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Hero wrote:thunderforce wrote:You guys realize that JV is in the last year of his deal and he could walk after this year . It is pretty obvious Casey does not trust him at all . Question , if this were you would you stay ? We are not the only good team out there .
No he can't.
thunderforce wrote:You guys realize that JV is in the last year of his deal and he could walk after this year . It is pretty obvious Casey does not trust him at all . Question , if this were you would you stay ? We are not the only good team out there .
thunderforce wrote:Hero wrote:thunderforce wrote:You guys realize that JV is in the last year of his deal and he could walk after this year . It is pretty obvious Casey does not trust him at all . Question , if this were you would you stay ? We are not the only good team out there .
No he can't.
What is the minimum he can sign for ? 1 year , 2 years ?
mrdressup wrote:The guy needs to sit in the fourth until he's reliable defensively. Who wouldn't rather see Amir and James Johnson out there in the crunch (on both ends of the floor)? I know I would. It's not even close right now. He can't hold down the fort because he can't defend the perimeter worth a lick, he's slow getting back, his defensive (contested) rebounding is lacking and he's nowhere near the rim protector we need against mobile guards...on top of that he still fouls shooters by jumping forward into them.
Jadoogar wrote:cammac wrote:cram wrote:
Defense earns mins with Casey. Especially at that position. He's developing JV by putting a ladder in front of him and asking him to climb it. That is not a bad thing.
Especially for a big.
Further, Chuck Hayes has been awesome in the 4th. Awesome. Do you not think JV is learning something from watching him?
Can you tell me one game that Chuck Hayes has been a major component of a Victory???
Frankly I can't at best he has been neutral and most nights a negative.
Memphis? He shut down Gasol when all of our other bigs were getting lit up. I agree about playing Val more in the fourth but you can't use the Suns or Grizzlies games as examples because Casey clearly made the right call here. Hayes was instrumental in stopping Gasol and Zbo while going small helped defend the 3point line againgst a scorching Suns team
ATLTimekeeper wrote:mrdressup wrote:The guy needs to sit in the fourth until he's reliable defensively. Who wouldn't rather see Amir and James Johnson out there in the crunch (on both ends of the floor)? I know I would. It's not even close right now. He can't hold down the fort because he can't defend the perimeter worth a lick, he's slow getting back, his defensive (contested) rebounding is lacking and he's nowhere near the rim protector we need against mobile guards...on top of that he still fouls shooters by jumping forward into them.
Did you just parrot that Tim Chisholm article point by point?
I'm not going to argue that he's as reliable defensively as Amir or James or Chuck. Those guys are the best defenders on our team, but... if you look at our starters he doesn't come off too badly.
Opponent O Rating while on the floor.
Ross 107.4
Lowry 106.7
Valanciunas 105.6
DeRozan 104.8
Amir 103.4
If you consider the on court/off court defensive difference, it's:
Lowry -11.9
Ross -9.3
DeMar -5.8
JV - 4.8
Amir -.3
And that's without getting to play a lot of those 4th quarter minutes where the team tends to pick up their intensity on defense.
OvertimeNO wrote:I can understand both sides of the argument. What I disagree with is the notion that we can "afford" anything. I'm as happy with the 13-2 start as any, and I'm fairly confident that the team can adapt for the long term without giving up too much, but I'm also wary of complacency. It's a long season and anything can happen.
Scarface844 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/537994576645349376[/tweet]
Korr wrote:OvertimeNO wrote:I can understand both sides of the argument. What I disagree with is the notion that we can "afford" anything. I'm as happy with the 13-2 start as any, and I'm fairly confident that the team can adapt for the long term without giving up too much, but I'm also wary of complacency. It's a long season and anything can happen.
We can "afford" to lose 1-2 games putting JV in the 4Q, but that crunch time experience might win us a playoff game in 2015.
Putting in JV in the 4th =/= being complacent.
cammac wrote:cram wrote:Darknemo2000 wrote:
Stop with this **** of earning minutes. Just stop. He had 27 pts and 12 rebounds in a game against Suns. If that doesnt earn you some minutes in the 4th then what does? He certainly played better than others of the starters and yet ended up rotting on the bench.
So stop this bull excuse "Earn the minutes". Its not about Earning its about the mental block of Casey. In the end it will bite Raptors in the ass as playoffs contribution from him wont be reliable at all specially in late games as he isnt used to play any minutes come the 4th doesnt matter if its matchup or how he plays good or bad he always sits.
Defense earns mins with Casey. Especially at that position. He's developing JV by putting a ladder in front of him and asking him to climb it. That is not a bad thing.
Especially for a big.
Further, Chuck Hayes has been awesome in the 4th. Awesome. Do you not think JV is learning something from watching him?
Can you tell me one game that Chuck Hayes has been a major component of a Victory???
Frankly I can't at best he has been neutral and most nights a negative.
vini_vidi_vici wrote:ATLTimekeeper wrote:Did you just parrot that Tim Chisholm article point by point?
