Jazzfan1971 and FloppyMoose's Offseason Preview - The Knicks

[hands11]

Knicks fans keep saying how can the team have a worse record this year than last year since they supposedly improved their roster? I say it's mostly because the rest of the East has improved drastically as well. Add to the fact that the team is implementing a new offensive system and having a rookie head coach, it's going to give them a rough start to the season.

However, I can definitely see the Knicks heading in the right direction with a no nonsense manager in Phil Jackson. I say wait a few years Knicks fans.

While true that the east improved, I wouldn't say it was drastic; more like a leveling of the playing field.

I do agree that learning a new system will take some time, but just having a coaching staff/management that has a plan and players who are motivated for different reasons should at least keep the Knicks hoving around the 8th seed. The Knicks lost most of their games because of bad coaching, poor execution, and terrible shooting. Those issues were mostly addressed in the off-season. They still have a ways to go before they can truely compete, though.

Yeah, the East got better but not like some make it sound. CLE clearly got a lot better. WIZ improved but not vastly. CHI fans are way over hyping that team. They reloaded, but I don't see it gelling before 1/4 of the season has passed at the earliest and maybe a good bit longer. BRK I see as improved but its going to take D Will and Lopez proving they are healthy. TOR fans think that team is more improved then I think they will be.

I actually think NY will surprise some fans. Battling for the last slot or slots is where I see them. They under performed last year and I like the roster better this year. Specially if Bargnani comes off the bench. Stoudemire finished the year well and so did the team over all. Phil and Derek Fisher are going to be really good for them. I don't think its going to take as long as some think for them to get the basics of the Triangle down. They won't be running it to its peak, but with the starters they have, they can work it out. I don't think anyone is going to be doing their own thing. Everyone is going to buy in and listen to Phil and Fisher. They both command that level of respect.

[Pattycakes]

If you had told me five years ago Andrea Bargnani would ever be starting over Amare Stoudamire in any shape, form, sport or capacity otherwise, I would have probably laughed myself into a seizure.

Oh how the mighty fall.

[hands11]

I must have missed teh boat on Cole Aldrich. Every time I saw him play in Portland was it? He looked like dogmeat. I have completely written him off as an NBA rotation player. Yet I see his name come up again and again from Knicks fans who think they have something there.

What am I missing?

I had my eye on him for a few years and was excited that the Knicks picked him up. He had a few indicators that I look for as far as cheap gambles go. 1) He was a highly touted prospect whose stock fell because he stayed an extra year in college and 2) his advanced stats in spot minutes (PER, defensive rating) and per minute stats (particularly on D) were very good. A few Sacto fans came on our board when the Knicks picked him up as well and were disappointed that the Kings let him go. They said that he showed much of what I'm about to say he showed.

Watching him with the Knicks over the course of the season confirmed what I suspected about him. He's an excellent, perhaps elite, rebounder and both per minute stats and the eye test will tell you that. People will cite his two big late season games but his rebounds/36 actually dropped (to 14.1 from 16+) when he received more playing time. He boxes out well and is quick and precise with the outlet pass. The Knicks were able to run much more with Cole in the game than with Bargs or even Chandler at center. He doesn't quite have the lower body strength to keep up with the big boys like Hibbert (Bargs actually does) but otherwise is a solid man defender and a heady help defender.

On offense, he doesn't have much of an NBA scoring game. A few basic post moves. Perhaps he can get the 8-10ft jumper down but otherwise will just get garbage points at high efficiency. But he doesn't force anything so he's not going to hurt you that much there. He's also a good passer and offensive rebounder.

He's never stood a test of sustained NBA minutes but he's also never failed a test of sustained NBA minutes. Having played well in spot minutes and larger reserve roles towards the end of the season, it stands to reason he'll get more of a chance with the front line so thin for NYK.

Also, PMFJ is reported to like him and did resign him.

Nothing wrong with having a big white dude on the blocks. He isn't starter quality but he defends the paint, rebounds and get put backs. Nice block of T Gibson at the end the 2nd video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jKpd27sy8g[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cBqOzqvNhA[/youtube]


http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... le-aldrich

16 rebounds 5 blocks against an athletic TOR team to end the year was a nice finish.

In the 11 games he played 10 or more minutes, NY was

Spoiler:

10-1 Is Cole the secret weapon

[hands11]

It appears that Knick's fans optimism around Jose Calderon is similar to the optimism surrounding Bargnani walking into last season.

Hold up now!!!

Didnt you hear.

Bargnani is going to be great in the triangle, because Phil is going to seated in Section 7, Row 7, Seat 7 for every game chanting ZEN mantras at Bargnani to make him unstoppable in the triangle.

As a back up S4/S5, he would be a great piece to have coming off the bench.

