Towns or Okafor or Mudiay or Russel?

[The_Special_One]

Kind of hysterical what Towns does at the end...

He's already learning with the pipe master.

[j4remi]

1. Okafor, 2. Towns, 3 Mudiay...I'm happy with any of 'em but happiest with Okafor. I think a goal of having at least one shutdown defender on the perimeter and a shot blocker next to Okafor isn't a long shot considering our capspace. If we got Okafor though, I'd make Wes Matthews one of my main targets and give Rondo a long look. Having Rondo, Matthews, Melo and Okafor would be incredible.

I think Mathews and Amir Johnson could be perfect fits around Okafor and Melo.

That's a nice combo, should be fairly affordable too. Calderon, Mathews, Melo, Okafor and AJ would be a formidable starting line-up.

[Johnny Hoops]

I kind of like Cauley-Stein folks.

I think with him you get a 8-10 year defensive center who is an elite athlete and shot-blocker.

He stands a chance of becoming an outstanding rebounder and could be an all-NBA caliber defender.

Give me that guy over a non-defensive, non-shot blocking low post guy.

I still need to watch more of Okafor and Towns but just saying Cauley-Stein is no slouch.

Right now I prefer Towns over Okafor -- seems to be better all-around player, lots of room to grow and will defend better, rebound better.

[K_ick_God]

I kind of like Cauley-Stein folks.

I think with him you get a 8-10 year defensive center who is an elite athlete and shot-blocker.

He stands a chance of becoming an outstanding rebounder and could be an all-NBA caliber defender.

Give me that guy over a non-defensive, non-shot blocking low post guy.

I still need to watch more of Okafor and Towns but just saying Cauley-Stein is no slouch.

Right now I prefer Towns over Okafor -- seems to be better all-around player, lots of room to grow and will defend better, rebound better.

He looks great but his ceiling is lower. More of a college standout maybe? We could end up with the next Dan Gadzuric.

[K_ick_God]

When a guy has that kind of size and that kind of a post up game at that age you draft him hands down and worry about the other stuff later, period. I'll go and get me lock down wings and a tenacious defender at the point and I'll challenge teams to get through my first line of defense.

Also if a guy has a very good feel for the game overall, even if just showing it offensively in college, it means he can learn proper D and positioning and eventually be more than adequate defensively as well. High basketball IQ should translate into him using his big body well at the other end too.

Eddy Curry did not have any IQ so that comparison is not fair. If Okafor is just talented offensively but does not understand the game, then he may suck completely as Curry did. But if he is not just gifted, and has IQ/drive/motor, then he will be good defensively too.

Al Jeff is not a fair comparison either because he really doesn't have a great feel. A guy like Z-Bo is similar. I guess Z does have mostly offensive IQ but that's rare, and I really think Z-Bo is better than advertised defensively. He has some smarts there -- much more so than a guy like Amar'e anyway.

[mpharris36]

I kind of like Cauley-Stein folks.

I think with him you get a 8-10 year defensive center who is an elite athlete and shot-blocker.

He stands a chance of becoming an outstanding rebounder and could be an all-NBA caliber defender.

Give me that guy over a non-defensive, non-shot blocking low post guy.

I still need to watch more of Okafor and Towns but just saying Cauley-Stein is no slouch.

Right now I prefer Towns over Okafor -- seems to be better all-around player, lots of room to grow and will defend better, rebound better.

He looks great but his ceiling is lower. More of a college standout maybe? We could end up with the next Dan Gadzuric.

nbadraft.net also said deshawn Stevenson could be the next Michael Jordan. So take there player comparison with a grain of salt.

He looks like a Tyson Chandler clone. I just don't think he has a back to the basket game or the offensive skill set (passing, high IQ) to play in the triangle. Now if we picked outside the top 5 for whatever reason he would probably come into play.

I don't see Dan Gadzuric though, nbadraft.net pulled that out of there azz

[K_ick_God]

I kind of like Cauley-Stein folks.

I think with him you get a 8-10 year defensive center who is an elite athlete and shot-blocker.

He stands a chance of becoming an outstanding rebounder and could be an all-NBA caliber defender.

Give me that guy over a non-defensive, non-shot blocking low post guy.

I still need to watch more of Okafor and Towns but just saying Cauley-Stein is no slouch.

Right now I prefer Towns over Okafor -- seems to be better all-around player, lots of room to grow and will defend better, rebound better.

He looks great but his ceiling is lower. More of a college standout maybe? We could end up with the next Dan Gadzuric.

nbadraft.net also said deshawn Stevenson could be the next Michael Jordan. So take there player comparison with a grain of salt.

He looks like a Tyson Chandler clone. I just don't think he has a back to the basket game or the offensive skill set (passing, high IQ) to play in the triangle. Now if we picked outside the top 5 for whatever reason he would probably come into play.

I don't see Dan Gadzuric though, nbadraft.net pulled that out of there azz

That's funny, I didn't read it on that site. I came up with it on my own as well, after watching Kentucky a few days ago. Bigger body than Dan or Tyson though.

[2010]

I kind of like Cauley-Stein folks.

