Peaks: Lebron vs Jordan vs Shaq vs Hakeem

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Recent posts by acrossthecourt in top-100 project gave me some doubt about Shaq vs Hakeem peaks... Now maybe I learn to Hakeem in 1year peak...

Well Shaq dominated from the get go, Hakeem took some time.

I think more players feared Shaq more than Hakeem.

Nobody that actually mattered in the big picture feared Shaq.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Jordan peak unmatched? Haha. From 91-93 he had a teammate tally more rebounds, blocks, assists and steals than he did as a Bull in the playoffs during that span.

Imagine if any other guy on this list at their peaks had a teammate outproducing him in so many facets of the game in addition to putting up 25-30 pts a game? It'd be over for the NBA in the same manner.

Faced and beat no team with a a superior talent disparity to his. Underperformed vs a NY team in 93 with not one but TWO all def team members alongside him.

[Gregoire]

Im reading Hakeems book now... Maybe he deserved 2 spot after MJ, I dont know. His 1993 season seems unreal.

[Joao Saraiva]

For me LeBron's best years are 2012 and 2009 (and I really can't decide the one that's really better). Then it comes 2013.

I have:
1. Michael Jordan 1991
2. LeBron James 2012/2009
3. Shaq 2000
4. Hakeem 19994

[Laimbeer]

Mike
LeBron

Shaq
Hakeem

[Frosty]

Jordan peak unmatched? Haha. From 91-93 he had a teammate tally more rebounds, blocks, assists and steals than he did as a Bull in the playoffs during that span.

Imagine if any other guy on this list at their peaks had a teammate outproducing him in so many facets of the game in addition to putting up 25-30 pts a game? It'd be over for the NBA in the same manner.

I really hate this type of misleading argument. I assume you are talking about Pippen.
Totals during the playoffs during the first 3 -peat
Jordan
Points - 1954
Rebounds - 373
Assists - 383
Steals - 123
Blocks - 56

Pippen
Points - 1177 (not even close)
Rebounds - 417 (SF will generally outrebound his SG if he is any good)
Assists - 353 (30 less)
Steals - 124 (1 more)
Blocks - 57 (1 more)

1 guy is scoring at a phenomenal rate while filling up the stat sheet in other areas and the other guy is a great all around player that isn't shouldering the scoring load. Jordan is higher in scoring, assists, the same in steals and blocks and lower in rebounding. This doesn't take away from what he was producing at all. No need to throw out misleading and in some cases outright wrong arguments to prop up your argument.

[Ballerhogger]

2-4 can all be debated, but Mike's early 90's peak to me is still untouchable.

I'd say:

1. 90-93 Jordan
2. 99-02 Shaq
3. 93-95 Dream
4. 12-13 Lebron

i got
90-93 Jordan
93-95 Hakeem
99-02 Shaq
12-13 Lebron

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Jordan peak unmatched? Haha. From 91-93 he had a teammate tally more rebounds, blocks, assists and steals than he did as a Bull in the playoffs during that span.

Imagine if any other guy on this list at their peaks had a teammate outproducing him in so many facets of the game in addition to putting up 25-30 pts a game? It'd be over for the NBA in the same manner.

I really hate this type of misleading argument. I assume you are talking about Pippen.
Totals during the playoffs during the first 3 -peat
Jordan
Points - 1954
Rebounds - 373
Assists - 383
Steals - 123
Blocks - 56

Pippen
Points - 1177 (not even close)
Rebounds - 417 (SF will generally outrebound his SG if he is any good)
Assists - 353 (30 less)
Steals - 124 (1 more)
Blocks - 57 (1 more)

1 guy is scoring at a phenomenal rate while filling up the stat sheet in other areas and the other guy is a great all around player that isn't shouldering the scoring load. Jordan is higher in scoring, assists, the same in steals and blocks and lower in rebounding. This doesn't take away from what he was producing at all. No need to throw out misleading and in some cases outright wrong arguments to prop up your argument.

Scoffs. Well when you have Jordan Jockers running around with this childish 6 of 6 they throw in everyone's face admit that he had more help than anyone else during that time relative to what other teams had vs the Bulls. Isn't the general consensus when Boston was sweeping Chicago in the 80s...."oh MJ had no help!" And the same for the Pistons. So why aren't they shedding tears for Ewing when he played his tail off in 93 while MJ underperformed and had a more talented team?

Jordan couldn't hit the barn side of a barrel for the bulk of the 93 ECF and only wins that series and goes on to win the title that year because of Pippens all around brilliance and I'm to believe his peak is unmatched when I never once saw a poor series from peak 92-95 Olajuwon or hardly if ever b2b poor games? I don't think so. I never saw him start a series with 3 straight stinkers a la MJ. He wouldn't have even reached the 2nd rd any of those 3 years playing that poorly.

