Is Wall Top 5 PG?

[jangles86]

Their stats aren't nearly identical, and Wall's aren't marginally better. Specifically, Paul shoots WAY better (.597 efg vs. Wall's .452), and he generates the same number of assists while committing fewer than half the turnovers.

Wall is having a very good season, but Paul is having a better one.

What about on the defensive side? How do they compare?

In my stuff, Wall rates as having a bigger defensive impact than Paul. In fact, Wall is tied with Rondo for having the biggest defensive impact so far for a PG this season. Paul ranks 4th; Steph Curry 3rd.

Crazy bit is that I think that Wall has only just started to better defensively and Id say he can improve even more ok the defensive end!

[dckingsfan]

What about on the defensive side? How do they compare?

Wall has a DRtg of 99 - I would guess that would make him one of the top defensive point guards this year. Stephen Curry is the big surprise this year with a DRtg of 97!

I'd suggest to pay little attention to individual drtg. It's not a good stat -- one of Dean Oliver's less helpful "contributions." Individual drtg relies on a series of estimates, which hand tracking of games showed to be not very accurate.

The problem with individual drtg creates a ripple effect into win shares, by the way, which relies on individual ortg and individual drtg stats. The individual ortg is really good, but not iDrtg.

Agreed - but where I might disagree is year over year for the same player. And Curry's jump still stands as a very nice surprise for GS, no?

[Nivek]

Wall has a DRtg of 99 - I would guess that would make him one of the top defensive point guards this year. Stephen Curry is the big surprise this year with a DRtg of 97!

I'd suggest to pay little attention to individual drtg. It's not a good stat -- one of Dean Oliver's less helpful "contributions." Individual drtg relies on a series of estimates, which hand tracking of games showed to be not very accurate.

The problem with individual drtg creates a ripple effect into win shares, by the way, which relies on individual ortg and individual drtg stats. The individual ortg is really good, but not iDrtg.

Agreed - but where I might disagree is year over year for the same player.

Maybe. Would need stuff to stay pretty consistent in terms of coaching, role and teammates. That really hasn't been the case in GSW. Curry's role seems to be similar, but Bogut has gotten a lot more playing time, and the Warriors changed the coach.

And Curry's jump still stands as a very nice surprise for GS, no?

Despite what I posted earlier, I'd agree with this. Curry's defensive impact is way up this year. That's true of Klay Thompson as well. The only guys with GSW NOT taking major steps forward defensively in my stuff are Bogut and Green. Well, Bogut was terrific last season and is even better this year. Green was good last season, and is a little better this year.

So far.

[dckingsfan]

I'd suggest to pay little attention to individual drtg. It's not a good stat -- one of Dean Oliver's less helpful "contributions." Individual drtg relies on a series of estimates, which hand tracking of games showed to be not very accurate.

The problem with individual drtg creates a ripple effect into win shares, by the way, which relies on individual ortg and individual drtg stats. The individual ortg is really good, but not iDrtg.

Agreed - but where I might disagree is year over year for the same player.

Maybe. Would need stuff to stay pretty consistent in terms of coaching, role and teammates. That really hasn't been the case in GSW. Curry's role seems to be similar, but Bogut has gotten a lot more playing time, and the Warriors changed the coach.

And Curry's jump still stands as a very nice surprise for GS, no?

Despite what I posted earlier, I'd agree with this. Curry's defensive impact is way up this year. That's true of Klay Thompson as well. The only guys with GSW NOT taking major steps forward defensively in my stuff are Bogut and Green. Well, Bogut was terrific last season and is even better this year. Green was good last season, and is a little better this year.

So far.

Thanks for the feedback - you are right... it could change even if there was a static lineup if one of the other players also made a big jump. hmmm...

[CobraCommander]

Tonight against the Celtics WallStar ended the debate about if he is elite in my opinion. 21-17-7-3 etc ...10 points in a row to bring the wiz back and then to break down in the post game and talk about the person he dedicated the game to instead of that sick stat line.

WallStar- top 5

[milellie111]

He is more than a top 5 point guard. This performance tonight on and off the court proved that.

[RustyMagoo]

Very, very impressive.

[pancakes3]

Tonight against the Celtics WallStar ended the debate about if he is elite in my opinion. 21-17-7-3 etc ...10 points in a row to bring the wiz back and then to break down in the post game and talk about the person he dedicated the game to instead of that sick stat line.

WallStar- top 5

Who'd he dedicate the game to?

[tontoz]

15 turnovers in 2 games against the Celtics. That is not the work of a top 5 pg. Overtime wouldn't have been needed with a top 5 pg.

His turnovers and weak scoring efficiency are major problems. Funny how people keep trying to ignore them.