I think with him you get a 8-10 year defensive center who is an elite athlete and shot-blocker.

He stands a chance of becoming an outstanding rebounder and could be an all-NBA caliber defender.

Give me that guy over a non-defensive, non-shot blocking low post guy.

I still need to watch more of Okafor and Towns but just saying Cauley-Stein is no slouch.

Right now I prefer Towns over Okafor -- seems to be better all-around player, lots of room to grow and will defend better, rebound better.

All indications are that Phil ideally would like a C with post skills and passing ability. Cauley-Stein doesn't really fit that mold. Which is why if we got a top 3 pick I don't think he'd be under consideration despite his defensive/rebounding skills. Now if we end up with a pick in the 5-10 range, that could change.

[Nazrmohamed]

I kind of like Cauley-Stein folks.

I think with him you get a 8-10 year defensive center who is an elite athlete and shot-blocker.

He stands a chance of becoming an outstanding rebounder and could be an all-NBA caliber defender.

Give me that guy over a non-defensive, non-shot blocking low post guy.

I still need to watch more of Okafor and Towns but just saying Cauley-Stein is no slouch.

Right now I prefer Towns over Okafor -- seems to be better all-around player, lots of room to grow and will defend better, rebound better.

He looks great but his ceiling is lower. More of a college standout maybe? We could end up with the next Dan Gadzuric.

I think better than that. I think more like the C we just traded and labeled a cancer for no reason. I don't think Phil cares for the whole athletic, defender, rebounder with limited offensive skills except assisted lobs and allyoops. And I think that's what Stein would be at this level. He wants a dump it down and operate type of C and that's Knicks or Towns

[2010]

Can anyone runoff a few examples of bigs (C's/PF's) who showed no defensive instincts or low defensive IQ who got better and became rim protectors or someone you could rely on as a last line of defense as their career evolved?

People kill Amar'e and Bargnani for the defense, or lack thereof around here yet they're talking up Okafor. I would need evidence in case study to believe a tiger can just change it's stripes defensively.

And before anyone says they can settle for him just becoming an adequate post-defender if he lacks the ability to play pick and roll defense, become a help defender, rim protector, or rebound out of his area, then why do/did you currently kill Amar'e and Bargs?

[NoLayupRule]

Can anyone runoff a few examples of bigs (C's/PF's) who showed no defensive instincts or low defensive IQ who got better and became rim protectors or someone you could rely on as a last line of defense as their career evolved?

People kill Amar'e and Bargnani for the defense, or lack thereof around here yet they're talking up Okafor. I would need evidence in case study to believe a tiger can just change it's stripes defensively.

And before anyone says they can settle for him just becoming an adequate post-defender if he lacks the ability to play pick and roll defense, become a help defender, rim protector, or rebound out of his area, then why do/did you currently kill Amar'e and Bargs?

very fair

Id say there are players who come into the NBA not playing any D because they don't have to but then learn to

But I can't think of any worth mentioning

Id be much more comfortable teaching a great defender to become a better scorer than the other way around

If we are lucky enough to get the top pick and that pick doesn't play both sides of the floor Ill be pretty damn angry

[RHODEY]

Can anyone runoff a few examples of bigs (C's/PF's) who showed no defensive instincts or low defensive IQ who got better and became rim protectors or someone you could rely on as a last line of defense as their career evolved?

I can't...

[NoLayupRule]

its also quite possible that the knicks use the #1 overall - again if we are lucky enough - to move for a top level player like the Cavs did


Okafor for Noah would be good for me.


I know, I know. But it would be nice

[IAmTheBest]

its also quite possible that the knicks use the #1 overall - again if we are lucky enough - to move for a top level player like the Cavs did


Okafor for Noah would be good for me.


I know, I know. But it would be nice

No

[moocow007]

Can anyone runoff a few examples of bigs (C's/PF's) who showed no defensive instincts or low defensive IQ who got better and became rim protectors or someone you could rely on as a last line of defense as their career evolved?

People kill Amar'e and Bargnani for the defense, or lack thereof around here yet they're talking up Okafor. I would need evidence in case study to believe a tiger can just change it's stripes defensively.

And before anyone says they can settle for him just becoming an adequate post-defender if he lacks the ability to play pick and roll defense, become a help defender, rim protector, or rebound out of his area, then why do/did you currently kill Amar'e and Bargs?

Hmm...hard to say. Most of the guys I can think of are either backups or were just freakishly athletic that you can throw him out there and expect his athleticism to block shots and do stuff on the defensive end to be disruptive. And most of their defensive impact was with blocking shots and otherwise cheap shoting people.

Few examples are: our very own Sam I Am when he first came into the league with Philly (rarely knew where he should be but was blocking the **** out of the ball cause of his crazy length/speed/athleticism), the current clown prince of basketball (no it's not JR Smith) Javale McGee (once considered a potential defensive monster) and general NBA thug Ryan Hollins (who is always among the NBA's top group of blocks per minute guys). Low IQ guys but extremely athletic. Kinda the opposite of Okafor.

