Winning The Lottery: Drummond or Okafor?

[princeofpalace]

I would draft Mudiay and still trade Drummond. Andre's value will never be higher IMO, we can try to trade him now for a legit wing or we can hold onto him and let him get exposed as the Deandre Jordan esque player that he is.

I'm trying to figure out why having that type of player at centre is a bad thing.

Its not a bad thing- just not a player that you build around.

[ImHeisenberg]

I feel like we're not going to finish in the bottom 3. The Wolves are going into tank mode, the Knicks have shut down Melo, the Lakers have every incentive in the world to finish in the bottom 5, and the 76er are still the masters of the tank brigade.

Meanwhile, SVG still wants to win as many games as possible. Hopefully we just pull a Cleveland and jump from our usual spot of 6 to 9 and grab the top pick.

[vic]

I'd stick with Drummond.

There are multiple franchise players in this draft. I'd even go so far as to say in terms of basketball IQ, this draft far surpasses the past few drafts.

Towns, Okafor, Winslow, Johnson... all 4 of those look better to me in terms of IQ than Parker/Wiggins. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them, even Turner, Oubre, Cauley-Stein are looking better than anyone in the past couple of drafts (other than Embiid, Giannis, Wiggins/Parker)

I'd stick with Drummond and add the best SF or jumpshooting PF available. Drummond is still a beast when played right, and able to operate in space. (without 2 other bigs on the floor with him).

[ImHeisenberg]

I'd stick with Drummond.

There are multiple franchise players in this draft. I'd even go so far as to say in terms of basketball IQ, this draft far surpasses the past few drafts.

Towns, Okafor, Winslow, Johnson... all 4 of those look better to me in terms of IQ than Parker/Wiggins. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them, even Turner, Oubre, Cauley-Stein are looking better than anyone in the past couple of drafts (other than Embiid, Giannis, Wiggins/Parker)

I'd stick with Drummond and add the best SF or jumpshooting PF available. Drummond is still a beast when played right, and able to operate in space. (without 2 other bigs on the floor with him).

I'm not nearly as high on this draft. It's early, but a lot of hyped players coming out of high school haven't really stood out. I'm hoping Johnson or Winslow really take a step forward as the season progresses.

But I question your opinion when you say Oubre has looked better than Parker/Wiggins. He's averaging less than 3 points per game. He probably won't even leave school if he continues to stink this bad.

[vic]

I'd stick with Drummond.

There are multiple franchise players in this draft. I'd even go so far as to say in terms of basketball IQ, this draft far surpasses the past few drafts.

Towns, Okafor, Winslow, Johnson... all 4 of those look better to me in terms of IQ than Parker/Wiggins. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them, even Turner, Oubre, Cauley-Stein are looking better than anyone in the past couple of drafts (other than Embiid, Giannis, Wiggins/Parker)

I'd stick with Drummond and add the best SF or jumpshooting PF available. Drummond is still a beast when played right, and able to operate in space. (without 2 other bigs on the floor with him).

I'm not nearly as high on this draft. It's early, but a lot of hyped players coming out of high school haven't really stood out. I'm hoping Johnson or Winslow really take a step forward as the season progresses.

But I question your opinion when you say Oubre has looked better than Parker/Wiggins. He's averaging less than 3 points per game. He probably won't even leave school if he continues to stink this bad.

I said "other than Wiggins/Parker" I said Turner, Oubre, Cauley-Stein are looking better than any players OTHER than those. Mainly because they have jumpshots (turner/oubre) and are multi-skilled (Cauley).

Anyway, with Oubre I'm not talking about stats i'm talking about his length and talent level for an SF. Oubre is going to take time, but Kansas is a system known for deflating wings a little bit anyway.

[ImHeisenberg]

Anyway, with Oubre I'm not talking about stats i'm talking about his length and talent level for an SF. Oubre is going to take time, but Kansas is a system known for deflating wings a little bit anyway.

