Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit?

[Magicfn1]

#FireJV

[Kev_bundles]

Keep him if we win more then 33 games this season and were in the playoff race


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[NickAnderson]

Based on the talent we have, we're right about where I expected us to be record-wise. We are one of the youngest teams in the league, with a relatively weak bench. We have no superstars, no 20ppg scorers, no defensive anchors. Plus, our schedule has been brutal.

But it's all vaughns fault.

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[Orlwillbeback]

this thread was made before this willie green debacle...

[tooler]

this thread was made before this willie green debacle...

We shouldn't have waited abit.

[MagicFan32]

With a good coach this would be a .500 team, how many double digit leads have we blown?
it shows that this dude cannot counter opposing coaches adjustments for ****. our entire offense is either dump into the post or pick and roll. when elf penetrates these guys have no idea where to cut, it's unreal.

[londoncollin]

I've always been on the "wait for the players to get good before seeing what we've got in JV" but in this third year I was really hoping to see something that I'm just not seeing right now. I'm not an overreacter like a lot of people on this board. Like I understand the ups and downs of a growing, rebuilding team. We're going to see highs and lows, and that's true of a brand new coach too. But this year I'm really starting to think that JV is an assistant and not a head coach.

A big thing is the offense. Throughout the offseason we kept hearing about pace; he wanted to play an uptempo style of basketball. We're not really seeing that. Of course a lot of this on the players, as good defense disrupts the offensive game plan. But I think the halfcourt isn't really being played the best way to maximize the players we have.

In the very first half of the first game of preseason basketball, when the ball was moving around the perimeter, I remember thinking "We've got something here. And we're doing it without Frye and Dipo." That disappeared in the second half of that game, and I haven't seen anything similar since. It's almost like we reverted back to the offense we've played since Vaughn's been here.

Looking at the personnel, we have a team of ball movers. I don't even really need to talk about Elf here. But Dipo, while he's not a point guard, is a good passer. Playing the point helped him out in that aspect of his game last season, but I was looking forward to him moving back to his natural position this year. Vuc is great at passing in the post, and Frye was a crucial part of the surprisingly great Suns offense last year. Looking at the starting lineup, or what should be the starting lineup (Elf/Vic/Harris/Frye/Vuc), Harris is maybe the weakest passer, and he's not that bad at it. Then you have guys like O'Quinn, AG, and Fournier on the bench, who are both excellent passers at their positions.

When you're eight deep with guys who are at the worst decent passers you should capitalize on that. I love running the offense down low with Vuc; he's looked great carrying a big offensive load. But I'd love to see more ball movement, or at least more creativity. I'd like to see Vuc stretching the floor more, taking shot changers out of the paint. He's not a knockdown shooter, but he's rangey and we could be doing more with him (true of virtually everybody) I know that the team is still growing, our core is extremely young, and as they grow and get better we'll see better basketball. But I'm still not convinced that the offense Vaughn has installed is one that will maximize the guys we have.

That kind of leads me to Vaughn's weird 2K lineups with Willie Green playing the three and stuff like that. Even the most optimistic Magic fans didn't expect anything more than making a surprising 8th seed push. So I don't mind seeing some experimentation with the lineups, particularly with injuries. But experiment the right way. With the right players. See if Nicholson can play a Vuc-esque role off the bench. If guys are playing out of position, try Harkless as a small four. I'm not convinced that either of those things would work; they probably wouldn't, being honest. But I'd rather see what a 6'10" Harkless could do slashing against bigger defenders, and not guys in their 30s playing weird positions.

And of course it's easier for me, sitting at home, to make out of the box suggestions. But Vaughn is doing his own weird stuff, so it's not like he's not willing. If he's experimenting I'd much rather see him trying to get the most out of our young players, putting them in new situations where they could find success, and not seeing what all a 33 year old Willie Green can bring to the table.

Honestly, I'm excited by a lot of what I've seen. But adding it all up, none of it is will coaching. It's all with our players potential. And I'm not really seeing the same with Vaughn anymore.

I'm still not on the "fire vaughn" bandwagon and am not freaking out, but I'm just not sure if he's ever going to show us what we all want to see.