[doclinkin]

Tonight against the Celtics WallStar ended the debate about if he is elite in my opinion. 21-17-7-3 etc ...10 points in a row to bring the wiz back and then to break down in the post game and talk about the person he dedicated the game to instead of that sick stat line.

WallStar- top 5

Who'd he dedicate the game to?

Miyah. A 6 yr old girl he had met and befriended who died of lymphoma on Saturday, he broke down and could not finish the interview after talking about her bravery and she didn't deserve to die basically.

[jangles86]

I couldn't care less about whether John is a top 5 point guard or not. He showed me again tonight why I have followed him since his first game with the Wizards. He is a leader and wears his heart on his sleeve. His emotion is what makes him different from the rest.

[cammac]

Wall is very good but not in top 5 but he is second best PG in the East after Lowry who is the better all round PG.
Top5
Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Lowry
Lillard
Wall/Conley

[J-Ves]

Wall is very good but not in top 5 but he is second best PG in the East after Lowry who is the better all round PG.
Top5
Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Lowry
Lillard
Wall/Conley

Wheres Irving on your list? Do you think Wall, Irving, and Lowry will all make the all star game?

[stevemcqueen1]

15 turnovers in 2 games against the Celtics. That is not the work of a top 5 pg. Overtime wouldn't have been needed with a top 5 pg.

His turnovers and weak scoring efficiency are major problems. Funny how people keep trying to ignore them.

Moving the goalposts: Not a top five PG because the team went to overtime in a regular season game against the Celtics.

You want to talk only about his 15 TOs these two games? You're the one cherrypicking, ignoring the 31 assists that went along with those. GTFO with that crap.

[stevemcqueen1]

Lowry is having a better individual season so far than Wall. But there is a lot of basketball left to play, and Lowry is not a better all around player than Wall. He's a much more efficient offensive player. A lot of that comes from him playing a lesser role than Wall on a team with a slightly better supporting cast top to bottom. Wall is a much better defensive player and passer than Lowry.

[cammac]

Wall is very good but not in top 5 but he is second best PG in the East after Lowry who is the better all round PG.
Top5
Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Lowry
Lillard
Wall/Conley

Wheres Irving on your list? Do you think Wall, Irving, and Lowry will all make the all star game?

Outside the top 10 Irving is the most overrated PG in the league.
LeBron is the PG of the team.

[Wizkids12345]

Wall is very good but not in top 5 but he is second best PG in the East after Lowry who is the better all round PG.
Top5
Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Lowry
Lillard
Wall/Conley

John wall is averaging 3 more assists, 2 more steals, more rebounds, more blocks per game than lowry, what exactly makes lowry the better all around PG?
Kyle Lowry is averaging 2 more points on 1 percent better shooting. Advanced statistics will show hes scoring more efficiently but still. All around?

[cammac]

Wall is very good but not in top 5 but he is second best PG in the East after Lowry who is the better all round PG.
Top5
Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Lowry
Lillard
Wall/Conley

John wall is averaging 3 more assists, 2 more steals, more rebounds, more blocks per game than lowry, what exactly makes lowry the better all around PG?
Kyle Lowry is averaging 2 more points on 1 percent better shooting. Advanced statistics will show hes scoring more efficiently but still. All around?

I am not saying Wall is bad maybe a slight step below Lowry btw Lowry has more rebounds & obviously scores more and he is the leader of the team without a doubt.

[CobraCommander]

Wall is very good but not in top 5 but he is second best PG in the East after Lowry who is the better all round PG.
Top5
Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Lowry
Lillard
Wall/Conley

John wall is averaging 3 more assists, 2 more steals, more rebounds, more blocks per game than lowry, what exactly makes lowry the better all around PG?
Kyle Lowry is averaging 2 more points on 1 percent better shooting. Advanced statistics will show hes scoring more efficiently but still. All around?

I see your quote of cammac and raise you one first round playoff win (last year).

I'm glad you think your point is better than Wall- fans shouldn't be exactly objective. So here we go- Not only is my point better than yours - my team is too.

[AFM]

15 turnovers in 2 games against the Celtics. That is not the work of a top 5 pg. Overtime wouldn't have been needed with a top 5 pg.

His turnovers and weak scoring efficiency are major problems. Funny how people keep trying to ignore them.

Hello Tontoz,
Do you ever get tired of being so negative? Almost every post I see from you is complaining about Wall's turnovers or "long twos". I think I'm going to buy you an ugly Christmas sweater that says "ASK ME ABOUT LONG TWOS" on the back. And a vanity plate-- "LONG2S"

Please don't think that I'm picking on you, I just want you to be happy. To see you so frustrated and desperately negative breaks my heart. Have you considered laughing yoga?
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8uxxMXuhZ8[/youtube]

All the best.
Your boy,
AF