[Ballerhogger]

Hakeem 93 and 94
Is my pick because how dominant he was in the playoffs .

[SkyHookFTW]

This is a tough comparison. Hakeem is the best balanced player of the bunch but doesn't really excel over the other three in any single area.

Jordan is number one. The stats don't lie when it comes to Jordan. I'm not even counting rings, which I really don't like to do anyway. Superb defense, elite scoring. I will add that after he came back to play he had trouble with quicker players. I would say from 1985-93 his defense was outstanding. I am putting emphasis on this because I think his defense gets overlooked due to his offensive skills. You always had a chance to win the game with peak MJ. What more can you say?

I put Shaq at number two. At his peak, he was the best rim defender in the game. His power under the basket allowed him to take a beating and still drop buckets and scoop the boards better than anyone in his peak years at that time. Absolute defensive anchor and surprisingly mobile in his younger days. No one could stop him from scoring inside. If given a chance to start a franchise with any of these four at their peak, I'd lean towards Shaq because GOAT/near GOAT-level big men who can anchor a defense like Shaq are the rarest of players. Heck, Wilt and Shaq are just about the only two I can say that I have seen in person that can do it at GOAT level (KAJ was a hell of a defender but did get pushed around...should have had a few more pounds on him).

LeBron is number three. No need to expound on the best player in the game today. Great defender (why people knock his defense I don't fully understand). I not sure he has reached his peak yet. I think he benefits a bit from the lack of really strong/skilled centers. Peak Howard gets crushed by peak Wilt, Shaq, or KAJ. That's not Lebron's fault, as the game has changed. When his career is over, he will have a pile of points, rebounds, assists, and a lot of fans proclaiming his greatness. Maybe they are right.

Hakeem is number four on this list, and that bothers me a little bit. He was such a well-rounded player. Defense, scoring, quickness...all there. Would easily be the best center in the game today. He was so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. Excellent fundamentals. Also, I recall him doing rather well against Shaq in 1995.

No one deserves to be last on this list, as they were/are so good.

[GYK]

Shaq was the best peak ever, his stretch from 00-03 I would take over any three year stretch. Him having one MVP is a crime but history is history and his career gets demoted.
Jordan next 88-91

Lebron is one of the 5 players I would rate 99 but wasn't better then these two at any stretch(3 seasons or the first 10 seasons)

[Quotatious]

Lebron is one of the 5 players I would rate 99 but wasn't better then these two at any stretch(3 seasons or the first 10 seasons)

Just wondering - who are the other two? I assume Hakeem is one of them, and the other would be Kareem, right?

[Swagalicious]

1. MJ 91
2. Shaq 00
3. Hakeem 94
4. KAJ 77
5. LeBron 12

Why is Kareem getting disrespected? He's an absolute legend.

[GYK]

Lebron is one of the 5 players I would rate 99 but wasn't better then these two at any stretch(3 seasons or the first 10 seasons)

Just wondering - who are the other two? I assume Hakeem is one of them, and the other would be Kareem, right?

Jordan
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron

Hakeem is a little overrated(overrated is overrated and become more of a sting then I intend).
A great player. But wasn't the scorer Wilt/KAJ/Shaq was. Nor playmaker.
Certainly a better defender then Shaq and in the top 10.
Wilt and Kareem are also in my top ten with the career of anchor top 5 defenses.
If Hakeem was a rating it would be 95 like Magic/Bird/Kobe/Duncan/Russell/Moses/Karl

[Quotatious]

Jordan
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron

Hakeem is a little overrated(overrated is overrated and become more of a sting then I intend).
A great player. But wasn't the scorer Wilt/KAJ/Shaq was. Nor playmaker.

If we're talking about peaks, I would have to disagree about Hakeem not being as good of a playmaker as Shaq or Kareem. Passing was definitely his weakness before 1993, but Olajuwon's peak is commonly accepted as 1993 or 1994, and that's when he was IMO as complete of a player as anyone who ever played NBA basketball (peak LeBron, Hakeem and Jordan are the top 3 on my list, in terms of having the least amount of weaknesses - then I'd probably put Kareem and Oscar).
Hakeem's AST/TOV ratio was even better in the playoffs (as a matter of fact, he stepped up his game in all areas, in the postseason), and I'd say he was definitely better than Shaq or Kareem as far as putting the ball on the floor (I don't think any center in NBA history is better at that than Olajuwon).

Wilt is also on my list, as far as the highest peaks (actually #2 after Jordan - if we're talking about the regular season, I'd even take Chamberlain slightly over Jordan, but MJ seemed to be clearly better in the playoffs), so I'm glad to see that you put him in your top 5.