I've found KU doing quite the opposite- over-inflating the stock draft of their players. Michael Beasley (#2), Thomas Robinson (#5), Ben McLemore (#7). One's already out of the league, the other is out of the rotation due to the play of a mid-30's white guy, and McLemore is incredibly inconsistent.

Oubre isn't even starting for KU. He has a million dollar body, no question. He's a prototype wing- he has the size and athleticism to be a star wing player. But, the mental aspect, training and skill seem to be completely absent from the equation.

[vic]

Anyway, with Oubre I'm not talking about stats i'm talking about his length and talent level for an SF. Oubre is going to take time, but Kansas is a system known for deflating wings a little bit anyway.

I've found KU doing quite the opposite- over-inflating the stock draft of their players. Michael Beasley (#2), Thomas Robinson (#5), Ben McLemore (#7). One's already out of the league, the other is out of the rotation due to the play of a mid-30's white guy, and McLemore is incredibly inconsistent.

Oubre isn't even starting for KU. He has a million dollar body, no question. He's a prototype wing- he has the size and athleticism to be a star wing player. But, the mental aspect, training and skill seem to be completely absent from the equation.

by deflating, I mean deflating their NBA potential. meaning making them play worse than they could have.

but on Oubre, you are probably right, he might not even come out this year. really skinny still.

[Lionlifer]

I don't understand why big time win players go to KU, never have, never will. Self just doesn't showcase their game, he seems more focused on the bigs. Granted KU is a pro factory, so that probably plays into why they end up there.

But to the topic at hand. We are so bad we should take BPA regardless, we need talent, plain and simple. Don't care if it's a big, wing, or PG, we just need people who can ball.

[ImHeisenberg]

by deflating, I mean deflating their NBA potential. meaning making them play worse than they could have.

but on Oubre, you are probably right, he might not even come out this year. really skinny still.

I think that's more myth than truth. We've seen a lot of high profile picks come from there and people would always use that Self excuse, and claimed they'd be superior in the pros. In terms of recent history, that's been anything but the truth.

[need4detroit]

I'm not a huge Okafor fan.Hes a skilled turtle.

[jfuchs91]

The Pistons aren't getting rid of Drummond, nor should they. It's amazing to me how quickly some of you would get rid of a 21 year old center with one-in-a-generation type physical attributes. Drummond is 21 and on his third coach in as many seasons in the NBA. I know some of you are growing impatient, but let him have some continuity (and organizational competence) before you write him off so quickly. He's already established himself as an elite rebounder, and has all the tools to be a dominant, defensive anchor on defense. Developing players takes time (especially big men), and frankly, Drummond hasn't been in the best situation through the waning years of the Joe D era. Maybe Drummond won't develop into a franchise player who can carry a team on offense and defense, but it's still too early to make that judgement call, and he's going to be an all-star caliber center for the next decade regardless. The notion that the Pistons should get rid of him is nothing short of ludicrous.

Now in terms of this draft, if I'm the Pistons, I'm hoping I can somehow land Emmanuel Mudiay. The NBA has quickly evolved into a point guard driven league, and Mudiay is just that: a true point guard. At 6'5" Mudiay has legit handles and great court vision. He projects to be a very good defender, and his overall game has a John Wall-esque feel to it.
Don't get me wrong, I love a heady post player like Okafor, and I fully expect him to have a very strong NBA career (and he's probably the safest pick in this draft), but I'm a firm believer in building around defense and Okafor may have some limitations in that regard. I can see the Duncan comparisons when I see such a young player operate in the post like Okafor does, but the Duncan comparisons end quickly when you remember that Timmy is also one of the best rebounders and post defenders in the history of the sport.

