DJ needs to go, and definitely does NOT deserve the max.

[MartinToVaught]

Let's be real: DJ's "defense" is a product of the weakness of the center position in today's league. Every time we face a team with a real center, like Gasol today, he looks like a fifth-grade CYO player who got plopped down into an NBA game.

It'd be one thing if he had any offensive skill to make up for it, but he can only dunk. Basically, the only argument he has is "athleticism," and Stromile Swift was "athletic" too. Giving a max contract (or anything close to it) to a center with zero offensive game when he's this overrated defensively is a recipe for disaster.

We have made too many bad roster moves already in the last few years... let's not compound our mistakes by paying DJ.

[Neddy]

i dunno man, i think this is a knee jerk reactionary thread.

I do agree that today's NBA lacks the great centers of the yesteryears, such as (H)Akeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, the Chief aka Robert Parrish, Kareem, Mychael Thompson, Dikembe Mutombo, Shaq or Alonzo. hell Stanley Roberts could do some major damage if he could keep his weight below 350. but this is a different game than what it used to be too. back then there were a lot more back to the basket plays, today's game is a ball movement and a open jumper game. we didn't have too many "stretch bigs" in our youth. only Bill Laimbeer comes to mind.

it is what it is, I do agree that even tho someone will give DJ a max, he really doesn't have the skill set to be a max player. what i do wish, is that after next year's big TV negotiations and the salary cap goes way up, the union rallies to disband cap altogether and go with the baseball like true capitalism system. we have the biggest pocket in the second biggest market. we can spend money. if these two come true, DJ's max deal after this season won't look bad at all.

[MartinToVaught]

i dunno man, i think this is a knee jerk reactionary thread.

It's not. It's an opinion I've had for years now and the results keep backing it up. DJ is fools' gold, and we really need to let some other team be the fool for once.

[Clemenza]

I don't know what to think at this point. Of course he's not a max player. He disappears in every big game against a big opponent. He was MIA against OKC in the playoffs last year and he basically had a "did not play(DNP)" today against Marc Gasol. I really want to see what we look like with some athletic wings on the team where less would be expected of him and he would be exposed as a guy that doesn't deserve no more than ten million a year but on this team he's somewhat considered part of a "Big 3" scenario so his price tag is inflated. But our coach is infatuated with nothing but shooters so it is what it is.

But we might have to trade him if it comes down to it. Can't let him potentially walk for free

[Neddy]

i dunno man, i think this is a knee jerk reactionary thread.

It's not. It's an opinion I've had for years now and the results keep backing it up. DJ is fools' gold, and we really need to let some other team be the fool for once.

but here is the spin doctor worthy of a counter argument.

if we sign DJ to max now but the following year's TV revenue allows the cap space to rise in 25%, all of a sudden DJ's contract is no longer a max deal only after 1 year. it could be equivalent to today's current deal DJ has.

to have the league leading rebounder at DJ's current deal's value for years to come, granted the cap rises significantly, could actually be a bargain.

[MartinToVaught]

i dunno man, i think this is a knee jerk reactionary thread.

It's not. It's an opinion I've had for years now and the results keep backing it up. DJ is fools' gold, and we really need to let some other team be the fool for once.

but here is the spin doctor worthy of a counter argument.

if we sign DJ to max now but the following year's TV revenue allows the cap space to rise in 25%, all of a sudden DJ's contract is no longer a max deal only after 1 year. it could be equivalent to today's current deal DJ has.

to have the league leading rebounder at DJ's current deal's value for years to come, granted the cap rises significantly, could actually be a bargain.

Personally, I don't even think DJ is worth his current contract, so even if the cap space rises, it's still not that great. That money can be spent elsewhere. There are cheap role players who can provide most of what DJ provides, and maybe whose balls won't shrink every time they face a playoff team.

[Neddy]

It's not. It's an opinion I've had for years now and the results keep backing it up. DJ is fools' gold, and we really need to let some other team be the fool for once.

but here is the spin doctor worthy of a counter argument.

if we sign DJ to max now but the following year's TV revenue allows the cap space to rise in 25%, all of a sudden DJ's contract is no longer a max deal only after 1 year. it could be equivalent to today's current deal DJ has.

to have the league leading rebounder at DJ's current deal's value for years to come, granted the cap rises significantly, could actually be a bargain.

Personally, I don't even think DJ is worth his current contract, so even if the cap space rises, it's still not that great. That money can be spent elsewhere. There are cheap role players who can provide most of what DJ provides, and maybe whose balls won't shrink every time they face a playoff team.

but you can't coach size and athleticism. DJ at today's contract at today's NBA's economy, is worth his current contract. to push him to earn the max? i have a problem with that but for 10 to 12 million, he certainly is outperforming many centers in that price range. take McGee for example.

[KDRE]

They could probably get away with it to win but this team needs changes badly. They've made some bad decisions the past couple of years and are worse for it.

This is not a good team and without a real big 3 they'll never advance.

