I feel this is the year to trade Rondo

[Captain_Caveman]

I guess the debate is over. Danny has let the rest of league know that Rondo will not be traded.

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/11/19/boston ... ajon-rondo


To quote one of my favorite posters...... WTF lock this.

Ainge is still denying that he is going to trade Toine... the first time.

[sam_I_am]

I guess the debate is over. Danny has let the rest of league know that Rondo will not be traded.

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/11/19/boston ... ajon-rondo


To quote one of my favorite posters...... WTF lock this.

Ainge is still denying that he is going to trade Toine... the first time.

Danny was pretty vocal about how little he liked Antoine's game and traded him before he ever played a regular season game for Ainge. And thus did Danny get a reputations as a snake.... despite 11 years since of being a straight shooter.

[Ed Pinkney]

I have been a pretty consistent Rondo supporter but even I am starting to get pretty fed up with this dead man walking routine he has been showing us a little too often this year.

If Ainge does move him I would prefer it was for an established player.

[Captain_Caveman]

I guess the debate is over. Danny has let the rest of league know that Rondo will not be traded.

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/11/19/boston ... ajon-rondo


To quote one of my favorite posters...... WTF lock this.

Ainge is still denying that he is going to trade Toine... the first time.

Danny was pretty vocal about how little he liked Antoine's game and traded him before he ever played a regular season game for Ainge. And thus did Danny get a reputations as a snake.... despite 11 years since of being a straight shooter.

He said things about Toine as an announcer, but the point is that Ainge as GM said repeatedly that there was no trade, all the way up until he traded him. As he has done with every other trade. Standard operating procedure with anyone, but Ainge is pretty next level with it.

There is zero reason to take anything he says at face value, even secondhand as in this case. Be serious... Ainge would have traded Rondo like 5,000 times in the last 6 years if he could have ever gotten fair value for him. If dude could get a top 10 pick in next year's draft for Rondo, he'd be driving him to Logan right now.

[GuyClinch]

Ainge isn't going to win with a Rondo trade- so he doesn't want to do it. I think sign and trade is the likely outcome here. Rondo will want Max. Ainge will have second thoughts about paying him max. He will get traded to a team that will..

[humblebum]

The only possible outcomes: some team makes a superstar trade offer for Rondo's services (not going to happen), he signs at a number Ainge is comfortable with (most likely) or he's dealt in a sign and trade. Almost zero chance he's traded this year.

The scoop on Rondo's game is the same as it's ever been. Not big enough or good enough as a shooter OR scorer to be that night to night consistent presence that you want from a true max player. He's got some of the most ridiculous visionary mind bending moves and passes, he's a great competitor, he has just a fantastic nose for the ball. But at the end of the day he's not GREAT at stopping his man from scoring and he's subpar for his position in terms of being able to SCORE on command.

I will say that my preference is that he's kept at something akin to Tony Parker money while the Celtics make enough space to add a legitimate center to protect the rim. Then you're just going to have to hope the Celtics can turn James Young into something special and Smart/Bradley will continue to improve.

I could just as easily see the Celtics turning this thing around against the creampuffs of the East and making a playoff run as I could see Ainge move on from Green and play the draft and free agency. Either that or we're hoping on a Rondo-Green-Hibbert trio to make noise for the next few years.

At least a little bit worried about this organizations short term prospects for winning a championship. But it's a decent brand of basketball outside of the pains it causes me to watch Sullinger and Olynyk try to defend the paint or pick and rolls.

[sam_I_am]

The only possible outcomes: some team makes a superstar trade offer for Rondo's services (not going to happen), he signs at a number Ainge is comfortable with (most likely) or he's dealt in a sign and trade. Almost zero chance he's traded this year.

The scoop on Rondo's game is the same as it's ever been. Not big enough or good enough as a shooter OR scorer to be that night to night consistent presence that you want from a true max player. He's got some of the most ridiculous visionary mind bending moves and passes, he's a great competitor, he has just a fantastic nose for the ball. But at the end of the day he's not GREAT at stopping his man from scoring and he's subpar for his position in terms of being able to SCORE on command.

I will say that my preference is that he's kept at something akin to Tony Parker money while the Celtics make enough space to add a legitimate center to protect the rim. Then you're just going to have to hope the Celtics can turn James Young into something special and Smart/Bradley will continue to improve.

I could just as easily see the Celtics turning this thing around against the creampuffs of the East and making a playoff run as I could see Ainge move on from Green and play the draft and free agency. Either that or we're hoping on a Rondo-Green-Hibbert trio to make noise for the next few years.

At least a little bit worried about this organizations short term prospects for winning a championship. But it's a decent brand of basketball outside of the pains it causes me to watch Sullinger and Olynyk try to defend the paint or pick and rolls.

