I feel this is the year to trade Rondo

[GuyClinch]

Yeah lets not get carried away..Rondo is playing like Rondo. No reason to bench him. His play is very close to his historical level..

[Ed Pinkney]

A few quick hypotheticals.

Would you trade Rondo to the Sixers for Carter Williams and another asset?

Would you trade Rondo and Wallace to the Knicks for Stoudamire and a draft pick?

Would you trade Rondo for Jeff Teague?

Would you trade Rondo for Deron Williams?

Would you trade Rondo for Brandon Knight and Larry Sanders?

Would you trade Rondo for Drummond and Jennings?

[GuyClinch]

We will get a few picks with a S and T - or resign him. Don't look for players to come back IMHO. The Lebron deal was for a few #1s. Same deal if Ainge lets Rondo walk..

[ParticleMan]

at some point rondo is going to go on one of his patented stretches where he dazzles for a few weeks. i wouldn't be surprised if it happens in december or january. then we will start winning game after game (against lesser competition), all will look right in the C's green-tinted world, and folks start clamoring about how we're going to make the playoffs after all, that everything is coming together finally, rondo is a perfect fit for stevens' offense, he's worth the max, etc.

that's when ainge is going to try to move rondo.

[KGboss]

If I'm Ainge's I am Def listening to offers...but Rondo value is getting weaker every game this year. He's averaging almost a triple dub but his negatives far outweigh his stat line so far.

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[165bows]

I think in the end they sign him to something like 5/88. That's a deal starting at around $15.5M, and once the cap goes up in 2-3 years will be the same proportion of the cap as the current deal. It's also 7-8M more guaranteed money than any other team can offer since it includes the fifth year.

As long as they move Wallace/Turner, the 15.5 starting salary allows them to offer Hibbert or someone similar their max in FA.

I'm sure some people would consider that cap clogging but I would disagree. Almost half of the cap this year is being spent on a bench warmer, backup PF, and two backup shooting guards totaling around 29M.

[Pacino62]

A few quick hypotheticals.

Would you trade Rondo to the Sixers for Carter Williams and another asset?

Would you trade Rondo and Wallace to the Knicks for Stoudamire and a draft pick?

Would you trade Rondo for Jeff Teague?

Would you trade Rondo for Deron Williams?

Would you trade Rondo for Brandon Knight and Larry Sanders?

Would you trade Rondo for Drummond and Jennings?

To be clear...I don't want to trade Rondo and the ONLY part of his game that I'm down on is his FT shooting. Did anyone think he was going to average 17-20 PPG? I didn't. I was hoping for 12-14, which is where I think he will settle by seasons end. However, you asked the question, so I'll play along.

1.-No...unless the other asset is Noel, this years pick or Embiid. I'd look long and hard at McDaniels as well.
2.-No. Pick sucks.
3.-No...if Rondo had that roster, they would have a better record (IMO)
4.-God no.
5.-No. Two mediocre assets. Need at least one of them to be a great asset.
6.-I can pick up Rondo in Boston and have him in Detroit in about 14 hours...Detroit laughs...

[Slartibartfast]

Not that Dallas has anything I want, but Rondo's a great fit with them. Chandler/Wright as lob/roll 5s, Dirk as the stretch 4/crunchtime go-to guy, Parsons as the shooter/secondary creator. Ellis not so much, but they wouldn't be able to afford them both anyway.

[LarsV8]

A few quick hypotheticals.

Would you trade Rondo to the Sixers for Carter Williams and another asset?
Would you trade Rondo and Wallace to the Knicks for Stoudamire and a draft pick?
Would you trade Rondo for Jeff Teague?
Would you trade Rondo for Deron Williams?
Would you trade Rondo for Brandon Knight and Larry Sanders?
Would you trade Rondo for Drummond and Jennings?

I think these are way off base. No rebuilding teams are going to trade for a Rondo type player on an expiring contract. The only teams interested would be good teams with limited capspace, who think they can resign him.

