Knicks Vs. Dal PG...Nothing stops our TANK.

[Thugger HBC]

Reading this thread makes me realize something. Either NY or Dallas got Bizarro Tyson Chandler and the other city got the real guy.

All the things you guys are ripping the guy for not doing are exactly what he brought here the first go-around and has brought back again.

I have some theories:

1. Tyson Chandler fancies himself a leader--especially on the defensive end. Dirk wasn't threatened by this because Dirk has always been more a lead by example guy than a vocal guy. So he was willing to let Chandler be big voice in the locker room. I wonder if that "big voice" didn't go over as well in a Melo-led locker room?

2. You always have to look at the money and we've had him in contract years both times. Of course it doesn't explain him taking the Knicks defense from poor to really good and winning the DPOY immediately after getting paid.

3. Tyson hates losing more than most players. Some Knicks guys appeared to really not give an F last year and I can imagine Tyson probably chewed some guys tails. Fans don't like the angry voice even if ultimately he is correct.

4. Tyson somehow got really bad at basketball for 3 years, but is good again?

Chuck - I wouldn't pay it much mind. Tyson put in 2 really solid years here. Last year he got injured in game 3 and then it got personal with him when he came back and couldn't save the team. He went into sensitive sulky mode and a lot of fans here are pretty salty about it.

That is a big part of why you got him back though.

Dallas got him back because he spilled the beans on Phil's plans. No one other than Tyson said he was not gonna waste a year, had no interest in rebuilding, and hoped that wasnt the case.

He knew, didnt support it, then was traded. Imo, I dont think he leaves Dallas this time around, unless it's for a legit contender.

[TheBigBoss]

He got injured in game 3 or 4 to start the season

So? He played like he played tonight in all those games then got hurt.

He also played very well during the regular seasons he was here with us exception of last year coming back from injury and even then he was not that damn bad. The thing with Tyson tough is that he's more like the final piece, he's not a core piece.

He had one good game to start the season. That's it.

Tyson is 100% a final piece, and we were far from a contending team last year, but he still played like he has a broken dick the whole year...and a broken heart. I have nothing against players who play hard no matter how bad they are (see Jared Jeffries) -- Tyson simply didn't play hard last year 90% of the time.

One of the best post in this thread

[knicknack]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA[/youtube]

I needed one of these tonight.

I laughed my ass off!!!!!

WE NEED THIS TO BE THE FIRST POST OF EVERY LOSS THREAD!

This gif should be our theme for the rest of the year!

Seriously, there isn't a Knick fan who doesn't feel like crying like this after so many disappointing seasons......its positive therapy....for us all!!!!!!

[knicknack]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/537811826474356737[/tweet]

It's really the best of both worlds. While you know they have no shot to win anything significant, they at least can be competitive enough to not get blown out every night.

A loss is a win in that respect.

And so we all fear that somehow we will win enough games to not get a top 5 talent!

[Hijinks]

this negativity on this board is killing me right now. where is the NY "F the world" attitude? Instead all are in here crying about how bad this team is and pretend, that this losing is all for a greater good. who knows what kind of player we would draft. I'd rather see knicks win some games.

y'all are the same people who slander every knicks player and will praise them, when they're on a winning team next season.

[Brooklyn_Yards]

1. Tyson Chandler fancies himself a leader--especially on the defensive end. Dirk wasn't threatened by this because Dirk has always been more a lead by example guy than a vocal guy. So he was willing to let Chandler be big voice in the locker room. I wonder if that "big voice" didn't go over as well in a Melo-led locker room?

This is exactly what I think happened to the team and I'm disgusted with Melo for it. He isn't half the leader Tyson is.

Even tonight with him not playing, the ball was moving more and guys were giving maximum effort. Our point guards weren't marginalized and they were given chances to facilitate for everyone else. It's starting to seem like the Knicks have a lot more fun playing the game without Melo on the court. And who can blame them?

Melo is a ball-stopper and a me-first player. On top of that, he isn't vocal and he isn't a strong personality. Instead, he acts like a weezle. He'll get a coach fired or create a rift in the locker room before he'll own up to his own shortcomings and change his game for the betterment of the team.

