Lowe: Time To Start Investing Some Real 4Q Minutes In JV

[Sandman88]

Casey won a ring. Did Zach Lowe?

[WhatsaTDot]

The outrage over JV's minutes sometimes overshadows the teams success, from this fanbase

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

This thread is 6 pages. Our last win is 23 pages. Our next game is already 12. There's no other thread about JV on the first page.

Stats dont agree with your assertion

[cram]

Stop with this **** of earning minutes. Just stop. He had 27 pts and 12 rebounds in a game against Suns. If that doesnt earn you some minutes in the 4th then what does? He certainly played better than others of the starters and yet ended up rotting on the bench.

So stop this bull excuse "Earn the minutes". Its not about Earning its about the mental block of Casey. In the end it will bite Raptors in the ass as playoffs contribution from him wont be reliable at all specially in late games as he isnt used to play any minutes come the 4th doesnt matter if its matchup or how he plays good or bad he always sits.

Defense earns mins with Casey. Especially at that position. He's developing JV by putting a ladder in front of him and asking him to climb it. That is not a bad thing.

Especially for a big.

Further, Chuck Hayes has been awesome in the 4th. Awesome. Do you not think JV is learning something from watching him?

No you learn nothing from watching. All it comes from your own experience and putting what you saw in practice which never happens cause Val doesnt play in crunch moments.

And please don't make Hayes like he is some kind of defensive god. He had good defensive games against Grizzs and a couple more but he struggles too. Last game against Hawks last quarter he was terrible on Horford. Horford in that quarter scored 10 points (part of the blame goes on Amir too). If Val would have been this bad at defending Horford in the quarters before he would have dropped close to 40 on us.

Val suck on help defense and is slow on pick and roll but individual defense is pretty good actually.

May be YOU learn nothing from watching, but a lot of players do.

Chuck Hayes lacks length, but his positional defense is awesome. He's also very good at just making whoever he's guarding "uncomfortable".

[UnderdogRaptors]

"Development time is over" - Dwane Casey

[cruwinas]

I hate it when Casey reacts to what the opponent is doing instead of letting the opponent adjust to what he's doing.

When the opponent goes small, Casey goes small. If the opponent is playing big, Casey goes big.

I'd like to see Casey one of these days say, f#@k it, I know you're playing small, but I'm going to put Val on the court and crush you inside on every offensive possession until you put a big out there that can match him. But it doesn't happen.

Exactly. I live in Chicago and remember well how Bulls got their six rings. Phil Jackson was crushing other teams because he used his advantages. Casey annoys me greatly sometimes. He should act as a conductor of an orchestra and not like a train machinist.

[kayliecee]

Defense earns mins with Casey. Especially at that position. He's developing JV by putting a ladder in front of him and asking him to climb it. That is not a bad thing.

Especially for a big.

Further, Chuck Hayes has been awesome in the 4th. Awesome. Do you not think JV is learning something from watching him?

No you learn nothing from watching. All it comes from your own experience and putting what you saw in practice which never happens cause Val doesnt play in crunch moments.

And please don't make Hayes like he is some kind of defensive god. He had good defensive games against Grizzs and a couple more but he struggles too. Last game against Hawks last quarter he was terrible on Horford. Horford in that quarter scored 10 points (part of the blame goes on Amir too). If Val would have been this bad at defending Horford in the quarters before he would have dropped close to 40 on us.

Val suck on help defense and is slow on pick and roll but individual defense is pretty good actually.

May be YOU learn nothing from watching, but a lot of players do.

Chuck Hayes lacks length, but his positional defense is awesome. He's also very good at just making whoever he's guarding "uncomfortable".

I agree, and I would add, who cares about JV's individual defense. Basketball is not one-on-one, it's five-on-five. Andrea Bargnani was great one-on-one.

Oh, and I can't believe someone said you learn "nothing" from watching. I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

[kayliecee]

Lowe is echoing the things that some posters have been saying for weeks.

The tough shots that we're making right now are made at a lower percentage in the playoffs when an emphasis is placed on defense. Anytime you have an offensive weapon that can be effective in a playoff setting, you need him on the court in crunch time.

Yeah, but just because "some posters" say stuff doesn't mean it's smart. We have four and a half MONTHS till the regular season is over. So, if you're suggesting that there's no time, we have to start preparing JV now, well, that sounds like panic to me.

[mrdressup]

The guy needs to sit in the fourth until he's reliable defensively. Who wouldn't rather see Amir and James Johnson out there in the crunch (on both ends of the floor)? I know I would. It's not even close right now. He can't hold down the fort because he can't defend the perimeter worth a lick, he's slow getting back, his defensive (contested) rebounding is lacking and he's nowhere near the rim protector we need against mobile guards...on top of that he still fouls shooters by jumping forward into them. It's not like we' d be counting on him in the payoffs either; he's going to have to prove something when he does play.

Part of the reason we' ve been so good in the fourth is because we make it a point to go with our best. You can't have your cake and eat it too when you are trying to establish winning and resiliency at the end of games. When you do get there you don't immediately start giving that away to prepare for winning later.