1.) The Sixers have MCW on a rookie contract for a few more years and then control of him through RFA. They also have cap space for Rondo in the off season if they really wanted him. They would never do this, unless Rondo went to a third team and they got other long term assets.

2.) The Knicks seem pretty content on using their cap space to get a couple good players. Adding Rondo this season makes no difference except making their draft selection worse. They wont make the playoffs and it is counterproductive to take on Wallace.

3.) Teague is playing out of his mind and is on a bargain contract for three more years. The Hawks have cap space in the offseason, so I see no reason for them to move Teague, when they can keep him for cheap and use their cap space on another position of need, like center, this offseason.

4.) This is the only deal I see as a possibility. Brooklyn sucks and they would use this trade just to get out of Williams contract.

5.) The bucks are playing well for the first time in a long time and they have cap space. Makes no sense for them to move Sanders, who they love, for a guy they could just sign in the offseason if he was willing to play there.

6.) Detroit isn't giving up Drummond period. There is no realistic trade out there where they move a center with that much offseason.

The only teams that are realistic destinations for Rondo are Dallas and Houston, and then a few dark horses like New Orleans, Sacramento, Miami or Cleveland.

[Marvel]

A Rondo to Houston deal i'd be down with that. Isaiah Canaan would be my target, dude is going to be a player + fillers.

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[soxfan2003]

I think in the end they sign him to something like 5/88. That's a deal starting at around $15.5M, and once the cap goes up in 2-3 years will be the same proportion of the cap as the current deal. It's also 7-8M more guaranteed money than any other team can offer since it includes the fifth year.

As long as they move Wallace/Turner, the 15.5 starting salary allows them to offer Hibbert or someone similar their max in FA.

I'm sure some people would consider that cap clogging but I would disagree. Almost half of the cap this year is being spent on a bench warmer, backup PF, and two backup shooting guards totaling around 29M.

Your point about the Celtics spending 29 million on less than great value is true but it just shows that if you don't spend wisely, you do not win....Look at how wisely the Spurs have spent and even the Heat...and even the 2008 Celtics. If you are going to pay a player star money, you really have to have a high degree of confidence that player will be a star going forward.

I honestly think Ainge should be fired if he gives Rondo a 5 year deal for that type of money heading into his 30's. It would be one thing if the Celtics were in position to contend for a title the next 2 years but they really are not.

[exculpatory]

5/88 and Ainge should not be fired; rather, he should be publically castrated.

10 per year MAX.

[BRUNiNHO91]

Rondo is a very smart guy. I think he understands what a max player is and I think he knows that if he continues this way he's lucky if anybody gives Brandon Bass money. He's been really poor in a lot of important things and people are noticing. If free agency started tomorrow nobody would offer him more than 12 million.

[165bows]

I think in the end they sign him to something like 5/88. That's a deal starting at around $15.5M, and once the cap goes up in 2-3 years will be the same proportion of the cap as the current deal. It's also 7-8M more guaranteed money than any other team can offer since it includes the fifth year.

As long as they move Wallace/Turner, the 15.5 starting salary allows them to offer Hibbert or someone similar their max in FA.

I'm sure some people would consider that cap clogging but I would disagree. Almost half of the cap this year is being spent on a bench warmer, backup PF, and two backup shooting guards totaling around 29M.

Your point about the Celtics spending 29 million on less than great value is true but it just shows that if you don't spend wisely, you do not win....Look at how wisely the Spurs have spent and even the Heat...and even the 2008 Celtics. If you are going to pay a player star money, you really have to have a high degree of confidence that player will be a star going forward.

I honestly think Ainge should be fired if he gives Rondo a 5 year deal for that type of money heading into his 30's. It would be one thing if the Celtics were in position to contend for a title the next 2 years but they really are not.