I think we're all in agreement that the Pistons have very few "keepers" on their roster at this point in time, but I think Mudiay complements the Drummond-KCP core very well. That core alone boasts some limitless defensive potential, and Mudiay can be the kind of player that creates easy buckets for his teammates on offense. If you have doubts that Drummond can ever be a back-to-the-basket big, Mudiay is just what the doctor ordered. A perimeter player that can get into the lane at will draws extra defensive attention and will open up dump offs and alley-oops to Drummond, where he's already shown he can produce at a high level (13+ PPG and #2 FG% in the league last year, almost exclusively on these plays). Mudiay, Drummond, KCP, and a wing scorer (likely to have another high pick in 2016... and also a lot of cap space) could be a dangerous team in the East down the road. People are impatient with the lack of success over the past several years, but rebuilding the right way takes time, and Detroit has a new FO now.

If the Pistons do end up picking a little later than the top 3, someone to keep an eye on is Kristaps Porzingis. He definitely needs to bulk up, and I question whether he'll ever be a great rebounder at the NBA level, but he could be a perfect fit next to Drummond in the post. They'd own the paint defensively with their size, lateral quickness, length, and rim protecting ability. Seriously, the lateral quickness of that duo would be off-the-charts and would allow them to cover a lot of ground in a short period of time. And on offense, Porzingis has shown he can stretch the floor a little bit which could help alleviate the long range shooting woes. Some are weary of foreign players (Pistons fans especially so, and for good reason), but I really like the way they're taught the game over there, and Porzingis shouldn't struggle to keep up athletically (although he really does need to put on some weight).

[Damon_3388]

Anyway, with Oubre I'm not talking about stats i'm talking about his length and talent level for an SF. Oubre is going to take time, but Kansas is a system known for deflating wings a little bit anyway.

I've found KU doing quite the opposite- over-inflating the stock draft of their players. Michael Beasley (#2), Thomas Robinson (#5), Ben McLemore (#7). One's already out of the league, the other is out of the rotation due to the play of a mid-30's white guy, and McLemore is incredibly inconsistent.

Oubre isn't even starting for KU. He has a million dollar body, no question. He's a prototype wing- he has the size and athleticism to be a star wing player. But, the mental aspect, training and skill seem to be completely absent from the equation.

Michael Beasley went to Kansas State University, not Kansas.

[ImHeisenberg]

Anyway, with Oubre I'm not talking about stats i'm talking about his length and talent level for an SF. Oubre is going to take time, but Kansas is a system known for deflating wings a little bit anyway.

I've found KU doing quite the opposite- over-inflating the stock draft of their players. Michael Beasley (#2), Thomas Robinson (#5), Ben McLemore (#7). One's already out of the league, the other is out of the rotation due to the play of a mid-30's white guy, and McLemore is incredibly inconsistent.

Oubre isn't even starting for KU. He has a million dollar body, no question. He's a prototype wing- he has the size and athleticism to be a star wing player. But, the mental aspect, training and skill seem to be completely absent from the equation.

Michael Beasley went to Kansas State University, not Kansas.

Thank you for the correction. That was invaluable information.

[Damon_3388]

I've found KU doing quite the opposite- over-inflating the stock draft of their players. Michael Beasley (#2), Thomas Robinson (#5), Ben McLemore (#7). One's already out of the league, the other is out of the rotation due to the play of a mid-30's white guy, and McLemore is incredibly inconsistent.

Oubre isn't even starting for KU. He has a million dollar body, no question. He's a prototype wing- he has the size and athleticism to be a star wing player. But, the mental aspect, training and skill seem to be completely absent from the equation.

Michael Beasley went to Kansas State University, not Kansas.

Thank you for the correction. That was invaluable information.

Well it was clearly wrong information, and your argument is altered/weakened significantly by it's omission, given what a spectacular failure Beasley turned out to be, so yeah, I think it was invaluable.

[ImHeisenberg]

Well it was clearly wrong information, and your argument is altered/weakened significantly by it's omission, given what a spectacular failure Beasley turned out to be, so yeah, I think it was invaluable.