This is what I notice and I'm not afraid to say it. Melo said he was "all in" this year and it doesn't look like it. The offense looks exactly how it looked last year with Melo on the floor and he seems perfectly fine with that, until the losses pile up and he's ready to point fingers again. As if his teammates are supposed to be %100 invested in something that doesn't benefit them or the team as a whole.

Maybe if Melo had been leading this team to more victories than losses, guys would be singing a different tune about playing his way..

...For the love of god put your glasses back on. Talk about pushing an agenda.

[kingquan316]

this negativity on this board is killing me right now. where is the NY "F the world" attitude? Instead all are in here crying about how bad this team is and pretend, that this losing is all for a greater good. who knows what kind of player we would draft. I'd rather see knicks win some games.

y'all are the same people who slander every knicks player and will praise them, when they're on a winning team next season.

There comes a point where winning doesn't do much when your best shot is an 8th seed, and you just killed your chance (and I emphasize chance, cause I'm not guaranteeing anything) at a potential all-star or franchise player. I'll just bring up Michael Sweetney in 2003 in a loaded draft, and how winning hurt the Knicks greatly when that team should of just tank for a top 5 pick. And if you mention the many busts in the draft, I can mention as much franchise or all star players that were picked by a team that just sucked the year before. So you can be "F the world" attitude and trying to win every game, but you will be shaking your head if they get the 9th seed and be stuck in the worst possible spot you can be in (which they have been in the past decade when they had their own draft pick. Look it up and see how many players they lost out on by being average, and not just sucking and tanking).

[Governor Dudley]

Aint no limit to how far this tank can roll.

Ugggggggh, na na na na.

[Hijinks]

this negativity on this board is killing me right now. where is the NY "F the world" attitude? Instead all are in here crying about how bad this team is and pretend, that this losing is all for a greater good. who knows what kind of player we would draft. I'd rather see knicks win some games.

y'all are the same people who slander every knicks player and will praise them, when they're on a winning team next season.

There comes a point where winning doesn't do much when your best shot is an 8th seed, and you just killed your chance (and I emphasize chance, cause I'm not guaranteeing anything) at a potential all-star or franchise player. I'll just bring up Michael Sweetney in 2003 in a loaded draft, and how winning hurt the Knicks greatly when that team should of just tank for a top 5 pick. And if you mention the many busts in the draft, I can mention as much franchise or all star players that were picked by a team that just sucked the year before. So you can be "F the world" attitude and trying to win every game, but you will be shaking your head if they get the 9th seed and be stuck in the worst possible spot you can be in (which they have been in the past decade when they had their own draft pick. Look it up and see how many players they lost out on by being average, and not just sucking and tanking).

that's not my point. we could draft a new lebron who flew under the radar in college or a new bargnani. either way this board is so bi-polar. they praise every move phil has done just to hate on each and every player game after game, since the season is disappointing. they take comfort in the fact, that tanking makes reason out of this misery.

i am not for tanking nor am i against tanking. I`d prefer my team to win games, but i also know, that in the long run a first round exit won't help much.

My annoyance comes more from the fact, that everybody seems to be ok with tanking. it's hyprocritical to me.

[HixNixKnicksTix]

today was a good day

7....7-11....7-11... 7 even back door little joe

[kingquan316]

this negativity on this board is killing me right now. where is the NY "F the world" attitude? Instead all are in here crying about how bad this team is and pretend, that this losing is all for a greater good. who knows what kind of player we would draft. I'd rather see knicks win some games.

y'all are the same people who slander every knicks player and will praise them, when they're on a winning team next season.