And if he played no more then 20 mins of so, he might even be able to give you 65-75 games for the season.

Dude has to find his 3 ball again though. He used to be able to shoot it at .372 But that was a little while ago. Who get worse at 3s like that at such a young age.

[Capn'O]

I must have missed teh boat on Cole Aldrich. Every time I saw him play in Portland was it? He looked like dogmeat. I have completely written him off as an NBA rotation player. Yet I see his name come up again and again from Knicks fans who think they have something there.

What am I missing?

I had my eye on him for a few years and was excited that the Knicks picked him up. He had a few indicators that I look for as far as cheap gambles go. 1) He was a highly touted prospect whose stock fell because he stayed an extra year in college and 2) his advanced stats in spot minutes (PER, defensive rating) and per minute stats (particularly on D) were very good. A few Sacto fans came on our board when the Knicks picked him up as well and were disappointed that the Kings let him go. They said that he showed much of what I'm about to say he showed.

Watching him with the Knicks over the course of the season confirmed what I suspected about him. He's an excellent, perhaps elite, rebounder and both per minute stats and the eye test will tell you that. People will cite his two big late season games but his rebounds/36 actually dropped (to 14.1 from 16+) when he received more playing time. He boxes out well and is quick and precise with the outlet pass. The Knicks were able to run much more with Cole in the game than with Bargs or even Chandler at center. He doesn't quite have the lower body strength to keep up with the big boys like Hibbert (Bargs actually does) but otherwise is a solid man defender and a heady help defender.

On offense, he doesn't have much of an NBA scoring game. A few basic post moves. Perhaps he can get the 8-10ft jumper down but otherwise will just get garbage points at high efficiency. But he doesn't force anything so he's not going to hurt you that much there. He's also a good passer and offensive rebounder.

He's never stood a test of sustained NBA minutes but he's also never failed a test of sustained NBA minutes. Having played well in spot minutes and larger reserve roles towards the end of the season, it stands to reason he'll get more of a chance with the front line so thin for NYK.

Also, PMFJ is reported to like him and did resign him.

Nothing wrong with having a big white dude on the blocks. He isn't starter quality but he defends the paint, rebounds and get put backs. Nice block of T Gibson at the end the 2nd video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jKpd27sy8g[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cBqOzqvNhA[/youtube]


http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... le-aldrich

16 rebounds 5 blocks against an athletic TOR team to end the year was a nice finish.

In the 11 games he played 10 or more minutes, NY was

Spoiler:

10-1 Is Cole the secret weapon

Are you Rasho Brezec's friendly alter ego?

[NYKAL]

I must have missed teh boat on Cole Aldrich. Every time I saw him play in Portland was it? He looked like dogmeat. I have completely written him off as an NBA rotation player. Yet I see his name come up again and again from Knicks fans who think they have something there.

What am I missing?

I had my eye on him for a few years and was excited that the Knicks picked him up. He had a few indicators that I look for as far as cheap gambles go. 1) He was a highly touted prospect whose stock fell because he stayed an extra year in college and 2) his advanced stats in spot minutes (PER, defensive rating) and per minute stats (particularly on D) were very good. A few Sacto fans came on our board when the Knicks picked him up as well and were disappointed that the Kings let him go. They said that he showed much of what I'm about to say he showed.

Watching him with the Knicks over the course of the season confirmed what I suspected about him. He's an excellent, perhaps elite, rebounder and both per minute stats and the eye test will tell you that. People will cite his two big late season games but his rebounds/36 actually dropped (to 14.1 from 16+) when he received more playing time. He boxes out well and is quick and precise with the outlet pass. The Knicks were able to run much more with Cole in the game than with Bargs or even Chandler at center. He doesn't quite have the lower body strength to keep up with the big boys like Hibbert (Bargs actually does) but otherwise is a solid man defender and a heady help defender.

On offense, he doesn't have much of an NBA scoring game. A few basic post moves. Perhaps he can get the 8-10ft jumper down but otherwise will just get garbage points at high efficiency. But he doesn't force anything so he's not going to hurt you that much there. He's also a good passer and offensive rebounder.

He's never stood a test of sustained NBA minutes but he's also never failed a test of sustained NBA minutes. Having played well in spot minutes and larger reserve roles towards the end of the season, it stands to reason he'll get more of a chance with the front line so thin for NYK.

Also, PMFJ is reported to like him and did resign him.

Had to And1 your post. Really well though out analysis...I'm not nearly the wordsmith most of you guys appear to be.

[NYKAL]

Knicks fans keep saying how can the team have a worse record this year than last year since they supposedly improved their roster? I say it's mostly because the rest of the East has improved drastically as well. Add to the fact that the team is implementing a new offensive system and having a rookie head coach, it's going to give them a rough start to the season.