I think your summary of Rondo is spot on.

[GuyClinch]

I will say that my preference is that he's kept at something akin to Tony Parker money while the Celtics make enough space to add a legitimate center to protect the rim. Then you're just going to have to hope the Celtics can turn James Young into something special and Smart/Bradley will continue to improve.

Didn't the C's already have the option to sign him at TP money? I think that ship has sailed. Rondo will take the MAX from the C's or go to to another team simply to spite them. Book it.

[crosko42]

I will say that my preference is that he's kept at something akin to Tony Parker money while the Celtics make enough space to add a legitimate center to protect the rim. Then you're just going to have to hope the Celtics can turn James Young into something special and Smart/Bradley will continue to improve.

Didn't the C's already have the option to sign him at TP money? I think that ship has sailed. Rondo will take the MAX from the C's or go to to another team simply to spite them. Book it.

No, with the way extensions work in the new CBA the most he could sign for would be 3 years for 48 million starting at 12.9 million. Way less than he is worth on the open market.

Thats why the new CBA was/is a huge joke to me. It basically made it so that players are forced to go into FA and teams can't reliably keep their own guys after their first rookie contract extension (which has different rules).

[GuyClinch]

I don't want to be too confrontational here - I don't follow the financial aspect that closely. But doesn't Tony Parker make 12.5 million? So wouldn't 12.9 million be around his salary?

[StojkoVrankovic]

I don't want to be too confrontational here - I don't follow the financial aspect that closely. But doesn't Tony Parker make 12.5 million? So wouldn't 12.9 million be around his salary?

Yes

14-15: $12,500,000
15-16: $13,437,500
16-17: $14,445,313
17-18: $15,453,126

[Andrew McCeltic]

No, with the way extensions work in the new CBA the most he could sign for would be 3 years for 48 million starting at 12.9 million. Way less than he is worth on the open market.

Thats why the new CBA was/is a huge joke to me. It basically made it so that players are forced to go into FA and teams can't reliably keep their own guys after their first rookie contract extension (which has different rules).

Huh, didn't know that. So Rudy Gay was actually maxed by Sacramento- and wanted the security of a deal now.

I feel like reporting and awareness on the new CBA is a lot less competent than on the last one.

[humblebum]

I will say that my preference is that he's kept at something akin to Tony Parker money while the Celtics make enough space to add a legitimate center to protect the rim. Then you're just going to have to hope the Celtics can turn James Young into something special and Smart/Bradley will continue to improve.

Didn't the C's already have the option to sign him at TP money? I think that ship has sailed. Rondo will take the MAX from the C's or go to to another team simply to spite them. Book it.

Around TP money. I think that Ainge has had a "prove it to me" stance toward Rondo negotiations the whole way. He wants the player. The player has something to prove. Ainge wants the player to show him what he can do and depending on those results, then you go out and make an offer.

Rondo offers marketability, excitement and hopeful "contract year" production. When the offseason arrives you let the market set his value. If it rises above what you want to pay, let him walk. Draft and develop is a good enough fallback plan to building around Rondo PLUS if he decides he wants to get paid.

[GuyClinch]

Wants to see what he can do? Do you think anyone expects anything hugely different then his normal 10 points/6 rebounds/10 assist stuff?

[exculpatory]

Nope.

[humblebum]

Wants to see what he can do? Do you think anyone expects anything hugely different then his normal 10 points/6 rebounds/10 assist stuff?

It goes beyond statistics.

The reality is more complex. I believe Ainge doesn't truly feel Rondo is worth the max, but Rondo thinks he is and Ainge wants him to PROVE it, probably doubting he will all along, but nonetheless he's going to wait and see.

The hope for Rondo as a max player is him being the center of a culture/style of play change that Stevens can build a winning attack from. So far, there has been mixed results on this count, but part of that is being mitigated by the competition and Stevens own shortcomings as a coach.

Rondo has obviously also struggled in some regards, mostly in the 4th where he's trying to do too much. Stevens needs to challenge Rondo to keep it simple in the 4th or sit.

Still doesn't make sense to trade Rondo. No one will give up much at this point given his play and FA status. So it continues to make more sense for Ainge to let this thing play out in Free Agency. Rondo is the one who is refusing to sign to team friendly contract. So maybe he'll struggle enough for him to be humbled and if not he can be pawned off for spare parts or simply allowed to walk for cap space.

But Stevens not addressing the Rondo situation is concerning in the longer-term. Want to see that the young coach has backbone.

[soxfan2003]

Wants to see what he can do? Do you think anyone expects anything hugely different then his normal 10 points/6 rebounds/10 assist stuff?

It goes beyond statistics.

The reality is more complex. I believe Ainge doesn't truly feel Rondo is worth the max, but Rondo thinks he is and Ainge wants him to PROVE it, probably doubting he will all along, but nonetheless he's going to wait and see.

