Is Wall Top 5 PG?

[ozthegandp]

at the rate wall keeps getting better yr after yr, he may well one day be the best of the bunch. but right now paul, curry, and westbrook are the clear leaders. followed by lowry. 5TH is based on what u value.

that being said if u asked me who i would want to start a team with it would be wall. he seems to be the guy nobody would have a problem playing with. plus he plays both sides well.

paul is great but getting older.

curry is great but delicate and likely to have a major injury at some point

westbrook great but selfish and has been injured alot lately.

rose looks like hes going the way of grant hill, vince carter, and tmac at best

parker still great but beginning his decline

irving not a defender, team leader, or pass first point. and seems to impact team chemistry negitively. his attitude will likely cost him the way kobe's cost him.

lowry is what he is not going to get much better. im not even sure he would play this way for anyone else

lillard. ??? havent really ever paid attention to him for some reason. so dont know



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[closg00]

It is just his lack of offensive efficiency that is holding him back. As a play-maker and passer I think he is top 5. If he can just score more efficiently his potential is great.

+1

[Gordo52]

Don't get wrong, I love Lowries game and he's a beast. But if I could have one PG from the East, for one game. I'm choosing Wall. I feel like he's an all around better pure PG and better defender. I wish he'd play better vs him head to head and it's definitely very close race between the two. Wall has just been balling at an unreal level as of late.

[CobraCommander]

The debate starts at either 3 or 4 as a point.

curry and Paul 1&2 respectively. And then you have 5 guys that can legitimately say they are in the top 5.point guards. Wall being one of that 5. Lillard, and Lowery being in that 5 with wall! Kyrie is not on the list of top 5 point guards.

The other list of points has to include Lebron at point forward which pushes Wall to number 4- with Lebron being 1, curry 2... Etc I say this because Lebron is the best facilitator in the league and runs the teams defense and offense. Hate him if you want- the man can ball- plus you notice when Kyrie is hot... He just plays ball within the system putting the team before his stats. I hate Lebron but as a Point he is a amazingly unselfish and talented.

For the 5 guys Wall lillard lowery Westbrook Parker all fighting for the next 2 or 3 spots.

Parker has the rings and game but you wouldn't say his defense is good or his shot amazing. You could also say he is a system guy that's older and less athletic than the other guys. We wil never know if Parker would be elite without Pop and Duncan - but he could care less im sure. He is a HOF player with rings- no one apart from Paul on the elite list is assured HOF and only he has rings (less Lebron)

Lillard plays like a mad man but will defer to his bigs and get others involved. He is a big game player! Cons- defense is suspect as hell- and sometimes gets in "fire first mode'.

Lowery - he is basically everyone's underdog and dark horse pick. It's like people say his name in the conversation so that they can sound like they can go get deep on basketball knowledge. People also say he doesn't get props cause he in Canada. Which is stupid because nobody traveling to away games to watch people play... So if you staying home.. Toronto is the same distance away as Miami, la or Cleveland- he is as close as your tv. His game is solid but would you really trade any of the other guys on this list for him? Really??? Is he a max guy... Come on ? Would you bet your job on it

Westbrook is just a beast- he is rose 2.0 - a demon that took human form. I am tempted to say he is a scoring guard and not a point/facilitator and thus shouldn't be on the list of points... Like Kyrie. Westbrook is on the list because unlike Kyrie, he can and does do it all on both ends of the floor. Westbrook is untraceable, unwatchable if you a okc fan sometimes because he refuses to be the sidekick but wow he can ball! The best attributes of Westbrook are also the worse attributes of Westbrook- and ultimately the reason why KD is going to opt to play with a pass first, second and third point guard like Wall. Westbrook looks around and says - I'm the best option on this play - regardless of the play/set/ time on clock.. When the best scorer on planet earth is calling for the ball.

wall is better than all of the other guys in some ways and marginally worse in others. His defense good - sometimes but the defensive sets we run sometimes makes the whole team look bad when we switching on picks so poorly. Wall appears to be coach able and hungry. His physical gifts are up there at the top. Wall is a true point guard facilitator. Wall may not be able to shoot but damn his scoring and assist Avg are elite level. And his team is winning. Leading a winning team matters in these rankings - or they should. He isn't perfect but he is the right guy for our team and I wouldn't trade him for anyone but possibly curry on that list--- Paul is older and the rest of the guys have strengths and weaknesses that don't give me any assurance that we would be better off with any of the other guys in the "top 5"