There comes a point where winning doesn't do much when your best shot is an 8th seed, and you just killed your chance (and I emphasize chance, cause I'm not guaranteeing anything) at a potential all-star or franchise player. I'll just bring up Michael Sweetney in 2003 in a loaded draft, and how winning hurt the Knicks greatly when that team should of just tank for a top 5 pick. And if you mention the many busts in the draft, I can mention as much franchise or all star players that were picked by a team that just sucked the year before. So you can be "F the world" attitude and trying to win every game, but you will be shaking your head if they get the 9th seed and be stuck in the worst possible spot you can be in (which they have been in the past decade when they had their own draft pick. Look it up and see how many players they lost out on by being average, and not just sucking and tanking).

that's not my point. we could draft a new lebron who flew under the radar in college or a new bargnani. either way this board is so bi-polar. they praise every move phil has done just to hate on each and every player game after game, since the season is disappointing. they take comfort in the fact, that tanking makes reason out of this misery.

i am not for tanking nor am i against tanking. I`d prefer my team to win games, but i also know, that in the long run a first round exit won't help much.

My annoyance comes more from the fact, that everybody seems to be ok with tanking. it's hyprocritical to me.

On paper I thought this team would be a lot better and could have competed for the Atlantic. But I was wrong, and I see how this team isn't as talented as I thought it would be. I don't see the big problem with being wrong with what you thought this team is, and then coming to the realization that losing and getting a good draft pick is a better option than winning games. I can't judge Phil yet until draft night, and free agency and how the team does next season. So people saying he is doing a great job, or a terrible job is jumping to conclusion way too early. I do agree with you how some people can change their mind quickly cause of the losing (example the Tyson trade), it is annoying. But being ok with tanking, is ok with me.

[MaseInYourFace]

Knicks have actually played much better these last two games.

[MaseInYourFace]

1. Tyson Chandler fancies himself a leader--especially on the defensive end. Dirk wasn't threatened by this because Dirk has always been more a lead by example guy than a vocal guy. So he was willing to let Chandler be big voice in the locker room. I wonder if that "big voice" didn't go over as well in a Melo-led locker room?

This is exactly what I think happened to the team and I'm disgusted with Melo for it. He isn't half the leader Tyson is.

Even tonight with him not playing, the ball was moving more and guys were giving maximum effort. Our point guards weren't marginalized and they were given chances to facilitate for everyone else. It's starting to seem like the Knicks have a lot more fun playing the game without Melo on the court. And who can blame them?

Melo is a ball-stopper and a me-first player. On top of that, he isn't vocal and he isn't a strong personality. Instead, he acts like a weezle. He'll get a coach fired or create a rift in the locker room before he'll own up to his own shortcomings and change his game for the betterment of the team.

This is what I notice and I'm not afraid to say it. Melo said he was "all in" this year and it doesn't look like it. The offense looks exactly how it looked last year with Melo on the floor and he seems perfectly fine with that, until the losses pile up and he's ready to point fingers again. As if his teammates are supposed to be %100 invested in something that doesn't benefit them or the team as a whole.

Maybe if Melo had been leading this team to more victories than losses, guys would be singing a different tune about playing his way..

I don't love Melo as a leader but what you are saying is bogus. When Knicks most needed Chandler to step up and lead he shrinked, I'm talking about when the losses piled up last season and in the playoffs in past seasons. Chandler is a flaky guy, always has been always will be, he is not a good leader. Give me a break. He can be an effective player though when he gives a damn.

The reason guys are playing better without Melo is because they are playing more focused and less passive now that Melo is not here, they don't have a choice if they want to win. But clearly they need Melo late in games. Your star players win close games for you.

[bballoctober]

Was it a coincidence we went to a military academy for training camp ? F no, #tanking101 was taught that week!

[nykballa2k4]

this negativity on this board is killing me right now. where is the NY "F the world" attitude? Instead all are in here crying about how bad this team is and pretend, that this losing is all for a greater good. who knows what kind of player we would draft. I'd rather see knicks win some games.

y'all are the same people who slander every knicks player and will praise them, when they're on a winning team next season.

Winning at all costs has caused us to plateau at mediocre. At least if we get a top 5 pick we have a chance at having 3 difference maker players making a total of 48 mil on our cap. That would be huge. Add to that Calderon as a role player and we are in the 50's with 4 starting positions set.

Okafor
Millsap
Melo
Shumpert
Calderon

Hardaway, Acy, Cole, Pablo, Wear

that fits in the cap.
AND that is a conservative off-season. Should we find a good deal for Iman, trade Smith outright for cap, trade Dalembert and Larkin for assets, find a way to turn Bargnani and/or Amare into something then we are in that much better shape.