The hope for Rondo as a max player is him being the center of a culture/style of play change that Stevens can build a winning attack from. So far, there has been mixed results on this count, but part of that is being mitigated by the competition and Stevens own shortcomings as a coach.

Rondo has obviously also struggled in some regards, mostly in the 4th where he's trying to do too much. Stevens needs to challenge Rondo to keep it simple in the 4th or sit.

Still doesn't make sense to trade Rondo. No one will give up much at this point given his play and FA status. So it continues to make more sense for Ainge to let this thing play out in Free Agency. Rondo is the one who is refusing to sign to team friendly contract. So maybe he'll struggle enough for him to be humbled and if not he can be pawned off for spare parts or simply allowed to walk for cap space.

But Stevens not addressing the Rondo situation is concerning in the longer-term. Want to see that the young coach has backbone.

The problem as I see it is that even established Rivers with a championship under his belt ultimately in the first half of 2012/2013 let Rondo do whatever he really wanted. Phil Jackson often let Kobe shoot too much... The NBA is a star dominated league and as long as Rondo is playing for a contract, I suspect it will be somewhat hard for Stevens to get him to play exactly like he would want.

Realistically, a Rondo trade right now probably should not be contemplated until January at the earliest. I suspect if Rondo is traded this year, it is within 2 weeks of the trading deadline. I would bet against a trade happening right now before FA.

[GuyClinch]

Still doesn't make sense to trade Rondo. No one will give up much at this point given his play and FA status. So it continues to make more sense for Ainge to let this thing play out in Free Agency. Rondo is the one who is refusing to sign to team friendly contract. So maybe he'll struggle enough for him to be humbled and if not he can be pawned off for spare parts or simply allowed to walk for cap space.

I agree this is the likely scenario. I don't think he will get traded before FA - or even at FA. The only issue is I don't really see it as a best case scenario that Rondo plays like crap and we get him for cheap. I know a lot of fans would like that..

But rookies are almost always better deals then third contract players. If Rondo continues to play how he normally does the thing to do is let him walk. Just because a guy is our best player - that doesn't mean you should always hold onto him. You have to look at the value - and look at the availability of replacement players. The Patriots do very well with this. They had no issues letting Talib walks because they could get Revis. They had no issue letting Welker go because they had Edelman.

People talk about TP money - maybe Rondo is 'worth' that but I think Parker's "generic' blend of basketball ability is much easier to blend into a complete team - then Rondo's flawed old school pass-first/scared shoot type of game in today's NBA.

[Tenbomber]

At this point, they should let Rondo ride the bench....

Then when he starts to complain, find someone who will take him off of our hands...

You let him play and he continues to disappoint, it just becomes harder to move him IMO...

The sooner he is traded, the better....The notion that we will get any real value for him has probably sailed long ago?

Now, every missed free throw, every bungled possession, and every close loss just decreases his value some more...

And it absolutely does nothing for a young team's confidence to lose in this way either....

Would be better for them to lose games all on their own....at least that way they know they need to improve their skills individually...

I don't know?

I just think his situation with this team is hopeless....he dosen't seem to fit the style of play and he seems unable to fit in with the talent level around him...

And his crunch time leadership seems to tell it all...

I've just lost it!...... I just want to scream!

[soxfan2003]

At this point, they should let Rondo ride the bench....

Then when he starts to complain, find someone who will take him off of our hands...

You let him play and he continues to disappoint, it just becomes harder to move him IMO...

The sooner he is traded, the better....The notion that we will get any real value for him has probably sailed long ago?

Now, every missed free throw, every bungled possession, and every close loss just decreases his value some more...

And it absolutely does nothing for a young team's confidence to lose in this way either....

Would be better for them to lose games all on their own....at least that way they know they need to improve their skills individually...

I don't know?

I just think his situation with this team is hopeless....he dosen't seem to fit the style of play and he seems unable to fit in with the talent level around him...

And his crunch time leadership seems to tell it all...

I've just lost it!...... I just want to scream!

I see no issue with playing Rondo 30-32 mpg since it is not like Pressey has enough talent to start in the NBA or even be an ideal backup on a contender. Smart getting 25 MPG is good enough for his rookie year.

Situation with the team is tough in the short term since the 2015 draft and FA class may not be that great. And I can't think of a KG like player on a bad team that can be had for a reasonable price.

That being said, it is hard for me right now to argue that Rondo is holding any player back from developing. He is a PG that passes the ball a lot.

December should be much better for the Celtics. In the off-season I thought a 4-10 record to start the season and only thought 5-9 was more likely after OKC injuries so this start has not been a surprise. The Celtics doing poorly in December would be a surprise to me at least.