Kyrie is a scoring guard. He isn't a poor mans AI because AI scored and had more assist per game- many a year and won with cast of characters at least as bad as Cleveland last year. Kyrie is going to be all universe as a scoring two guard next to Lebron. This frees Kyrie up to worry about getting buckets- he is in the perfect spot now. Just get buckets ---- but he wouldn't make any of the teams better if he had to facilitate the offense and initiate the defense- Kyrie can score with anyone - shoot with anyone - and pass like... Kobe and Nick young- the Cavs couldnt get in the playoffs last year and d.waiters punching him in the face cause he can't get the ball. Waiters demanding the ball?!? What? Then this year he went 6 quarters without an assist to prove a point to Lebron after receiving criticism. Seems like they figured out the best way to use Kyrie now. Say what you want but it's smart to use a player to his strengths.


Go wiz!

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

The debate starts at either 3 or 4 as a point.

curry and Paul 1&2 respectively. And then you have 5 guys that can legitimately say they are in the top 5.point guards. Wall being one of that 5. Lillard, and Lowery being in that 5 with wall! Kyrie is not on the list of top 5 point guards.

The other list of points has to include Lebron at point forward which pushes Wall to number 4- with Lebron being 1, curry 2... Etc I say this because Lebron is the best facilitator in the league and runs the teams defense and offense. Hate him if you want- the man can ball- plus you notice when Kyrie is hot... He just plays ball within the system putting the team before his stats. I hate Lebron but as a Point he is a amazingly unselfish and talented.

For the 5 guys Wall lillard lowery Westbrook Parker all fighting for the next 2 or 3 spots.

Parker has the rings and game but you wouldn't say his defense is good or his shot amazing. You could also say he is a system guy that's older and less athletic than the other guys. We wil never know if Parker would be elite without Pop and Duncan - but he could care less im sure. He is a HOF player with rings- no one apart from Paul on the elite list is assured HOF and only he has rings (less Lebron)

Lillard plays like a mad man but will defer to his bigs and get others involved. He is a big game player! Cons- defense is suspect as hell- and sometimes gets in "fire first mode'.

Lowery - he is basically everyone's underdog and dark horse pick. It's like people say his name in the conversation so that they can sound like they can go get deep on basketball knowledge. People also say he doesn't get props cause he in Canada. Which is stupid because nobody traveling to away games to watch people play... So if you staying home.. Toronto is the same distance away as Miami, la or Cleveland- he is as close as your tv. His game is solid but would you really trade any of the other guys on this list for him? Really??? Is he a max guy... Come on ? Would you bet your job on it

Westbrook is just a beast- he is rose 2.0 - a demon that took human form. I am tempted to say he is a scoring guard and not a point/facilitator and thus shouldn't be on the list of points... Like Kyrie. Westbrook is on the list because unlike Kyrie, he can and does do it all on both ends of the floor. Westbrook is untraceable, unwatchable if you a okc fan sometimes because he refuses to be the sidekick but wow he can ball! The best attributes of Westbrook are also the worse attributes of Westbrook- and ultimately the reason why KD is going to opt to play with a pass first, second and third point guard like Wall. Westbrook looks around and says - I'm the best option on this play - regardless of the play/set/ time on clock.. When the best scorer on planet earth is calling for the ball.

wall is better than all of the other guys in some ways and marginally worse in others. His defense good - sometimes but the defensive sets we run sometimes makes the whole team look bad when we switching on picks so poorly. Wall appears to be coach able and hungry. His physical gifts are up there at the top. Wall is a true point guard facilitator. Wall may not be able to shoot but damn his scoring and assist Avg are elite level. And his team is winning. Leading a winning team matters in these rankings - or they should. He isn't perfect but he is the right guy for our team and I wouldn't trade him for anyone but possibly curry on that list--- Paul is older and the rest of the guys have strengths and weaknesses that don't give me any assurance that we would be better off with any of the other guys in the "top 5"