Wilt and Kareem are also in my top ten with the career of anchor top 5 defenses.

I don't have Wilt or Kareem in my top 10 as far as defense is concerned. Both had great defensive peaks (especially Wilt, in 1964 or 1968), but I don't think very highly of their consistency. Chamberlain is top 15 though, and Kareem just slightly behind, top 20.

If Hakeem was a rating it would be 95 like Magic/Bird/Kobe/Duncan/Russell/Moses/Karl

Interesting to see Karl and Moses so high. What's the reasoning?

[GYK]

Jordan
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron

Hakeem is a little overrated(overrated is overrated and become more of a sting then I intend).
A great player. But wasn't the scorer Wilt/KAJ/Shaq was. Nor playmaker.

If we're talking about peaks, I would have to disagree about Hakeem not being as good of a playmaker as Shaq or Kareem. Passing was definitely his weakness before 1993, but Olajuwon's peak is commonly accepted as 1993 or 1994, and that's when he was IMO as complete of a player as anyone who ever played NBA basketball (peak LeBron, Hakeem and Jordan are the top 3 on my list, in terms of having the least amount of weaknesses - then I'd probably put Kareem and Oscar).
Hakeem's AST/TOV ratio was even better in the playoffs (as a matter of fact, he stepped up his game in all areas, in the postseason), and I'd say he was definitely better than Shaq or Kareem as far as putting the ball on the floor (I don't think any center in NBA history is better at that than Olajuwon).

Wilt is also on my list, as far as the highest peaks (actually #2 after Jordan - if we're talking about the regular season, I'd even take Chamberlain slightly over Jordan, but MJ seemed to be clearly better in the playoffs), so I'm glad to see that you put him in your top 5.

Wilt and Kareem are also in my top ten with the career of anchor top 5 defenses.

I don't have Wilt or Kareem in my top 10 as far as defense is concerned. Both had great defensive peaks (especially Wilt, in 1964 or 1968), but I don't think very highly of their consistency. Chamberlain is top 15 though, and Kareem just slightly behind, top 20.

If Hakeem was a rating it would be 95 like Magic/Bird/Kobe/Duncan/Russell/Moses/Karl

Interesting to see Karl and Moses so high. What's the reasoning?

Well I was talking careers but peaks work just as well. He still is as good as the others.
If your talking PS Kareem/Shaq certainly raised their games higher then their already better levels. Wilt regressed a bit but at the level he was at it would still get priority pick. You change his stats for pace and see the gap he had over his team Wilt PS regression was from team focusing on him unlike anyone else.
I do agree Hakeem had the best big man dribble moves, if this was most skilled he and Kobe would be the top 2. Blake gets my vote for current big dribble moves. Webber for the 00's.
I think that's unfair. Wilt/Kareem were anchoring great defenses and did so more often the Hakeem. Simply not being the modern example of a great anchor is holding them back.

Karl is offensively superior then 99% of the league history. He is a great scorer, finisher and playmaker. He is great rebounder and above solid defender. I don't want to say great but he was far above average. Simply nothing he lacked.

Moses is the same as Karl. An great scorer/finisher. He's a rebounder on par with the Rodman/Wilt/Russell group. Again not a great defender but above average. His playmaking isn't up to snuff and his career was messy(probably should have ended years ahead of when it did) but was the 80's third best player and for a 12-13 year stretch was nearly perfect.


Also Doc/Oscar might be 95's.

[SkyHookFTW]

Jordan
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Lebron

Hakeem is a little overrated(overrated is overrated and become more of a sting then I intend).
A great player. But wasn't the scorer Wilt/KAJ/Shaq was. Nor playmaker.

If we're talking about peaks, I would have to disagree about Hakeem not being as good of a playmaker as Shaq or Kareem. Passing was definitely his weakness before 1993, but Olajuwon's peak is commonly accepted as 1993 or 1994, and that's when he was IMO as complete of a player as anyone who ever played NBA basketball (peak LeBron, Hakeem and Jordan are the top 3 on my list, in terms of having the least amount of weaknesses - then I'd probably put Kareem and Oscar).
Hakeem's AST/TOV ratio was even better in the playoffs (as a matter of fact, he stepped up his game in all areas, in the postseason), and I'd say he was definitely better than Shaq or Kareem as far as putting the ball on the floor (I don't think any center in NBA history is better at that than Olajuwon).

Wilt is also on my list, as far as the highest peaks (actually #2 after Jordan - if we're talking about the regular season, I'd even take Chamberlain slightly over Jordan, but MJ seemed to be clearly better in the playoffs), so I'm glad to see that you put him in your top 5.