I don't recall how defensively strong Crazy Eyes Kurt Thomas was at Texas Christian but he was primarily known as an offensive player (believe it or not) in college. Led the NCAA in scoring at something like 29ppg. So that MAY be an example...assuming Thomas really wasn't a particularly good defender in college. He turned into a great defender in the NBA. In fact, yeah I seem to recall the big concern with Thomas coming out of college was that they didn't think he'd be able to score in the NBA (like he did in college) and didn't have a great deal of other things (like defense) to fall back on.

[moocow007]

its also quite possible that the knicks use the #1 overall - again if we are lucky enough - to move for a top level player like the Cavs did


Okafor for Noah would be good for me.


I know, I know. But it would be nice

I would trade Okafor for Noah in a second if not for the likelihood that Noah's got bone on bone in his knee.

[TheBigBoss]

its also quite possible that the knicks use the #1 overall - again if we are lucky enough - to move for a top level player like the Cavs did


Okafor for Noah would be good for me.


I know, I know. But it would be nice

We could just sign Noah in 2016, no need to trade our pick. The only way I trade the pick is if Gasol and LMA decide they want to team up on the Knicks, I would trade the pick in a sign and trade for Aldridge after signing Marc.

[moocow007]

its also quite possible that the knicks use the #1 overall - again if we are lucky enough - to move for a top level player like the Cavs did


Okafor for Noah would be good for me.


I know, I know. But it would be nice

We could just sign Noah in 2016, no need to trade our pick. The only way I trade the pick is if Gasol and LMA decide they want to team up on the Knicks, I would trade the pick in a sign and trade for Aldridge after signing Marc.

Yes, that too.

[2010]

Can anyone runoff a few examples of bigs (C's/PF's) who showed no defensive instincts or low defensive IQ who got better and became rim protectors or someone you could rely on as a last line of defense as their career evolved?

People kill Amar'e and Bargnani for the defense, or lack thereof around here yet they're talking up Okafor. I would need evidence in case study to believe a tiger can just change it's stripes defensively.

And before anyone says they can settle for him just becoming an adequate post-defender if he lacks the ability to play pick and roll defense, become a help defender, rim protector, or rebound out of his area, then why do/did you currently kill Amar'e and Bargs?

Hmm...hard to say. Most of the guys I can think of are either backups or were just freakishly athletic that you can throw him out there and expect his athleticism to block shots and do stuff on the defensive end to be disruptive. And most of their defensive impact was with blocking shots and otherwise cheap shoting people.

Few examples are: our very own Sam I Am when he first came into the league with Philly (rarely knew where he should be but was blocking the **** out of the ball cause of his crazy length/speed/athleticism), the current clown prince of basketball (no it's not JR Smith) Javale McGee (once considered a potential defensive monster) and general NBA thug Ryan Hollins (who is always among the NBA's top group of blocks per minute guys). Low IQ guys but extremely athletic. Kinda the opposite of Okafor.

I don't recall how defensively strong Crazy Eyes Kurt Thomas was at Texas Christian but he was primarily known as an offensive player (believe it or not) in college. Led the NCAA in scoring at something like 29ppg. So that MAY be an example...assuming Thomas really wasn't a particularly good defender in college. He turned into a great defender in the NBA. In fact, yeah I seem to recall the big concern with Thomas coming out of college was that they didn't think he'd be able to score in the NBA (like he did in college) and didn't have a great deal of other things (like defense) to fall back on.

Kinda hard to tell with Kurt. I wasn't old enough to watch him play in college but his Jr and Sr seasons (the only seasons he got starters minutes), he averaged 2.6 and 2.4 blocks per game respectively. So considering that tally, I'd venture to say he had pretty good defensive instincts already and provided some rim protection. He also averaged 14.6 rebounds per game his senior year.

I think what happened with Kurt was when he hit the NBA and suffered those two big ankle injuries it probably curbed some of his athleticism (which he was never the biggest athletic guy anyway) thus making him focus more on post defense, positioning, and drawing charges over shotblocking and rim protection post-injury. He still remained a great help-defender which leads me to believe he probably always had high defensive IQ.

But your findings seem legit. Low IQ hustle guys with great athleticism are more likely to improve defensively than a limited athlete who also has low defensive IQ and bad instincts.

I think it's a reach to assume Okafor is going to improve his defensive instincts, which are currently lacking. If he showed good timing as a shotblocker and help defender but lacked IQ in defending the pick and roll, that'd be one thing. But Okafor lacks defensive instincts across the board. Limited shotblocking instincts, bad help defender, bad defending the pick and roll, doesn't rebound outside of his area, doesn't show a high motor defensively, limited athleticism.

I'd prefer to put my money on Towns, since he plays both side of the ball. Even if he takes a season or 2 longer to get there. But that's just me. And I'm not saying I wouldn't take Okafor (cuz I would). I'm just saying if they're both there, I prefer Towns. And if all 3 are there, I prefer Mudiay over both bigs.

[K_ick_God]

its also quite possible that the knicks use the #1 overall - again if we are lucky enough - to move for a top level player like the Cavs did


Okafor for Noah would be good for me.


I know, I know. But it would be nice

No

No