Kyrie is a scoring guard. He isn't a poor mans AI because AI scored and had more assist per game- many a year and won with cast of characters at least as bad as Cleveland last year. Kyrie is going to be all universe as a scoring two guard next to Lebron. This frees Kyrie up to worry about getting buckets- he is in the perfect spot now. Just get buckets ---- but he wouldn't make any of the teams better if he had to facilitate the offense and initiate the defense- Kyrie can score with anyone - shoot with anyone - and pass like... Kobe and Nick young- the Cavs couldnt get in the playoffs last year and d.waiters punching him in the face cause he can't get the ball. Waiters demanding the ball?!? What? Then this year he went 6 quarters without an assist to prove a point to Lebron after receiving criticism. Seems like they figured out the best way to use Kyrie now. Say what you want but it's smart to use a player to his strengths.


Go wiz!

Lebron is a great passer, especially for his position, but he's not the best facilitator in the league. It's not as if you could argue he would average more assists per game if he was able to handle the ball more like we come to think all point guards do because every stop he's been at he's always had the ball in his hands. Even if your argument isn't a strictly about how many assist he average and about his pure passing skill I would still say there are better facilitators (Rondo and Paul among others) in the the league. He's also shown in tight game situations he's prone to having some sloppy TOs. I mean had the Ray Allen shot not went down versus the Spurs their first showdown in the finals he would have been 0-2 against the Spurs and to have some big arrant passes to point to (among other things). Again not knocking his passing ability, but I'm too much of a Lebron hater to give hime "the best facilitator" nod when its not true.

[Youheardme90]

I mean I believe in stats but I also know how to balance it out. I feel as though a lot of people are lost in stats. Sometimes you gotta really watch the games, and use the eye test.

[CobraCommander]

The debate starts at either 3 or 4 as a point.

curry and Paul 1&2 respectively. And then you have 5 guys that can legitimately say they are in the top 5.point guards. Wall being one of that 5. Lillard, and Lowery being in that 5 with wall! Kyrie is not on the list of top 5 point guards.

The other list of points has to include Lebron at point forward which pushes Wall to number 4- with Lebron being 1, curry 2... Etc I say this because Lebron is the best facilitator in the league and runs the teams defense and offense. Hate him if you want- the man can ball- plus you notice when Kyrie is hot... He just plays ball within the system putting the team before his stats. I hate Lebron but as a Point he is a amazingly unselfish and talented.

For the 5 guys Wall lillard lowery Westbrook Parker all fighting for the next 2 or 3 spots.

Parker has the rings and game but you wouldn't say his defense is good or his shot amazing. You could also say he is a system guy that's older and less athletic than the other guys. We wil never know if Parker would be elite without Pop and Duncan - but he could care less im sure. He is a HOF player with rings- no one apart from Paul on the elite list is assured HOF and only he has rings (less Lebron)

Lillard plays like a mad man but will defer to his bigs and get others involved. He is a big game player! Cons- defense is suspect as hell- and sometimes gets in "fire first mode'.

Lowery - he is basically everyone's underdog and dark horse pick. It's like people say his name in the conversation so that they can sound like they can go get deep on basketball knowledge. People also say he doesn't get props cause he in Canada. Which is stupid because nobody traveling to away games to watch people play... So if you staying home.. Toronto is the same distance away as Miami, la or Cleveland- he is as close as your tv. His game is solid but would you really trade any of the other guys on this list for him? Really??? Is he a max guy... Come on ? Would you bet your job on it

Westbrook is just a beast- he is rose 2.0 - a demon that took human form. I am tempted to say he is a scoring guard and not a point/facilitator and thus shouldn't be on the list of points... Like Kyrie. Westbrook is on the list because unlike Kyrie, he can and does do it all on both ends of the floor. Westbrook is untraceable, unwatchable if you a okc fan sometimes because he refuses to be the sidekick but wow he can ball! The best attributes of Westbrook are also the worse attributes of Westbrook- and ultimately the reason why KD is going to opt to play with a pass first, second and third point guard like Wall. Westbrook looks around and says - I'm the best option on this play - regardless of the play/set/ time on clock.. When the best scorer on planet earth is calling for the ball.