I'm not going to argue that he's as reliable defensively as Amir or James or Chuck. Those guys are the best defenders on our team, but... if you look at our starters he doesn't come off too badly.
Opponent O Rating while on the floor.
Ross 107.4
Lowry 106.7
Valanciunas 105.6
DeRozan 104.8
Amir 103.4
If you consider the on court/off court defensive difference, it's:
Lowry -11.9
Ross -9.3
DeMar -5.8
JV - 4.8
Amir -.3
And that's without getting to play a lot of those 4th quarter minutes where the team tends to pick up their intensity on defense.
Where are you getting these #s from ATL??
via NBA.com, 4th Qs...
KL 102.9
DD 92.2
TR 85.6
AJ 95.7
JV 108.4
On vs Off differential...
KL +16.3
DD -7
TR -15.2
AJ +.6
JV +16
FWIW the 4 highest 4th Q mins are LW/GV/PP/JJ, and they are the only ones with over 100+ total mins (in fairness KL/DD are in the 90s).
vini_vidi_vici wrote:Did you guys know JV in the 4th is allowing OPPs to shoot 60%, 10.9 FG% higher than their avg.
Or that in general hes allowing OPPs to shoot 1.1 FG% higher than their avg.
This isnt some indictment on JV, again I know alot of you are JV fans first, Raps fans second. Hes going to be great, but everyone is hyper focused on him. Youll note theres literally no outcry for Amir to get more 4th Q mins, and hes only got 7 more total mins than JV. I dont see the concern, bank as many wins as you can, mins =/= development. Again theres 25 Cs/C-Fs that have gotten what JV has in history at age 22 (re: mins/USG).
Jadoogar wrote:
Memphis? He shut down Gasol when all of our other bigs were getting lit up.
ATLTimekeeper wrote:vini_vidi_vici wrote:Did you guys know JV in the 4th is allowing OPPs to shoot 60%, 10.9 FG% higher than their avg.
Or that in general hes allowing OPPs to shoot 1.1 FG% higher than their avg.
This isnt some indictment on JV, again I know alot of you are JV fans first, Raps fans second. Hes going to be great, but everyone is hyper focused on him. Youll note theres literally no outcry for Amir to get more 4th Q mins, and hes only got 7 more total mins than JV. I dont see the concern, bank as many wins as you can, mins =/= development. Again theres 25 Cs/C-Fs that have gotten what JV has in history at age 22 (re: mins/USG).
At 2.5FGA in 4 games, you're literally talking about 10 shots. I don't think most see it as a concern, but it's a good discussion point, especially when brought up by the best basketball writer in the game.
And for the record, Amir should be getting more 4th quarter minutes. I think a lot of people assume it's because they're trying to spare his ankles. The debate here is just based off Zach Lowe's premise that it'll be a good idea to prepare JV for the playoffs by playing him more key minutes.
Darknemo2000 wrote:Jadoogar wrote:
Memphis? He shut down Gasol when all of our other bigs were getting lit up.
Please explain "shut down" because Gasol scored 6 (and missed two FT's which means he could have added 2 more) points on us that quarter on 50% shooting (he was held to 50% shooting all other quarters as well). Hayes made Gasol uncomfortable and pushed out of his zone but no way he shut him down, but again maybe you and I unedrstand shutting down differently. For me shutting down means locking the player up so that he doesnt score or scores at a very very low percentage.
Thus for me it doesn't sound like Gasol was locked down. In other three quarters Gasol had 16 points which is about 5.3 points per quarter, bit less than he had against us in the 4th...
OvertimeNO wrote:Korr wrote:OvertimeNO wrote:I can understand both sides of the argument. What I disagree with is the notion that we can "afford" anything. I'm as happy with the 13-2 start as any, and I'm fairly confident that the team can adapt for the long term without giving up too much, but I'm also wary of complacency. It's a long season and anything can happen.
We can "afford" to lose 1-2 games putting JV in the 4Q, but that crunch time experience might win us a playoff game in 2015.
Putting in JV in the 4th =/= being complacent.
Putting JV in the fourth isn't complacency. Thinking, after only a single month of play, that any game can be taken for granted, is.
Hero wrote:Darknemo2000 wrote:Jadoogar wrote:
Memphis? He shut down Gasol when all of our other bigs were getting lit up.
Please explain "shut down" because Gasol scored 6 (and missed two FT's which means he could have added 2 more) points on us that quarter on 50% shooting (he was held to 50% shooting all other quarters as well). Hayes made Gasol uncomfortable and pushed out of his zone but no way he shut him down, but again maybe you and I unedrstand shutting down differently. For me shutting down means locking the player up so that he doesnt score or scores at a very very low percentage.
Thus for me it doesn't sound like Gasol was locked down. In other three quarters Gasol had 16 points which is about 5.3 points per quarter, bit less than he had against us in the 4th...
Looking at the stats from the Memphis game, JV didn't seem to do well defensively.
JV allowed 8/13 FGs
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202685/t ... GORY&dir=1
Chuck Hayes 2/5
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/101236/t ... 1610612763
2Pat 3/11
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202335/t ... 1610612763