Beyond that I see no point in blowing our current team's day in the Sun by chasing pipe dreams of possible futures with teams whose future personnel or chemistry we can't even begin to imagine. It might never be as good as it is now in JVs time here. If he's so good that it forces you to play him more you do it, but that has not happened in my estimation. Heck, until very recently I thought he was getting too much time based on some of the garbage play he was giving us.

I half think the pundits are writing the stuff they know the fans will gobble up when I see these opinions. We have coaches that are doing a brilliant job to fret about this. I certainly hope they never start getting their cues from fans (we' d be tanked and tanking again if they did).

[AkelaLoneWolf]

No you learn nothing from watching. All it comes from your own experience and putting what you saw in practice which never happens cause Val doesnt play in crunch moments.

And please don't make Hayes like he is some kind of defensive god. He had good defensive games against Grizzs and a couple more but he struggles too. Last game against Hawks last quarter he was terrible on Horford. Horford in that quarter scored 10 points (part of the blame goes on Amir too). If Val would have been this bad at defending Horford in the quarters before he would have dropped close to 40 on us.

Val suck on help defense and is slow on pick and roll but individual defense is pretty good actually.

May be YOU learn nothing from watching, but a lot of players do.

Chuck Hayes lacks length, but his positional defense is awesome. He's also very good at just making whoever he's guarding "uncomfortable".

I agree, and I would add, who cares about JV's individual defense. Basketball is not one-on-one, it's five-on-five. Andrea Bargnani was great one-on-one.

Oh, and I can't believe someone said you learn "nothing" from watching. I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

lol so u don't think individual defense is important and u r calling out other posters?
I agree that his help defense could use some work; it ain't gonna get better with him being benched; active better than passive learning and if jv isn't costing u games (i've yet to hear a substantive argument from a poster on this) then keep him in and let him learn.

[Darknemo2000]

No you learn nothing from watching. All it comes from your own experience and putting what you saw in practice which never happens cause Val doesnt play in crunch moments.

And please don't make Hayes like he is some kind of defensive god. He had good defensive games against Grizzs and a couple more but he struggles too. Last game against Hawks last quarter he was terrible on Horford. Horford in that quarter scored 10 points (part of the blame goes on Amir too). If Val would have been this bad at defending Horford in the quarters before he would have dropped close to 40 on us.

Val suck on help defense and is slow on pick and roll but individual defense is pretty good actually.

May be YOU learn nothing from watching, but a lot of players do.

Chuck Hayes lacks length, but his positional defense is awesome. He's also very good at just making whoever he's guarding "uncomfortable".

I agree, and I would add, who cares about JV's individual defense. Basketball is not one-on-one, it's five-on-five. Andrea Bargnani was great one-on-one.

Oh, and I can't believe someone said you learn "nothing" from watching. I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

Well, all your "knowledge" goes away whenever you come on the court. I've seen a lot of great, potential youth sitting on benches on real good teams, sitting way too much "learning by watching" but when they come on court all their knowledge is gone, they run lost even though they have been taking part in training of much better teams.

So yeah, I hold the position that one game played in NBDL in many cases is worth more than 50 games watched on NBA. There is a limit of what you can learn strictly from watching. That is why I also believe Bruno should go and play in NBDL if we cannot afford giving him minutes here.

I think Kanter would have been better if he didn't spend most of that year training and "leraning from wtaching" and would have actually played in NCAA.

And individual defense is important as thats the base you step up to help defense, But if he doesn't play that much with the team how quickly that defense will be learned?

Also his help defense was better in the last 2 games. Don't know if its a fluke or actual progression or just better match-up....

[cammac]

I am extremely happy we are 13 & 2 and Casey deserves credit but on the other side he is extremely stubborn.
I will just use the last game against Atlanta where Jonas sat the final quarter. Horford got 8 points and 5 rebounds & 1 block . In the rest of the game when they played against each other Jonas had 11 Pts, 1 block and 6 rebounds while Horford had 13 Pts. 1 Block and 3 rebounds.
So not having Jonas playing caused a deficit. The players who replaced Jonas were eaten up by Horford.

That was a obvious mistake by Casey.
Again we won but that isn't the point.

[yucatan87]

It's amazing how many people here who understand and appreciate the Spurs effectively tanking select regular season games by resting players in the name of April/May/June can't wrap their minds around this one. It's the same damn thing.

[OvertimeNO]

It's amazing how many people here who understand and appreciate the Spurs effectively tanking select regular season games by resting players in the name of April/May/June can't wrap their minds around this one. It's the same damn thing.

The Spurs have a core of veterans who have won four championships over a decade plus together.

The current Raptors core have been an over .500 team for exactly one season and have seen a single playoff series.

In what universe are they in the exact same situation?

[m83588333]

It's amazing how many people here who understand and appreciate the Spurs effectively tanking select regular season games by resting players in the name of April/May/June can't wrap their minds around this one. It's the same damn thing.

Its not tanking, its testing players in situations to sink or swim. Frustrated that the Raptors will need to decide on extensions for two players but neither are really sinking our swimming.

[kayliecee]

May be YOU learn nothing from watching, but a lot of players do.