Sure it is. You must be really proud of yourself.

[Damon_3388]

Sure it is. You must be really proud of yourself.

It means absolutely nothing to me.

[ImHeisenberg]

Sure it is. You must be really proud of yourself.

It means absolutely nothing to me.

[Damon_3388]

[MrBigShot]

The Pistons aren't getting rid of Drummond, nor should they. It's amazing to me how quickly some of you would get rid of a 22 year old center with one-in-a-generation type physical attributes. Drummond is 22 and on his third coach in as many seasons in the NBA. I know some of you are growing impatient, but let him have some continuity (and organizational competence) before you write him off so quickly. He's already established himself as an elite rebounder, and has all the tools to be a dominant, defensive anchor on defense. Developing players takes time (especially big men), and frankly, Drummond hasn't been in the best situation through the waning years of the Joe D era. Maybe Drummond won't develop into a franchise player who can carry a team on offense and defense, but it's still too early to make that judgement call, and he's going to be an all-star caliber center for the next decade regardless. The notion that the Pistons should get rid of him is nothing short of ludicrous.

This is a terrific post. I'm amazed at how within a mere 23 games fan perception of Drummond went from untouchable future star to a guy who will never be much better than DeAndre Jordan. It's silly.

Is everyone just disregarding that last month of last season in April where Drummond averaged 18/17 while showing flashes of a legitimate post game? Sure, it was only 8 games, but he's shown flashes this year too. The physical tools and athleticism is there. The experience and understanding of how to use his size/athleticism to his advantage as well as anchoring a defense are still in development.

To give up on him, or entertain trading him for less than a legit all star caliber player in return is flat out silly. I've said it before and will continue to say it. He's 21 years old and hasn't even finished his rookie contract, let's give him a chance before writing him off.

[Finn McCool]

The Pistons aren't getting rid of Drummond, nor should they. It's amazing to me how quickly some of you would get rid of a 22 year old center with one-in-a-generation type physical attributes. Drummond is 22 and on his third coach in as many seasons in the NBA. I know some of you are growing impatient, but let him have some continuity (and organizational competence) before you write him off so quickly. He's already established himself as an elite rebounder, and has all the tools to be a dominant, defensive anchor on defense. Developing players takes time (especially big men), and frankly, Drummond hasn't been in the best situation through the waning years of the Joe D era. Maybe Drummond won't develop into a franchise player who can carry a team on offense and defense, but it's still too early to make that judgement call, and he's going to be an all-star caliber center for the next decade regardless. The notion that the Pistons should get rid of him is nothing short of ludicrous.

Now in terms of this draft, if I'm the Pistons, I'm hoping I can somehow land Emmanuel Mudiay. The NBA has quickly evolved into a point guard driven league, and Mudiay is just that: a true point guard. At 6'5" Mudiay has legit handles and great court vision. He projects to be a very good defender, and his overall game has a John Wall-esque feel to it.
Don't get me wrong, I love a heady post player like Okafor, and I fully expect him to have a very strong NBA career (and he's probably the safest pick in this draft), but I'm a firm believer in building around defense and Okafor may have some limitations in that regard. I can see the Duncan comparisons when I see such a young player operate in the post like Okafor does, but the Duncan comparisons end quickly when you remember that Timmy is also one of the best rebounders and post defenders in the history of the sport.

I think we're all in agreement that the Pistons have very few "keepers" on their roster at this point in time, but I think Mudiay complements the Drummond-KCP core very well. That core alone boasts some limitless defensive potential, and Mudiay can be the kind of player that creates easy buckets for his teammates on offense. If you have doubts that Drummond can ever be a back-to-the-basket big, Mudiay is just what the doctor ordered. A perimeter player that can get into the lane at will draws extra defensive attention and will open up dump offs and alley-oops to Drummond, where he's already shown he can produce at a high level (13+ PPG and #2 FG% in the league last year, almost exclusively on these plays). Mudiay, Drummond, KCP, and a wing scorer (likely to have another high pick in 2016... and also a lot of cap space) could be a dangerous team in the East down the road. People are impatient with the lack of success over the past several years, but rebuilding the right way takes time, and Detroit has a new FO now.