Maybe we decide Hardaway is a non-learner and we turn him into an asset (Henson).

IMO as long as we are competing and playing like we did last night, I can't mind the losing. It is not like I should expect Dalembert to be a glorious finisher in traffic. It is not like I should expect Jason Smith to be more than he ever has been.

[godkingleonidas]

How about Calderon though? You can certainly see the value he adds to this team. Smart player, good passer, elite shooter...he brings a lot of things to the table that we need.

just like we shouldnt sign anyone with the initials JJ, or hire anyone named Isiah, no more JSmiths on the team...please get those clowns off this team by next season.

He's a floor general. He really needs to get in JR's face. The ball movement stops as soon as JR catches the ball. He made some nice assists in the paint but, I had to wonder if didnt make those passes because he had nowhere else to go. He should take way fewer 3s & try to look for an open teammate. Use some screens once in a while instead of taking so many contested shots. My only knock on Calderon is that instead of shuffling his feet, he should just take the charges. What is he afraid of?

[godkingleonidas]

All his buckets were spot up 3 pointers. You need to compensate for where he lacks elsewhere penetration, finishing at the bucket, and defending and I don't like compensating. On championship team he's a spot up 3 point shooter.. nothing else and nothing more.

Really? I thought his shooting spaced the floor. As well, he had a lot of drives , especially in transition. → http://nbafullgame.blogspot.jp/search/label/New%20York%20Knicks

[Jeff Van Gully]

team balled hard last night. not mad at all. proud of the effort. if we lose, we lose. we're not very good. at least lose with some damn heart and don't let anyone take your cookies.

stoudemire... jesus, man. that was some real net negative schidt every time he was out there late in the game. dalembert would have gotten every single minute down the stretch if i were coaching.

calderon, prigioni, larkin, shump, acy, dalembert... those guys go out there and lay it on the line. they should be driving the tank. if everyone else wants to scrub out, they can ride the pine. we don't need them.

[bballoctober]

1. Tyson Chandler fancies himself a leader--especially on the defensive end. Dirk wasn't threatened by this because Dirk has always been more a lead by example guy than a vocal guy. So he was willing to let Chandler be big voice in the locker room. I wonder if that "big voice" didn't go over as well in a Melo-led locker room?

This is exactly what I think happened to the team and I'm disgusted with Melo for it. He isn't half the leader Tyson is.

Even tonight with him not playing, the ball was moving more and guys were giving maximum effort. Our point guards weren't marginalized and they were given chances to facilitate for everyone else. It's starting to seem like the Knicks have a lot more fun playing the game without Melo on the court. And who can blame them?

Melo is a ball-stopper and a me-first player. On top of that, he isn't vocal and he isn't a strong personality. Instead, he acts like a weezle. He'll get a coach fired or create a rift in the locker room before he'll own up to his own shortcomings and change his game for the betterment of the team.

This is what I notice and I'm not afraid to say it. Melo said he was "all in" this year and it doesn't look like it. The offense looks exactly how it looked last year with Melo on the floor and he seems perfectly fine with that, until the losses pile up and he's ready to point fingers again. As if his teammates are supposed to be %100 invested in something that doesn't benefit them or the team as a whole.

Maybe if Melo had been leading this team to more victories than losses, guys would be singing a different tune about playing his way..

I don't love Melo as a leader but what you are saying is bogus. When Knicks most needed Chandler to step up and lead he shrinked, I'm talking about when the losses piled up last season and in the playoffs in past seasons. Chandler is a flaky guy, always has been always will be, he is not a good leader. Give me a break. He can be an effective player though when he gives a damn.

The reason guys are playing better without Melo is because they are playing more focused and less passive now that Melo is not here, they don't have a choice if they want to win. But clearly they need Melo late in games. Your star players win close games for you.

Chandler was average last season but he was great the 2 previous years. The lack of production from our guards was too much for any display of leadership(or lack thereof) to overcome. Not to mention he was injured for 20 games and had to get his rhythm back.

[K_ick_God]

Someone should Photoshop in "Look Who's Tanking" >>