At this point its broken and the current formula wont work. Someone needs to let Doc know he needs someone who can fix this roster. Its not coincidence they dont have any real killers on the sqad. As much as I love Blake, he's not it. The guy gets pushed around and gets that scared look on his face and is half in the game.

Most of the time the team just plays dumb basketball. They arent very good together and probably less athletic than in the last 4 years. Thats long enough to know if a core can make it or not.

[KDRE]

double post

[Clemenza]

but here is the spin doctor worthy of a counter argument.

if we sign DJ to max now but the following year's TV revenue allows the cap space to rise in 25%, all of a sudden DJ's contract is no longer a max deal only after 1 year. it could be equivalent to today's current deal DJ has.

to have the league leading rebounder at DJ's current deal's value for years to come, granted the cap rises significantly, could actually be a bargain.

Personally, I don't even think DJ is worth his current contract, so even if the cap space rises, it's still not that great. That money can be spent elsewhere. There are cheap role players who can provide most of what DJ provides, and maybe whose balls won't shrink every time they face a playoff team.

but you can't coach size and athleticism. DJ at today's contract at today's NBA's economy, is worth his current contract. to push him to earn the max? i have a problem with that but for 10 to 12 million, he certainly is outperforming many centers in that price range. take McGee for example.

I think DJ's greatest strength is that he's rarely injured and pretty much plays the entire 82 game schedule. *knocks on wood* -and that's extremely hard to find these days in the NBA. Now forget his offense.. if he brought it every game defensively like a Rodman or Ben Wallace that would be a different story. But he's literally no where to be found in a lot of games especially against quality competition. Some games he's great with the rebounds, put back dunks, and a few blocks but its getting really rare. But I really would like to see what our team would be with a respectable SF on the team. Everyone's job would be easier including DJ's. Just think if we had a guy that could either pull up for a jumper or slash to the basket where he would either shoot it, draw a foul or dump it off to a big underneath the basket for a easy bucket. We have nothing like that currently.

[Neddy]

Personally, I don't even think DJ is worth his current contract, so even if the cap space rises, it's still not that great. That money can be spent elsewhere. There are cheap role players who can provide most of what DJ provides, and maybe whose balls won't shrink every time they face a playoff team.

but you can't coach size and athleticism. DJ at today's contract at today's NBA's economy, is worth his current contract. to push him to earn the max? i have a problem with that but for 10 to 12 million, he certainly is outperforming many centers in that price range. take McGee for example.

I think DJ's greatest strength is that he's rarely injured and pretty much plays the entire 82 game schedule. *knocks on wood* -and that's extremely hard to find these days in the NBA. Now forget his offense.. if he brought it every game defensively like a Rodman or Ben Wallace that would be a different story. But he's literally no where to be found in a lot of games especially against quality competition. Some games he's great with the rebounds, put back dunks, and a few blocks but its getting really rare. But I really would like to see what our team would be with a respectable SF on the team. Everyone's job would be easier including DJ's. Just think if we had a guy that could either pull up for a jumper or slash to the basket where he would either shoot it, draw a foul or dump it off to a big underneath the basket for a easy bucket. We have nothing like that currently.

I think this is probably the most underrated but important point not to miss. if we had say a guy like iggudala or ariza, our defense suddenly would have two elite defenders in whichever the SF plus Paul. then with these two to anchor, you add DJ in the middle with less responsibility, even JJs and Blakes TRex arms we can play better defense with enough to compensate for the TRex bros playing okay team defense and pretty ugly one on one defense. if we make a trade to bring in two more elite to above average defenders, suddenly we are a defensive power house with three defenders you can depend on, plus DJ, would look simply nasty on that other end of his court. with a team like this, DJ's rebounding will look even more impressive and lead the league by a wide margin.

well let's have the speculations begin! time to fool around with the NBA trade machine.

[Forte IV]

If only we ended up trading Bledsoe for DeRozan and not the trash that was Dudley and (in my opinion) the averageness of Redick.

[LACtdom]

I cringe when DJ misses simple dunks.

[og15]

Well I'm not sure if DJ was going to demand the max, or if we would even give him the max.

DJ's defense has never been about his man to man defense, so I wouldn't call his defense a product of what C's can or can't do. The biggest need with big men on defense is their help defense, pick and roll, getting to spots and rotating, communication, weak side shot blocking.

[Roscoe Sheed]

If only we ended up trading Bledsoe for DeRozan and not the trash that was Dudley and (in my opinion) the averageness of Redick.

Was Derozan really being offered for Bledsoe?

[Forte IV]

If only we ended up trading Bledsoe for DeRozan and not the trash that was Dudley and (in my opinion) the averageness of Redick.

Was Derozan really being offered for Bledsoe?

I'm pretty sure that was one of the rumors. Granted, it was when DeRozan was seen as nothing but an athletic 3 who couldn't shoot.

[QRich3]

He's definitely the most polarizing guy in our roster, there are days when I watch him and think he can be one of the most valuable guys in the league if he figures out how to properly play defense, but most days it's just frustrating to see watch him be lost on the court without a clue of what he's supposed to do.