wall is better than all of the other guys in some ways and marginally worse in others. His defense good - sometimes but the defensive sets we run sometimes makes the whole team look bad when we switching on picks so poorly. Wall appears to be coach able and hungry. His physical gifts are up there at the top. Wall is a true point guard facilitator. Wall may not be able to shoot but damn his scoring and assist Avg are elite level. And his team is winning. Leading a winning team matters in these rankings - or they should. He isn't perfect but he is the right guy for our team and I wouldn't trade him for anyone but possibly curry on that list--- Paul is older and the rest of the guys have strengths and weaknesses that don't give me any assurance that we would be better off with any of the other guys in the "top 5"


Kyrie is a scoring guard. He isn't a poor mans AI because AI scored and had more assist per game- many a year and won with cast of characters at least as bad as Cleveland last year. Kyrie is going to be all universe as a scoring two guard next to Lebron. This frees Kyrie up to worry about getting buckets- he is in the perfect spot now. Just get buckets ---- but he wouldn't make any of the teams better if he had to facilitate the offense and initiate the defense- Kyrie can score with anyone - shoot with anyone - and pass like... Kobe and Nick young- the Cavs couldnt get in the playoffs last year and d.waiters punching him in the face cause he can't get the ball. Waiters demanding the ball?!? What? Then this year he went 6 quarters without an assist to prove a point to Lebron after receiving criticism. Seems like they figured out the best way to use Kyrie now. Say what you want but it's smart to use a player to his strengths.


Go wiz!

Lebron is a great passer, especially for his position, but he's not the best facilitator in the league. It's not as if you could argue he would average more assists per game if he was able to handle the ball more like we come to think all point guards do because every stop he's been at he's always had the ball in his hands. Even if your argument isn't a strictly about how many assist he average and about his pure passing skill I would still say there are better facilitators (Rondo and Paul among others) in the the league. He's also shown in tight game situations he's prone to having some sloppy TOs. I mean had the Ray Allen shot not went down versus the Spurs their first showdown in the finals he would have been 0-2 against the Spurs and to have some big arrant passes to point to (among other things). Again not knocking his passing ability, but I'm too much of a Lebron hater to give hime "the best facilitator" nod when its not true.

If your biggest problem with my post is the fact that Lebron isn't the best facilitator... I'll take that. My point about LeBron or any big play facilitator is that they can set up their team because they are a threat to score or pass to the right man for the best shot. Lebron does that as well as any of the best point guards in my opinion. Plus if lebron plays point like he did in the Olympics like he did with Melo on kd- Either way - Wall is a top five point. The point position is secure in DC-

WallStar!

[tontoz]

6 turnovers against a weak defensive team. And his scoring efficiency is the same as Brandon Jennings and Rodney Stuckey.

[SaiCLE]

Wtf Is happening XD

[SaiCLE]

at the rate wall keeps getting better yr after yr, he may well one day be the best of the bunch. but right now paul, curry, and westbrook are the clear leaders. followed by lowry. 5TH is based on what u value.

that being said if u asked me who i would want to start a team with it would be wall. he seems to be the guy nobody would have a problem playing with. plus he plays both sides well.

paul is great but getting older.

curry is great but delicate and likely to have a major injury at some point

westbrook great but selfish and has been injured alot lately.

rose looks like hes going the way of grant hill, vince carter, and tmac at best

parker still great but beginning his decline

irving not a defender, team leader, or pass first point. and seems to impact team chemistry negitively. his attitude will likely cost him the way kobe's cost him.

lowry is what he is not going to get much better. im not even sure he would play this way for anyone else

lillard. ??? havent really ever paid attention to him for some reason. so dont know



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Uh you couldn't be anymore wrong. Kyrie is having a great year so far, his defense has improve dramatically. Also stop with the "hes a cancer/chucker BS" It's getting old already.

[dangermouse]

Chrisp Aaul
Steph Curry
Rajon Rondo
Kyle Lowry
Russel Westbrook
John Wall

Thats how i see the hierarchy right now. And those bottom 3 will jostle for position all season long.

