwight is this funny and goofy guy? It's just a a facade?

I don't think it's a facade, I just think it's a sign of possibly extreme immaturity... And so is what he did to his kid.

[Kalidogg24]

............

First and Foremost I would like to apologize if I hurt your feelings or in any way made you feel "Bullied".
Excuse my brash way of speaking. It's a Lakers/NBA forum so please excuse if my way of communicating in here isn't So "Parent/Teacher conference" friendly.

Secondly, I have a son in Jr. High School, An yes when he was younger when he would get out of line I would smack his hand or his hide but not in any way malicious you describe it out to be.
He's currently been on the High Honor Roll for the past 5 years and he's a rising young star in basketball.
(Plays for two traveling teams and his school's AAU team)

For you to tell me I'm a lazy or an unintelligent person is pure ignorance on your behalf.
I'm raising a high level scholar, athlete of a son.

Just because my ways of parenting don't fit to your particular standards?
I think its safe to say it worked out for me and it worked out definitely for my son.

Please believe we control any issues with words nowadays instead of what you consider getting beat down like a "SLAVE" LOL.
As he is mature enough to reverse any wrong doings on his part.

I can honestly say my son is my best friend.
I mean we just had that birds and bee's talk this past summer LOL. The kid is already going out to the movies with girls LOL. I tell my Ex Girlfriend good thing we had a son. Because if we had a girl (My Condolences to Kilroy) It would be a whole different story.

An IMO the term "beating" in this particular situation is defined differently.
There's getting beat down like it's time to hit up the ICU or there's getting smacked on the butt a couple times old fashioned style where it stings but not hospitalization.

As you are a certified Shrink, I don't blame you for thinking of the most severe outcomes. But that's just not the case for me and for most of the people in this forum who admit to taking a spanking in their childhood.

[ChokeFasncists]

I thought Dwight is this funny and goofy guy? It's just a a facade?

I don't think it's a facade, I just think it's a sign of possibly extreme immaturity... And so is what he did to his kid.

That's certainly possible, but then we've heard stories about what he did to SVG.

[crazyeights]

I thought Dwight is this funny and goofy guy? It's just a a facade?

I don't think it's a facade, I just think it's a sign of possibly extreme immaturity... And so is what he did to his kid.

That's certainly possible, but then we've heard stories about what he did to SVG.

What stories?

[Kilroy]

He spanked him.

[ChokeFasncists]

I don't think it's a facade, I just think it's a sign of possibly extreme immaturity... And so is what he did to his kid.

That's certainly possible, but then we've heard stories about what he did to SVG.

What stories?

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... le-with-bs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y08gvGpGCwA

He spanked him.

That'd be indeed pretty funny and goofy!

[ardee]

Pretty self righteous... No room for attacking someone in that manner.
-Kilroy

[Dr Aki]

let's see what the experts say on the matter:

i went ahead (because i had access, not sure if you guys do too) and read up on two reviews regarding spanking/corporal punishment (CP), a short review decried spanking, looking at both retrospective and longitudinal studies, published in 2010 but and another that only looked at longitudinal studies and tried to delineate spanking vs more intense corporal punishment published in 2013. and if anyone wants, just PM me and i can share the review articles with you

the first review found that hitting children, even spanking led to negative outcomes, both external, internal and cognitive performance, going as far to say that spanking will sometimes lead to more severe forms of corporal punishment and that violence against children is akin to violence against women and is a serious violation of human rights, which i'm sure many would agree with. it cites studies that show there is an increase in aggression, delinquent behaviours in the short term and further on in life. additionally it does cite a paper that shows there is an immediate short term compliance as a result of CP.

the second review was a meta-analysis that looked at only longitudinal studies (45 separate studies), that is studies that followed their target populations over time, instead excluding retrospective studies, as they believe those studies suffered from poorly documented temporal order (that is whether spanking/CP resulted in poor outcomes vs poorly behaved children tended to require punishment) and often didn't separate spanking vs more intense CP, and often didn't control for trivariate data sets

the second review found there was a statistically significant effect of spanking/CP on external, internal and cognitive performance negative outcomes from data sets that recorded only bivariate data, but the effect size was very small, even trivial. indeed, separating out mild spanking from CP found that spanking often didn't have any statistical difference to verbal methods of discipline or more positive reinforcement methods.

indeed, controlling for third variables (variables other than spanking/CP and outcomes) reduces the negative outcome effects to non-significance when compared to verbal discipline and positive reinforcement methods. the review goes on to advise psychologists take a more nuanced approach to stating the effects of spanking/CP to the general public, that is, yes there is a statistically significant effect on negative outcomes as a result of spanking/CP, but the effect size is very small, trivial in bivariate data sets and even non-existent once controlled for trivariate data sets.

as to all papers, they all go on and talk about limitations, seeing as it's not ethically sound to test spanking/CP vs. non-physical methods, you are limited as to how to measure and test these sorts of outcomes.

now, i think we can all agree, dwight is probably abusing his kid and it might've even graduated to assault, but clearly this is not the same as spanking and that mild spanking as a disciplinary tool, (and you may agree or disagree) may still have a place in child-rearing but at the very least is not the broad abuse brush many paint it as

to penberthy: i was breaking stuff, throwing stuff, hitting my sister (1 yo younger) because i was being a little sh*t (my words), she was being a sh*t and together we had a sh*tstorm, my parents, being the busy dual income earners and lack of grandparents around to temper us, were pushed too thin at times and after the third or fourth time the same thing happened, they did what they had to do. so yeah, we both got what was coming, there were plenty of tears but the lessons got learnt, children will inevitably test their boundaries and it ain't always going to raindrops and roses, some kids will be sh*ts, whether they continue to be is what determines if you're a good parent or not