However, I can definitely see the Knicks heading in the right direction with a no nonsense manager in Phil Jackson. I say wait a few years Knicks fans.

While true that the east improved, I wouldn't say it was drastic; more like a leveling of the playing field.

I do agree that learning a new system will take some time, but just having a coaching staff/management that has a plan and players who are motivated for different reasons should at least keep the Knicks hoving around the 8th seed. The Knicks lost most of their games because of bad coaching, poor execution, and terrible shooting. Those issues were mostly addressed in the off-season. They still have a ways to go before they can truely compete, though.

Yeah, the East got better but not like some make it sound. CLE clearly got a lot better. WIZ improved but not vastly. CHI fans are way over hyping that team. They reloaded, but I don't see it gelling before 1/4 of the season has passed at the earliest and maybe a good bit longer. BRK I see as improved but its going to take D Will and Lopez proving they are healthy. TOR fans think that team is more improved then I think they will be.

I actually think NY will surprise some fans. Battling for the last slot or slots is where I see them. They under performed last year and I like the roster better this year. Specially if Bargnani comes off the bench. Stoudemire finished the year well and so did the team over all. Phil and Derek Fisher are going to be really good for them. I don't think its going to take as long as some think for them to get the basics of the Triangle down. They won't be running it to its peak, but with the starters they have, they can work it out. I don't think anyone is going to be doing their own thing. Everyone is going to buy in and listen to Phil and Fisher. They both command that level of respect.

but people aren't taking into account that the Knicks 2nd leading scorer was Just coming off knee surgery, Tyson broke his leg early in the season, Felton looked like a dead man walking and as underwhelming as he was in previous seasons, the gun case took his head completely out of it. JR didn't regain his form until mid-season (hate him all you want, he balled for us when he got healthy) .

Also, once dumbass Woodson decided to put Amare in the starting lineup (2nd half of the season) the Knicks did far, far better. I have no doubt the team which narrowly missed the playoffs would have made it with an at least 500 record if not for the issues early in the season.

Take away those issues and one can easily say the Knicks have improved too.

[Hero]

OP is a moron.


All that needs to be said. Will bookmark for lolz in March

Looks like the OP wasn't so far off. Of course things could turn around in march..

[Prospect Dong]

I think this thread give an important insight into just how useful the "eye test" is if those eyes are attached to an enormous homer.

Also, it's typically best to ignore people who repeatedly claim it was all the coach's fault, for multiple coaches in a row.

[floppymoose]

I just want to go on the record. I think Fisher will be the best of the rookie coaches signed this year.

(sorry Snyder)

Kerr has everyone in the rear view mirror now. I'm pleasantly surprised!

[jazzfan1971]

Yeah, but, GS could probably not practice AT ALL or have anything other than a set rotation done via list and still win 45 games.

Not saying Kerr isn't doing a great job, just saying it's a lot easier to coach Curry and company than JR Smith and company.

[AussieCeltic]

Yeah, but, GS could probably not practice AT ALL or have anything other than a set rotation done via list and still win 45 games.

Not saying Kerr isn't doing a great job, just saying it's a lot easier to coach Curry and company than JR Smith and company.

Come on, it's night and day between the teams. Kerr hasn't put a foot wrong, while Fisher has already lost his locker room. Regardless of rosters heading in, Kerr is doing a much better job.

[Scalabrine]

Yeah, but, GS could probably not practice AT ALL or have anything other than a set rotation done via list and still win 45 games.

Not saying Kerr isn't doing a great job, just saying it's a lot easier to coach Curry and company than JR Smith and company.

Come on, it's night and day between the teams. Kerr hasn't put a foot wrong, while Fisher has already lost his locker room. Regardless of rosters heading in, Kerr is doing a much better job.

winning does that.

winning with:
Dalembert/Smith
Acy/Amare
Melo/Hardaway
Shumpert/JR Smith
Larkin/Prigioni

is much harder than a lineup of:
Bogut/Speights/Ezeli
Green/Barnes
Barnes/Iguodala
Thompson/Barbosa
Curry/Livingston

Its a huge reason why he chose GSW over NYK.

[jazzfan1971]

Yeah, but, GS could probably not practice AT ALL or have anything other than a set rotation done via list and still win 45 games.

Not saying Kerr isn't doing a great job, just saying it's a lot easier to coach Curry and company than JR Smith and company.

Come on, it's night and day between the teams. Kerr hasn't put a foot wrong, while Fisher has already lost his locker room. Regardless of rosters heading in, Kerr is doing a much better job.

Well, if Fisher has already lost his locker room he's probably the worst of the rookie coaches. Very disappointing if so.