[jangles86]

Wall and Paul have near identical stats, walls is marginally better. Wiz and Clippers have near identical records. But somehow Paul is rated far ahead of Wall.... Someone please explain this logic to me?

[Higga]

Based on the overall #s the question isn't is Wall top 5, but is Wall #1...

[Nivek]

Wall and Paul have near identical stats, walls is marginally better. Wiz and Clippers have near identical records. But somehow Paul is rated far ahead of Wall.... Someone please explain this logic to me?

Their stats aren't nearly identical, and Wall's aren't marginally better. Specifically, Paul shoots WAY better (.597 efg vs. Wall's .452), and he generates the same number of assists while committing fewer than half the turnovers.

Wall is having a very good season, but Paul is having a better one.

[tontoz]

Based on the overall #s the question isn't is Wall top 5, but is Wall #1...

You forgot the green font.

[Ruzious]

Wall and Paul have near identical stats, walls is marginally better. Wiz and Clippers have near identical records. But somehow Paul is rated far ahead of Wall.... Someone please explain this logic to me?

Their stats aren't nearly identical, and Wall's aren't marginally better. Specifically, Paul shoots WAY better (.597 efg vs. Wall's .452), and he generates the same number of assists while committing fewer than half the turnovers.

Wall is having a very good season, but Paul is having a better one.

As the saying goes, you can drive a truck through those 2 differences. John's is a great talent and a very good player. He is not in Paul's class.

[jangles86]

Wall and Paul have near identical stats, walls is marginally better. Wiz and Clippers have near identical records. But somehow Paul is rated far ahead of Wall.... Someone please explain this logic to me?

Their stats aren't nearly identical, and Wall's aren't marginally better. Specifically, Paul shoots WAY better (.597 efg vs. Wall's .452), and he generates the same number of assists while committing fewer than half the turnovers.

Wall is having a very good season, but Paul is having a better one.

What about on the defensive side? How do they compare?

[dckingsfan]

Wall and Paul have near identical stats, walls is marginally better. Wiz and Clippers have near identical records. But somehow Paul is rated far ahead of Wall.... Someone please explain this logic to me?

Their stats aren't nearly identical, and Wall's aren't marginally better. Specifically, Paul shoots WAY better (.597 efg vs. Wall's .452), and he generates the same number of assists while committing fewer than half the turnovers.

Wall is having a very good season, but Paul is having a better one.

What about on the defensive side? How do they compare?

Wall has a DRtg of 99 - I would guess that would make him one of the top defensive point guards this year. Stephen Curry is the big surprise this year with a DRtg of 97!

[Nivek]

Wall and Paul have near identical stats, walls is marginally better. Wiz and Clippers have near identical records. But somehow Paul is rated far ahead of Wall.... Someone please explain this logic to me?

Their stats aren't nearly identical, and Wall's aren't marginally better. Specifically, Paul shoots WAY better (.597 efg vs. Wall's .452), and he generates the same number of assists while committing fewer than half the turnovers.

Wall is having a very good season, but Paul is having a better one.

What about on the defensive side? How do they compare?

In my stuff, Wall rates as having a bigger defensive impact than Paul. In fact, Wall is tied with Rondo for having the biggest defensive impact so far for a PG this season. Paul ranks 4th; Steph Curry 3rd.

[Nivek]

Their stats aren't nearly identical, and Wall's aren't marginally better. Specifically, Paul shoots WAY better (.597 efg vs. Wall's .452), and he generates the same number of assists while committing fewer than half the turnovers.

Wall is having a very good season, but Paul is having a better one.

What about on the defensive side? How do they compare?

Wall has a DRtg of 99 - I would guess that would make him one of the top defensive point guards this year. Stephen Curry is the big surprise this year with a DRtg of 97!

I'd suggest to pay little attention to individual drtg. It's not a good stat -- one of Dean Oliver's less helpful "contributions." Individual drtg relies on a series of estimates, which hand tracking of games showed to be not very accurate.

The problem with individual drtg creates a ripple effect into win shares, by the way, which relies on individual ortg and individual drtg stats. The individual ortg is really good, but not iDrtg.