[ChosenSavior]

I've always been on the "wait for the players to get good before seeing what we've got in JV" but in this third year I was really hoping to see something that I'm just not seeing right now. I'm not an overreacter like a lot of people on this board. Like I understand the ups and downs of a growing, rebuilding team. We're going to see highs and lows, and that's true of a brand new coach too. But this year I'm really starting to think that JV is an assistant and not a head coach.

A big thing is the offense. Throughout the offseason we kept hearing about pace; he wanted to play an uptempo style of basketball. We're not really seeing that. Of course a lot of this on the players, as good defense disrupts the offensive game plan. But I think the halfcourt isn't really being played the best way to maximize the players we have.

In the very first half of the first game of preseason basketball, when the ball was moving around the perimeter, I remember thinking "We've got something here. And we're doing it without Frye and Dipo." That disappeared in the second half of that game, and I haven't seen anything similar since. It's almost like we reverted back to the offense we've played since Vaughn's been here.

Looking at the personnel, we have a team of ball movers. I don't even really need to talk about Elf here. But Dipo, while he's not a point guard, is a good passer. Playing the point helped him out in that aspect of his game last season, but I was looking forward to him moving back to his natural position this year. Vuc is great at passing in the post, and Frye was a crucial part of the surprisingly great Suns offense last year. Looking at the starting lineup, or what should be the starting lineup (Elf/Vic/Harris/Frye/Vuc), Harris is maybe the weakest passer, and he's not that bad at it. Then you have guys like O'Quinn, AG, and Fournier on the bench, who are both excellent passers at their positions.

When you're eight deep with guys who are at the worst decent passers you should capitalize on that. I love running the offense down low with Vuc; he's looked great carrying a big offensive load. But I'd love to see more ball movement, or at least more creativity. I'd like to see Vuc stretching the floor more, taking shot changers out of the paint. He's not a knockdown shooter, but he's rangey and we could be doing more with him (true of virtually everybody) I know that the team is still growing, our core is extremely young, and as they grow and get better we'll see better basketball. But I'm still not convinced that the offense Vaughn has installed is one that will maximize the guys we have.

That kind of leads me to Vaughn's weird 2K lineups with Willie Green playing the three and stuff like that. Even the most optimistic Magic fans didn't expect anything more than making a surprising 8th seed push. So I don't mind seeing some experimentation with the lineups, particularly with injuries. But experiment the right way. With the right players. See if Nicholson can play a Vuc-esque role off the bench. If guys are playing out of position, try Harkless as a small four. I'm not convinced that either of those things would work; they probably wouldn't, being honest. But I'd rather see what a 6'10" Harkless could do slashing against bigger defenders, and not guys in their 30s playing weird positions.

And of course it's easier for me, sitting at home, to make out of the box suggestions. But Vaughn is doing his own weird stuff, so it's not like he's not willing. If he's experimenting I'd much rather see him trying to get the most out of our young players, putting them in new situations where they could find success, and not seeing what all a 33 year old Willie Green can bring to the table.

Honestly, I'm excited by a lot of what I've seen. But adding it all up, none of it is will coaching. It's all with our players potential. And I'm not really seeing the same with Vaughn anymore.

I'm still not on the "fire vaughn" bandwagon and am not freaking out, but I'm just not sure if he's ever going to show us what we all want to see.

This is such an excellent post. I feel the same way even though my patience with Jacque is about gone at this point. I'm trying not to overreact but his coaching and overall philosophy make it hard not to.

[MagicHolland]

I've always been on the "wait for the players to get good before seeing what we've got in JV" but in this third year I was really hoping to see something that I'm just not seeing right now. I'm not an overreacter like a lot of people on this board. Like I understand the ups and downs of a growing, rebuilding team. We're going to see highs and lows, and that's true of a brand new coach too. But this year I'm really starting to think that JV is an assistant and not a head coach.

A big thing is the offense. Throughout the offseason we kept hearing about pace; he wanted to play an uptempo style of basketball. We're not really seeing that. Of course a lot of this on the players, as good defense disrupts the offensive game plan. But I think the halfcourt isn't really being played the best way to maximize the players we have.

In the very first half of the first game of preseason basketball, when the ball was moving around the perimeter, I remember thinking "We've got something here. And we're doing it without Frye and Dipo." That disappeared in the second half of that game, and I haven't seen anything similar since. It's almost like we reverted back to the offense we've played since Vaughn's been here.