Wilt and Kareem are also in my top ten with the career of anchor top 5 defenses.

I don't have Wilt or Kareem in my top 10 as far as defense is concerned. Both had great defensive peaks (especially Wilt, in 1964 or 1968), but I don't think very highly of their consistency. Chamberlain is top 15 though, and Kareem just slightly behind, top 20.

If Hakeem was a rating it would be 95 like Magic/Bird/Kobe/Duncan/Russell/Moses/Karl

Interesting to see Karl and Moses so high. What's the reasoning?

I think you're seriously underrating Wilt's defense. He is the only guy who I ever saw get up high and block KAJ's hook, and that at age 36. He is the ultimate rim defender--raw strength, length, and serious hops. I had front row seats and saw Russell, Wilt, KAJ, Shaq...gotta say I'd take Wilt by a hair for defense, followed by Shaq.

[Gregoire]

This is a tough comparison. Hakeem is the best balanced player of the bunch but doesn't really excel over the other three in any single area.

Jordan is number one. The stats don't lie when it comes to Jordan. I'm not even counting rings, which I really don't like to do anyway. Superb defense, elite scoring. I will add that after he came back to play he had trouble with quicker players. I would say from 1985-93 his defense was outstanding. I am putting emphasis on this because I think his defense gets overlooked due to his offensive skills. You always had a chance to win the game with peak MJ. What more can you say?

I put Shaq at number two. At his peak, he was the best rim defender in the game. His power under the basket allowed him to take a beating and still drop buckets and scoop the boards better than anyone in his peak years at that time. Absolute defensive anchor and surprisingly mobile in his younger days. No one could stop him from scoring inside. If given a chance to start a franchise with any of these four at their peak, I'd lean towards Shaq because GOAT/near GOAT-level big men who can anchor a defense like Shaq are the rarest of players. Heck, Wilt and Shaq are just about the only two I can say that I have seen in person that can do it at GOAT level (KAJ was a hell of a defender but did get pushed around...should have had a few more pounds on him).

LeBron is number three. No need to expound on the best player in the game today. Great defender (why people knock his defense I don't fully understand). I not sure he has reached his peak yet. I think he benefits a bit from the lack of really strong/skilled centers. Peak Howard gets crushed by peak Wilt, Shaq, or KAJ. That's not Lebron's fault, as the game has changed. When his career is over, he will have a pile of points, rebounds, assists, and a lot of fans proclaiming his greatness. Maybe they are right.

Hakeem is number four on this list, and that bothers me a little bit. He was such a well-rounded player. Defense, scoring, quickness...all there. Would easily be the best center in the game today. He was so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. Excellent fundamentals. Also, I recall him doing rather well against Shaq in 1995.

No one deserves to be last on this list, as they were/are so good.

Its your rankings according peak years or careers? Why Jordan is for you best peak ever if you would start franchise with Shaq?

[Gregoire]

Shaq was the best peak ever, his stretch from 00-03 I would take over any three year stretch. Him having one MVP is a crime but history is history and his career gets demoted.
Jordan next 88-91

Lebron is one of the 5 players I would rate 99 but wasn't better then these two at any stretch(3 seasons or the first 10 seasons)

And how do you rank their best one-year stretches, not 3year?

[GYK]

Shaq was the best peak ever, his stretch from 00-03 I would take over any three year stretch. Him having one MVP is a crime but history is history and his career gets demoted.
Jordan next 88-91

Lebron is one of the 5 players I would rate 99 but wasn't better then these two at any stretch(3 seasons or the first 10 seasons)

And how do you rank their best one-year stretches, not 3year?

Hard to rank single seasons for me. The picking of which season is the most difficult.
89 Jordan is the best regular season for me but as a whole season it would fall short compared to what the other two accomplished.
13 Lebron is perfect. Jordan GOAT season is the best but he forced it down the leagues throat. The team wasn't great. On neither side of the ball was the team elite so he picked up a cape and went super nova. Lebron in 13 was also great but he acknowledged his greatness, saw the talent around him and played accordingly. He took all the fat out of his game. Took nearly all spot up three's or pump step in's. He drove to the rim in transition or in the drive. Taking very few "balling" shots. So few that the ones he did stick out in your memory. He was attacking to rim like no one I ever seen and from there being more selective then any star I ever witnessed. It's a perfect season.
00Shaq has the obvious flaw of FT shooting. He was more dominant then Lebron. But it wasn't perfect. Lebron was perfection.

That was a lot so
13Lebron for perfection as a wing
00Shaq for being an absolute force of nature
89MJ GOAT regular season and even without a ring or Finals appearance gets to be mentioned with these other two.