If the Pistons do end up picking a little later than the top 3, someone to keep an eye on is Kristaps Porzingis. He definitely needs to bulk up, and I question whether he'll ever be a great rebounder at the NBA level, but he could be a perfect fit next to Drummond in the post. They'd own the paint defensively with their size, lateral quickness, length, and rim protecting ability. Seriously, the lateral quickness of that duo would be off-the-charts and would allow them to cover a lot of ground in a short period of time. And on offense, Porzingis has shown he can stretch the floor a little bit which could help alleviate the long range shooting woes. Some are weary of foreign players (Pistons fans especially so, and for good reason), but I really like the way they're taught the game over there, and Porzingis shouldn't struggle to keep up athletically (although he really does need to put on some weight).

Excuse me for being a jerk, but what is it that makes you think you are an expert?

Please tell all of us here why you are the only guy with a clear vision of the potential of players.

Have you seen Mudiay play? Have you sat in a HS gymnasium and actually watched him? Traveled around to AAU venues?

I don't intend for this to sound like an attack, but you can be sure it is patronizing.

We can all look around at the reports and view highlight videos. You are regurgitating things I've read around the basketball community.

Exactly where do your evaluating skills come from? Ex-player, ex-coach, etc.?

By the way, I thought your post was well written. So I want to compliment you on that before I go any further.

You make the accusation that anybody willing to move past Drummond is somehow an inferior individual incapable of making an educated decision. Wrong. Imapatient? Wrong.

I'm not an NBA scout, but I've been around long enough to take 'potential' with a grain of salt. Weighing out the pros and cons, considering the short history of his NBA career, one can make a conclusion either way. Too many fans become endeared to players. Been a long time since I have found a Piston player to give any loyalty to.

I snicker every time someone brings up Andre's age. Is that supposed to mean something? Some folks like you treat this young man as if he is a 5 year old with autism who is wrongfully criticized. He's a grown man who is legal to drink alcohol and who votes for politicians who run your government. Drop it! Most people are aware of his age.

Drummond is not the only player ever, or on this team, who has had to deal with a bevy of Coaches. Why does he receive this special excuse? I personally think it's beneficial to get instruction from different coaches. Not all coaches teach the same things. Sure there will be some contradictions, but if Andre has any slight intelligence, he'll be able to decipher which is more valuable.

I'm not going to sit here at a computer and try to convince others that they have no Fkn idea what they are thinking, because I have a different opinion than theirs... so, please give me the same courtesy. We will all speculate, often... when it comes to players.

For the record, I don't particularly care for Drummond. However, I'm not some young, snot-nosed, impatient kid who is part of today's 'entitlement' crowd, who wants his cake, now.

There are plenty of examples on both sides of the argument.

I've seen enough. I have my reasons... and they're not ludicrous. Slow feet, little to no offense outside of dunks, apathy, poor attitude (perceived), aloofness, poor 'man' defender, poor 'help-side' defender, lacks anticipation on players slashing into the paint, low IQ (perceived), shows limited attention span (perceived), poor instincts, picks up too many frustration fouls, selfish, doesn't make players around him better (virtually no Assists every game), part of losing culture since his arrival, weak pick-n-roll defender, and abysmal FT shooter. He can rebound, block shots and dunk a basketball... woot!

Note: When I used (perceived), it was meant to establish that the comment was from my POV... and nothing I can substantiate with facts.

We need a guy with a better skill set. Okafor provides that. He is showing that he gets better and better through each level of competition. AAU, Adidas tournaments, McDonald's Classic, college...

For your information, Mudiay has been criticized for his outside shooting.

Peace.