I love his offensive game, even though he's not skilled with the ball, he's a massive threat anytime he's near the rim and is great at finding open space and converting anything you throw at the basket area. He's a great screener when he's paying attention, and that's a very important part of offense. Too bad that we also have Blake, who is the best guy not named Lebron at scoring in the paint, and both occupy the same space making the fit slightly awkward.

The problem is his defense, if he ever turns the corner from low IQ help defender who just randomly tries to block shots, and starts to "get it" like Ibaka did, or like a young Chandler did, he'd become one of the 15-20 most valuable players in the league, and exactly the kind of guy we need. But that's what I've been hoping since we drafted him, and I've been patiently waiting for him to improve in that area for years and years, but nothing... he's been over 5 years in the league and he still doesn't understand where he needs to be on complex or long plays, how to rotate when the offense switches from their 1st option play to the 2nd and 3rd, and how to properly protect the rim. And even though I've been really patient with him, I'm starting to think he'll never be that guy.

He fell to us on draft day because he was supposed to be a lazy, hard-to-coach stiff, and not clever enough to understand complicated NBA stuff. Well guess what, that's been exactly his problem in the league and it doesn't seem he's any closer to figure it out. I was encouraged at the end of last year because he got much better on the pick'n'roll, he became good at reading the ball handler movements and for a moment it seemed like might be starting to get it, but roll on this season and he's the same moron he's ever been.

If we pay him the max and he keeps being exactly who he is now, we're f*cked and there goes any chance at ever winning a chip, if we let him go on FA we're pretty f*cked still, since we won't have any capspace to get someone to replace him. So, I'm not against a trade. I'm tired of looking at the carrot of what he might become, I'm ok with selling now that he's perceived a good player and still has some upside left, even if it's not very likely he ever reaches it.

Problem is, him being a FA at the end of the season, there's not a big market for him. Small market teams that are not competitive right now are not gonna give us their assets for him when he'd probably walk away on them. Maybe we can send him to Cleveland for Waiters/Thompson and a pick or two, and use those pieces in a three-team-trade to get another C or a SF that we can use? Would the Hawks give up Horford for a similar package?

[TheNewEra]

He's definitely the most polarizing guy in our roster, there are days when I watch him and think he can be one of the most valuable guys in the league if he figures out how to properly play defense, but most days it's just frustrating to see watch him be lost on the court without a clue of what he's supposed to do.

I love his offensive game, even though he's not skilled with the ball, he's a massive threat anytime he's near the rim and is great at finding open space and converting anything you throw at the basket area. He's a great screener when he's paying attention, and that's a very important part of offense. Too bad that we also have Blake, who is the best guy not named Lebron at scoring in the paint, and both occupy the same space making the fit slightly awkward.

The problem is his defense, if he ever turns the corner from low IQ help defender who just randomly tries to block shots, and starts to "get it" like Ibaka did, or like a young Chandler did, he'd become one of the 15-20 most valuable players in the league, and exactly the kind of guy we need. But that's what I've been hoping since we drafted him, and I've been patiently waiting for him to improve in that area for years and years, but nothing... he's been over 5 years in the league and he still doesn't understand where he needs to be on complex or long plays, how to rotate when the offense switches from their 1st option play to the 2nd and 3rd, and how to properly protect the rim. And even though I've been really patient with him, I'm starting to think he'll never be that guy.

He fell to us on draft day because he was supposed to be a lazy, hard-to-coach stiff, and not clever enough to understand complicated NBA stuff. Well guess what, that's been exactly his problem in the league and it doesn't seem he's any closer to figure it out. I was encouraged at the end of last year because he got much better on the pick'n'roll, he became good at reading the ball handler movements and for a moment it seemed like might be starting to get it, but roll on this season and he's the same moron he's ever been.

If we pay him the max and he keeps being exactly who he is now, we're f*cked and there goes any chance at ever winning a chip, if we let him go on FA we're pretty f*cked still, since we won't have any capspace to get someone to replace him. So, I'm not against a trade. I'm tired of looking at the carrot of what he might become, I'm ok with selling now that he's perceived a good player and still has some upside left, even if it's not very likely he ever reaches it.

Problem is, him being a FA at the end of the season, there's not a big market for him. Small market teams that are not competitive right now are not gonna give us their assets for him when he'd probably walk away on them. Maybe we can send him to Cleveland for Waiters/Thompson and a pick or two, and use those pieces in a three-team-trade to get another C or a SF that we can use? Would the Hawks give up Horford for a similar package?

Haha the first part is the same issues with Blake and Paul. Enjoy the ride people.

[og15]

Paul and Blake ARE one of the most valuable guys in the league most nights though

[WillyJakkz]

At the start of the season I have wondered what you guys would look like with Roy Hibbert as your C and though he is nowhere near the athlete DJ is (probably the understatement of the year) I think he's a consistently better man defender than Jordan will ever be.

You guys definitely wouldn't be as flashy of course but may be a better team with a guy like that.

Oh yeah I always thought Tyson Chandler would've been perfect for y'all as well.