Looking at the personnel, we have a team of ball movers. I don't even really need to talk about Elf here. But Dipo, while he's not a point guard, is a good passer. Playing the point helped him out in that aspect of his game last season, but I was looking forward to him moving back to his natural position this year. Vuc is great at passing in the post, and Frye was a crucial part of the surprisingly great Suns offense last year. Looking at the starting lineup, or what should be the starting lineup (Elf/Vic/Harris/Frye/Vuc), Harris is maybe the weakest passer, and he's not that bad at it. Then you have guys like O'Quinn, AG, and Fournier on the bench, who are both excellent passers at their positions.

When you're eight deep with guys who are at the worst decent passers you should capitalize on that. I love running the offense down low with Vuc; he's looked great carrying a big offensive load. But I'd love to see more ball movement, or at least more creativity. I'd like to see Vuc stretching the floor more, taking shot changers out of the paint. He's not a knockdown shooter, but he's rangey and we could be doing more with him (true of virtually everybody) I know that the team is still growing, our core is extremely young, and as they grow and get better we'll see better basketball. But I'm still not convinced that the offense Vaughn has installed is one that will maximize the guys we have.

That kind of leads me to Vaughn's weird 2K lineups with Willie Green playing the three and stuff like that. Even the most optimistic Magic fans didn't expect anything more than making a surprising 8th seed push. So I don't mind seeing some experimentation with the lineups, particularly with injuries. But experiment the right way. With the right players. See if Nicholson can play a Vuc-esque role off the bench. If guys are playing out of position, try Harkless as a small four. I'm not convinced that either of those things would work; they probably wouldn't, being honest. But I'd rather see what a 6'10" Harkless could do slashing against bigger defenders, and not guys in their 30s playing weird positions.

And of course it's easier for me, sitting at home, to make out of the box suggestions. But Vaughn is doing his own weird stuff, so it's not like he's not willing. If he's experimenting I'd much rather see him trying to get the most out of our young players, putting them in new situations where they could find success, and not seeing what all a 33 year old Willie Green can bring to the table.

Honestly, I'm excited by a lot of what I've seen. But adding it all up, none of it is will coaching. It's all with our players potential. And I'm not really seeing the same with Vaughn anymore.

I'm still not on the "fire vaughn" bandwagon and am not freaking out, but I'm just not sure if he's ever going to show us what we all want to see.

This is such an excellent post. I feel the same way even though my patience with Jacque is about gone at this point. I'm trying not to overreact but his coaching and overall philosophy make it hard not to.

Basically what it comes down to for me is that I feel like our players are developing at a faster pace than our head coach. I'm patient, I know that a rebuild will take time. But at times it feels like our HC is holding us back right now and I don't like it one bit..

[londoncollin]

Kindaaaa wish I waited to post that.

[drsd]

Clearly Coach Vaughn needs an immediate extension after the Hawks win.


..

[ucfmay2000]

Clearly Coach Vaughn needs an immediate extension after the Hawks win.

Extension to coach orlando NBA D-League Bayhawks.
..

[drsd]

Extension to coach orlando NBA D-League Bayhawks.
..

This proposes that Coach Vaughn is capable of developing young talent. I am not sure most fans agree with that notion.

[MagicMadness]

Kindaaaa wish I waited to post that.

90% of people's opinions here change by the game.

[drsd]

90% of people's opinions here change by the game.

Fire Vaughn on the spot. His decision to bench Harkless for Oladipo, and bring Vučević in for Payton proved decisive in the 4th to "assure" the loss. How can Coach Vaughn replace an untested rookie and a 12th-man bench player with two marginal All Stars to close out the game???? Terrible coaching !!!


..

[londoncollin]

Kindaaaa wish I waited to post that.

90% of people's opinions here change by the game.

Well, I mean I never said I wanted to fire JV. Just that he's losing me. And he still is. I stand by that post. Was more commenting on the timing of it.

I even said that I wasn't fickle.

[didak]

Surely now is the time to re-hash our planning starting with the coach. Unacceptable losses like tonight shouldn't be tolerated.

[Orlwillbeback]

Surely now is the time to re-hash our planning starting with the coach. Unacceptable losses like tonight shouldn't be tolerated.

agreed. something is very wrong if you lose to a d league team. That should never happen, you should win by superior talent alone, which the magic clearly do not have.

[NickAnderson]

Spoiled brats I tell ya

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[applash]

http://isjacquestillcoach.com/