The thng is an 18M a year salary in three years is likely to be equivalent to a 12M dollar deal now. So would I have that type of deal for Rondo if I thought I would get his career averages/level of play for the better portion of the deal? Yes, I would.

However judging whether Ainge should be fired for that type of deal on its own merits is seriously myopic. The league leading teams have a deal in that neighborhood that could very easily be replaced with something much cheaper. Toronto with Hayes and Fields, Memphis with Prince, GSW with David Lee.

So it is actually precisely the time to lock guys up to long term deals to have them look like bargains later. The key is picking the right vets to commit to. The alternative is to get in the bidding wars with ten other teams throwing $30M a year contracts at guys and hoping you pick the right guys at that time, because if not it is a lot more painful that way if you miss.

[return2glory]

A few quick hypotheticals.

Would you trade Rondo to the Sixers for Carter Williams and another asset?

Would you trade Rondo and Wallace to the Knicks for Stoudamire and a draft pick?

Would you trade Rondo for Jeff Teague?

Would you trade Rondo for Deron Williams?

Would you trade Rondo for Brandon Knight and Larry Sanders?

Would you trade Rondo for Drummond and Jennings?

I don't like the Knicks trade for us.
I would do Jeff Teague for Rondo in a minute but the Hawks won't.
There is no way the Pistons would part way with Drummond. I would do that trade every day.
I don't like the Nets trade for us.
I don't like the Bucks trade because I'm not too high on Sanders. He hadn't shown any improvement.
I would do the Sixers trade.

[soxfan2003]

I think in the end they sign him to something like 5/88. That's a deal starting at around $15.5M, and once the cap goes up in 2-3 years will be the same proportion of the cap as the current deal. It's also 7-8M more guaranteed money than any other team can offer since it includes the fifth year.

As long as they move Wallace/Turner, the 15.5 starting salary allows them to offer Hibbert or someone similar their max in FA.

I'm sure some people would consider that cap clogging but I would disagree. Almost half of the cap this year is being spent on a bench warmer, backup PF, and two backup shooting guards totaling around 29M.

Your point about the Celtics spending 29 million on less than great value is true but it just shows that if you don't spend wisely, you do not win....Look at how wisely the Spurs have spent and even the Heat...and even the 2008 Celtics. If you are going to pay a player star money, you really have to have a high degree of confidence that player will be a star going forward.

I honestly think Ainge should be fired if he gives Rondo a 5 year deal for that type of money heading into his 30's. It would be one thing if the Celtics were in position to contend for a title the next 2 years but they really are not.

The thng is an 18M a year salary in three years is likely to be equivalent to a 12M dollar deal now. So would I have that type of deal for Rondo if I thought I would get his career averages/level of play for the better portion of the deal? Yes, I would.

However judging whether Ainge should be fired for that type of deal on its own merits is seriously myopic. The league leading teams have a deal in that neighborhood that could very easily be replaced with something much cheaper. Toronto with Hayes and Fields, Memphis with Prince, GSW with David Lee.

So it is actually precisely the time to lock guys up to long term deals to have them look like bargains later. The key is picking the right vets to commit to. The alternative is to get in the bidding wars with ten other teams throwing $30M a year contracts at guys and hoping you pick the right guys at that time, because if not it is a lot more painful that way if you miss.

I know there are some PGs overpaid but look at what Lowry just signed for. And I doubt his agent was clueless that there would be a big jump in the cap in the future since even I was anticipating it. Same with Parker.

Excluding Rondo's rookie year and his get back into shape season last year, I estimate the chances of Rondo in a 5 year deal having the same level of play as his career up until now are less than 15%. It is just a terrible gamble with not nearly enough upside to make the downside risk..

Need to look at years 4 and 5 more then year 3 otherwise it really is short sighted thinking. And need to project further declines in Rondo's play compared to where he ends up after this season. And also figure in how it affects Marcus Smart who the Celtics have under a team friendly contract for 3 seasons after this one.