[old rem]

New York Knicks

Projected Roster
--------------------

PG - Jose Calderon, Pablo Prigioni, Shane Larkin
SG - Iman Shumpert, JR Smith, Tim Hardaway Jr
SF - Carmelo Anthony, Travis Outlaw, Cleanthony Early, Quincy Acy
PF - Andrea Bargnani, Amare Stoudemire
C - Samuel Dalembert, Jason Smith, Cole Aldridge

Trading Block: I'm sure that the Knicks are looking to move JR Smith before he exercises his player option and screws with their cap room next offseason. For as far as that goes Calderon might be pretty easy to move as well. Not sure there are going to be a lot of takers though. Especially when the Knicks will be demanding expirings back.

Position battle: SG. Nobody knows or can tell me who will be starting at sG for the Knicks. I've got Shumpert here, but, it could just as easily be Smith or Hardaway.

Mystery Man: I'm gonna go with Phil Jackson. It's a mystery to me how he's going to get the group to run the triangle. It might be a thing of beauty. But, it could also resemble a Benny Hill sketch. I'll be very interested to see how JR Smith reacts in that offense.

Floppymusings:
Perhaps the worst rotation of bigs in the nba. Bringing in Calderon was wise. It will be another long year for Knicks fans. When Bargs and Amare are gone and you have another couple of good draft picks, that's when things could start to get interesting. What will Jackson be like as a GM? What will Fisher be like as a coach. Regardless, this is probably not the year you want to judge them by.

Jazzfanramblings:
My beloved Jazz are in the middle of a painful rebuild. After John and Karl retired the Jazz reloaded pretty fast with Boozer and Deron and kept on chugging. But, eventually the wheels fell off that and a complete rebuild was called for. So, they brought in Denis Lindsey to manage the rebuild. And one thing we hear in the media from Lindsey on a regular basis is that the Jazz are not going to be 'skipping any steps.'

It seems to me that the Knicks have been skipping steps for a dozen years or more now. Chasing every player that comes along with little thought given to salary structure, draft picks, or chemistry. Almost like a kid in a candy store with 2 bucks in his pocket, you are sure that kid is going to not set foot out of that store until he's spent every last penny. That's the Knicks of late to me.

In 2014 ESPN ranked all 30 NBA front offices. And the New York Knicks came in dead last. I honestly can't argue with that assessment. Since the turn of the century, 14 years now, the Knicks have averaged a meager 33.9 wins a season. This wouldn't be so damning except that the Knicks are located in a top 2 free agent destination and have some of the deepest pockets to spend on players (2nd in the league last year). They've got every advantage, yet they can't break free of mediocrity or worse.

To be fair, the Knicks may have turned a corner. They've brought in Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher. And they are clearing off a boatload of salary next season. But even then it's not like they will be flush with cap room. Just 3 players: Melo, Calderon, and Smith, could combine to eat up about 35 million in cap space next year. Even if they cut everyone else that's still 8 more cap holds that will push them up in the direction of 40 million. It's not pretty and given the Knicks history of free agent signings it could be worse than it seems.

Outside of Melo that roster looks like a collection of the dregs of the NBA. Guys who don't defend, are one dimensional, don't have their head screwed on straight, or are just too banged up to play. I think it's time for New York to take a step back and rebuild the right way, without skipping steps this time around. Hopefully Phil Jackson is up to the task and can face down Dolan when he decides he wants to spend his last 2 dollars on the next shiny piece of candy he sees.

Projected Record - 32/50

GOOD Take from 2 of RGM's sharpest. Given how tough it is to thrive in pro sports on a SHORT budget.. it's quite SPECIAL how badly the Knicks have done with 20 yrs of outspending EVERYONE. They are a BAD team loaded with guys who at SOME point..had value. Jackson...I assume..will add smarts to a front office that ain't as good as if a handfull of RGM guys did it as a hobby. I never made a dime off knowing stuff about hoops and I look at the poor Knicks... and OMG... How did y'all NOT see that screw up coming...again and again. With the $ spent...Larry ,Curly & Moe would have done as well.

Had the CBA NOT limited the FOLLY...the Knicks would no doubt have a payroll $30 mill higher...and a worse team. Jackson...should help..but Dolan has bypassed his GM before.

[Young_Star11]

They were awful last season (and frankly I wasn't sure how they won as many games as they did) and in no way did they get better in the off-season. Thought I expected them to be better than what they are.

I can't see Melo ever being able to be in a position to contend in the next 4.5 years.

[Nate505]

32 wins is pretty accurate. Phil's probably going to tell Fish who to sub in and out during the games via iPad or something. Coaching via proxy.

That projection seems generous now. The only thing making it still a reality is they play in the East.