Chuck Hayes lacks length, but his positional defense is awesome. He's also very good at just making whoever he's guarding "uncomfortable".

I agree, and I would add, who cares about JV's individual defense. Basketball is not one-on-one, it's five-on-five. Andrea Bargnani was great one-on-one.

Oh, and I can't believe someone said you learn "nothing" from watching. I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

lol so u don't think individual defense is important and u r calling out other posters?
I agree that his help defense could use some work; it ain't gonna get better with him being benched; active better than passive learning and if jv isn't costing u games (i've yet to hear a substantive argument from a poster on this) then keep him in and let him learn.

In the defensive scheme the Raptors play, individual defense is not enough. And yes, benching a young player for missing his assignment does work. Leaving him in and saying, "Don't worry about it, Jonas." will get you Andrea Bargnani II.

[kayliecee]

May be YOU learn nothing from watching, but a lot of players do.

Chuck Hayes lacks length, but his positional defense is awesome. He's also very good at just making whoever he's guarding "uncomfortable".

I agree, and I would add, who cares about JV's individual defense. Basketball is not one-on-one, it's five-on-five. Andrea Bargnani was great one-on-one.

Oh, and I can't believe someone said you learn "nothing" from watching. I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

Well, all your "knowledge" goes away whenever you come on the court. I've seen a lot of great, potential youth sitting on benches on real good teams, sitting way too much "learning by watching" but when they come on court all their knowledge is gone, they run lost even though they have been taking part in training of much better teams.

So yeah, I hold the position that one game played in NBDL in many cases is worth more than 50 games watched on NBA. There is a limit of what you can learn strictly from watching. That is why I also believe Bruno should go and play in NBDL if we cannot afford giving him minutes here.

I think Kanter would have been better if he didn't spend most of that year training and "leraning from wtaching" and would have actually played in NCAA.

And individual defense is important as thats the base you step up to help defense, But if he doesn't play that much with the team how quickly that defense will be learned?

Also his help defense was better in the last 2 games. Don't know if its a fluke or actual progression or just better match-up....

So, you're admitting you do learn from watching, but there's a limit to how much you learn, which is true.

[cammac]

Casey is doing a fine job developing these guys. Let's let JV earn his minutes in the 4th. He can get there, but needs to play better defensively.

Before you guys annoint Zach Lowe and his girlfriend (Koreen) the coach of the Raptors, take a look at how many of our games have been won in the 4th quarter....often with strong defense and the helter skelter opportunities on offense that come from it.

Winning is development for JV as well, even if he's winning from the bench.

Stop with this **** of earning minutes. Just stop. He had 27 pts and 12 rebounds in a game against Suns. If that doesnt earn you some minutes in the 4th then what does? He certainly played better than others of the starters and yet ended up rotting on the bench.

So stop this bull excuse "Earn the minutes". Its not about Earning its about the mental block of Casey. In the end it will bite Raptors in the ass as playoffs contribution from him wont be reliable at all specially in late games as he isnt used to play any minutes come the 4th doesnt matter if its matchup or how he plays good or bad he always sits.

Defense earns mins with Casey. Especially at that position. He's developing JV by putting a ladder in front of him and asking him to climb it. That is not a bad thing.

Especially for a big.

Further, Chuck Hayes has been awesome in the 4th. Awesome. Do you not think JV is learning something from watching him?

Can you tell me one game that Chuck Hayes has been a major component of a Victory???
Frankly I can't at best he has been neutral and most nights a negative.

[Jadoogar]

Stop with this **** of earning minutes. Just stop. He had 27 pts and 12 rebounds in a game against Suns. If that doesnt earn you some minutes in the 4th then what does? He certainly played better than others of the starters and yet ended up rotting on the bench.

So stop this bull excuse "Earn the minutes". Its not about Earning its about the mental block of Casey. In the end it will bite Raptors in the ass as playoffs contribution from him wont be reliable at all specially in late games as he isnt used to play any minutes come the 4th doesnt matter if its matchup or how he plays good or bad he always sits.

Defense earns mins with Casey. Especially at that position. He's developing JV by putting a ladder in front of him and asking him to climb it. That is not a bad thing.

Especially for a big.

Further, Chuck Hayes has been awesome in the 4th. Awesome. Do you not think JV is learning something from watching him?

Can you tell me one game that Chuck Hayes has been a major component of a Victory???
Frankly I can't at best he has been neutral and most nights a negative.

Memphis? He shut down Gasol when all of our other bigs were getting lit up. I agree about playing Val more in the fourth but you can't use the Suns or Grizzlies games as examples because Casey clearly made the right call here. Hayes was instrumental in stopping Gasol and Zbo while going small helped defend the 3point line againgst a scorching Suns team

[thunderforce]

You guys realize that JV is in the last year of his deal and he could walk after this year . It is pretty obvious Casey does not trust him at all . Question , if this were you would you stay ? We are not the only good team out there .

[Hero]

You guys realize that JV is in the last year of his deal and he could walk after this year . It is pretty obvious Casey does not trust him at all . Question , if this were you would you stay ? We are not the only good team out there .

No he can't.