Given the 2015 FA class is bleak and Durant may sign a 1 year contract extension, Rondo on a 2 year extension even at the absolute max is probably better then 5 years 88 million. Basically in years 3-5, Celtics in present dollars paying significant more than they pay Jeff Green now with a damn good chance the performance is even less.

Personally speaking, I would just let him walk if I couldn't trade him for value or get him to accept a reasonable 2-3 year deal.

[165bows]

Your point about the Celtics spending 29 million on less than great value is true but it just shows that if you don't spend wisely, you do not win....Look at how wisely the Spurs have spent and even the Heat...and even the 2008 Celtics. If you are going to pay a player star money, you really have to have a high degree of confidence that player will be a star going forward.

I honestly think Ainge should be fired if he gives Rondo a 5 year deal for that type of money heading into his 30's. It would be one thing if the Celtics were in position to contend for a title the next 2 years but they really are not.

The thng is an 18M a year salary in three years is likely to be equivalent to a 12M dollar deal now. So would I have that type of deal for Rondo if I thought I would get his career averages/level of play for the better portion of the deal? Yes, I would.

However judging whether Ainge should be fired for that type of deal on its own merits is seriously myopic. The league leading teams have a deal in that neighborhood that could very easily be replaced with something much cheaper. Toronto with Hayes and Fields, Memphis with Prince, GSW with David Lee.

So it is actually precisely the time to lock guys up to long term deals to have them look like bargains later. The key is picking the right vets to commit to. The alternative is to get in the bidding wars with ten other teams throwing $30M a year contracts at guys and hoping you pick the right guys at that time, because if not it is a lot more painful that way if you miss.

I know there are some PGs overpaid but look at what Lowry just signed for. And I doubt his agent was clueless that there would be a big jump in the cap in the future since even I was anticipating it. Same with Parker.

Excluding Rondo's rookie year and his get back into shape season last year, I estimate the chances of Rondo in a 5 year deal having the same level of play as his career up until now are less than 15%. It is just a terrible gamble with not nearly enough upside to make the downside risk..

Need to look at years 4 and 5 more then year 3 otherwise it really is short sighted thinking. And need to project further declines in Rondo's play compared to where he ends up after this season. And also figure in how it affects Marcus Smart who the Celtics have under a team friendly contract for 3 seasons after this one.

Given the 2015 FA class is bleak and Durant may sign a 1 year contract extension, Rondo on a 2 year extension even at the absolute max is probably better then 5 years 88 million. Basically in years 3-5, Celtics in present dollars paying significant more than they pay Jeff Green now with a damn good chance the performance is even less.

Personally speaking, I would just let him walk if I couldn't trade him for value or get him to accept a reasonable 2-3 year deal.

Yes but you are pretty much missing my point. The Parker and Lowry deals are hometown discounts you don't get if you aren't a good team reaping the rewards of success and continuity.

Plenty of teams have succeeded despite overpaying what many have thought of as one of their top 1-2 guys, including GS and Memphis like I mentioned (with Lee and Gay) and Indiana with Danny Granger.

Otherwise it is very easy to be a lousy team with a few decent young guys and cap space no one wants. Pretty much all of Detroit, Milwaukee, Orlando, Utah and shortly Philly are in all this situation. Maybe one of those teams will hit the FA lottery but the majority won't.

[soxfan2003]

The thng is an 18M a year salary in three years is likely to be equivalent to a 12M dollar deal now. So would I have that type of deal for Rondo if I thought I would get his career averages/level of play for the better portion of the deal? Yes, I would.

However judging whether Ainge should be fired for that type of deal on its own merits is seriously myopic. The league leading teams have a deal in that neighborhood that could very easily be replaced with something much cheaper. Toronto with Hayes and Fields, Memphis with Prince, GSW with David Lee.

So it is actually precisely the time to lock guys up to long term deals to have them look like bargains later. The key is picking the right vets to commit to. The alternative is to get in the bidding wars with ten other teams throwing $30M a year contracts at guys and hoping you pick the right guys at that time, because if not it is a lot more painful that way if you miss.

I know there are some PGs overpaid but look at what Lowry just signed for. And I doubt his agent was clueless that there would be a big jump in the cap in the future since even I was anticipating it. Same with Parker.

Excluding Rondo's rookie year and his get back into shape season last year, I estimate the chances of Rondo in a 5 year deal having the same level of play as his career up until now are less than 15%. It is just a terrible gamble with not nearly enough upside to make the downside risk..

Need to look at years 4 and 5 more then year 3 otherwise it really is short sighted thinking. And need to project further declines in Rondo's play compared to where he ends up after this season. And also figure in how it affects Marcus Smart who the Celtics have under a team friendly contract for 3 seasons after this one.

Given the 2015 FA class is bleak and Durant may sign a 1 year contract extension, Rondo on a 2 year extension even at the absolute max is probably better then 5 years 88 million. Basically in years 3-5, Celtics in present dollars paying significant more than they pay Jeff Green now with a damn good chance the performance is even less.

Personally speaking, I would just let him walk if I couldn't trade him for value or get him to accept a reasonable 2-3 year deal.

Yes but you are pretty much missing my point. The Parker and Lowry deals are hometown discounts you don't get if you aren't a good team reaping the rewards of success and continuity.

Plenty of teams have succeeded despite overpaying what many have thought of as one of their top 1-2 guys, including GS and Memphis like I mentioned (with Lee and Gay) and Indiana with Danny Granger.

Otherwise it is very easy to be a lousy team with a few decent young guys and cap space no one wants. Pretty much all of Detroit, Milwaukee, Orlando, Utah and shortly Philly are in all this situation. Maybe one of those teams will hit the FA lottery but the majority won't.

The Celtics right now are a bad team. Not much can make them very attractive in the short term for a player that seriously wants to win a championship next season.

I follow Golden State the 2nd most and they were helped out by signing the young Curry to a team friendly deal.

I'd rather have the Celtics build through the draft and then via FA/trades.

I actually don't think Parker or Lowry signed at home town discounts. Given his age, Parker got a reasonable deal for the Spurs letting him sign a year early. He may have gotten more after this season but with a bad season or injury, he may have gotten less. Celtics rebuild was going to happen but I'd rather shorten it by having a bunch of draft picks.

Lowry shopped himself and I may be mistaken but I think Toronto put the most money out there. Miami was reportedly very interested but I don't think they were offering as much. Maybe some really bad team was offering a little bit more but I don't know about that.

Lowry could fall apart but given the choice between Lowry at 4 years 48 million starting this year and Rondo at 5 years 88 million starting after next season, it is a no brainer to me which player I would want the Celtics to gamble on. Parker wanted to sign with SA but I really don't think Lowry was that anxious to go back to Toronto even though it is a great city.

[165bows]

You are missing the point the Celtics don't get to choose between Rondo and Lowry, that is a totally irrelevant comparison. That option is not available to them.

[soxfan2003]

You are missing the point the Celtics don't get to choose between Rondo and Lowry, that is a totally irrelevant comparison. That option is not available to them.

You are absolutely right about Lowry not being available but the Celtics can choose between...

Rondo...
And a more generic PG who may be undervalued since he didn't have the luxury of playing with the Big 3 or simply because his career got off to a slow start.

And my larger point is...Ainge probably shouldn't be prioritizing signing anyone besides a good backup PG that is under the radar. I suspect Smart will deserve to start at PG starting next season. I am not expecting Smart to set the world on fire with his offense but just show enough ability given his tough defense that he deserves to start on a rebuilding team....starting in 2015/16

Even if the Celtics have no one worthwhile interested in signing with them, they can still use their cap space in other ways such as trades.