Lopez for Reggie Jackson falls apart; Nets acquire Thad Young for KG (UPDATE: Page 58)

[F3LON]

Big Al and Brook together would be an awful big man duo.

I don't see a world where we take on Lopez and aren't sending out Al. A trade of JJ + Lopez for a core of Lance + Al with other pieces thrown in on both sides would seem to be necessary if we are taking Brook.

I could see a JJ + Lopez trade for Big Al and Lance. Not sure what additional pieces move on both sides because I'm not sure the Nets would want to forgo much more than that trade straight up. Maybe we throw in Karasev (but he's liked by management), possibly Markel Brown.

I'd love to see what a realistic trade is.

As much as I love Joe Jesus, if packaging him with Lopez means we lose Lopez, get Lance and get a defensive big man... I'm all for it


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I want to see Lance and JJ on the same team. I think JJ proved vs Charlotte that he doesnt need to dominate the ball in order to be effective. He was playing mostly as a catch and shoot player and he thrived. DWill is also very good off the ball. He has played well next to both Watson and Livingston in his tenure as a Net.

Lopez is the main reason why this team doesnt flow on offense. Many sabermeterics feel that posting up is the least efficient play in basketball. Bigs like Garnett, Mirza and Jefferson are able to hit mid range jumpshots which nullify traditional defenses who funnel the ball inside to their shot blockers.

[MrDollarBills]

Lance gets a decent amount of assists, I can see it working because he's a willing passer.

get it done.

[Jajwanda]

I think L.A. would certainly want Williams but knowing their obsession with Cs they'll probably ask for Lopez.

[jeff1624]

I want to see Lance and JJ on the same team. I think JJ proved vs Charlotte that he doesnt need to dominate the ball in order to be effective. He was playing mostly as a catch and shoot player and he thrived. DWill is also very good off the ball. He has played well next to both Watson and Livingston in his tenure as a Net.

Lopez is the main reason why this team doesnt flow on offense. Many sabermeterics feel that posting up is the least efficient play in basketball. Bigs like Garnett, Mirza and Jefferson are able to hit mid range jumpshots which nullify traditional defenses who funnel the ball inside to their shot blockers.

There are so many things wrong with this post...

I want to see Lance and JJ on the same team. I think JJ proved vs Charlotte that he doesnt need to dominate the ball in order to be effective.He was playing mostly as a catch and shoot player and he thrived.

Joe is just as guilty of stopping the ball as Lopez is. We ALL dream of Joe handling the ball less and being more open to catch and shoot situations but he refuses for some reason.

DWill is also very good off the ball. He has played well next to both Watson and Livingston in his tenure as a Net.

I'd rather Deron handle the ball MORE, not less. Deron's effectiveness would diminish if we were to add ANOTHER ball handler.

Lopez is the main reason why this team doesnt flow on offense.

We were the 8th best offensive team in the NBA during the 12-13 season and that was with lopez as the first option on most nights. We were 14th last season without Brook. LOL at this notion that Brook is the main reason we can't score efficiently. He has the same TS% as Joe Johnson this year and that's with his mediocre start. If you want to talk about ball movement, then fine, he is a big reason for our low assists ratio... but if you want a reason why our offense sucks? It's the teams inability to hit open shots. And before you mention the bobcats game where we were automatic from three, look at the other three games Lopez didn't play in:

From three:

Versus Cleveland: 4-19
Versus Chicago: 3-14
Versus Philly: 5-20

The offense will look s****y anytime our shooters miss open shots. Bogs, mirza, Deron, Joe and Anderson have all been s****y from downtown. Brook's struggles are a reason why our offense has sucked, but it's laughable to point to him as the main reason.

Many sabermeterics feel that posting up is the least efficient play in basketball.

LOL What?! That and the three point shot are the MOST efficient. How is a shot from 10 feet or closer the LEAST efficient shot in the NBA?!?! The least efficient is the 20 footer your favorite players Jack and Joe take. Give me ONE source where posting up is mentioned as the least efficient shot.

Bigs like Garnett, Mirza and Jefferson are able to hit mid range jumpshots which nullify traditional defenses who funnel the ball inside to their shot blockers.

Again... What??

Al Jefferson and Brook shoot roughly the same percentage from all areas from the floor throughout their careers (with Brook being a tad better from beyond 10 feet). Seriously, they're damn near identical, yet for some reason you're arguing that Jefferson would be better here because he can hit the midranger and Brook can't? Not to mention that most of us criticize him because he sometimes falls in love with the outside shot instead of going to what he excels at which is low post scoring and drawing fouls, yet somehow low post scoring is a negative? I'm confused.

Oh, and Al is heralded as one of the premier low post scorers in the league, yet you want tot trade for him because Lopez's low post scoring is hurting the team. What?


And before people jump in and call me a Lopez homer/apologist... I actually agree and think it's time for a change and that we SHOULD move him. Though trading him for Jefferson would be hilarious because that would just be a lateral move at best them being so similar and all.Not to mention the fact that Utah already tried a Jefferson/Deron duo and it failed miserably. They can't play together.

[Keith Van Horn]

Big Al and Brook together would be an awful big man duo.

that wouldn't be our problem to worry about it, and maybe that's what they want

[Keith Van Horn]

Even though I had gone on record saying I would trade JJ for Stephenson + more, I didn't realize Charlotte might be enticed by Lopez. With that said, I would MUCH rather move Brook for Lance as long as no draft picks are required to make the trade happen.

Doing a trade like
Lance + Henderson (Duke guy, King is probably drooling for him) for Lopez + Anderson
would be total win for the Nets.

I also like the idea of making Lance our 6th man too, the high energy player off the bench. He could be a huge cog for our team, and then he can play big minutes down the stretch if we need it.

Depth chart would look something like this potentially:

Williams / Jack / Morris
Henderson / Stephenson / Karasev
Johnson / Bogie / Brown
Teletovic / Jefferson / Davies
Garnett / Plumlee / Jordan

To me, this becomes a much better and capable team. You could really see the potential for each player showcasing their strengths much more.

You can let the offense run through Johnson and Williams to start, with shooters like Henderson and Teletovic in there to help. Then you have Garnett anchoring the paint, like he should be, which makes a lot of sense.... most of us agree on this.

Then you bring in Lance and Mase off the bench halfway through the first, and then Jack and Jefferson before the quarter ends. Let Joe ride out the first if he's playing well. Start the second quarter with all the reserves, and halfway through the second start bringing in the starters again to close out the half. But the pace at which our second unit would play with would be awesome considering how they're all younger and can run the floor.

Plus this team allows us to play small if we need to... putting Tele, KG, or Mase at center, then putting Bogie or Johnson at the 4. It worked last year, but I don't think we would need to play small with such a more balanced lineup.

I don't know who else agrees with this, but if we could make this happen, I would love to see how things would play out. Having Lance would also ease off the pressure of the 2016 off season some.

[CalamityX12]

Yea I wouldn't want to take Al back at all.... I'd rather keep brook cuz I'm a loyalyst that way...

But ship his ass for lance n filler... I'm good lol

[Prokorov]

Wtf is Brooklyn stalling??? If we can do this without moving JJ(n dwill duh) get it done

Lance for Brook would be an absolute slam dunk! they dont have anyone bad enough as a contract to make the deal not worth it.

We get an excellent return age/talent wise for brook while removing all the injury risk and getting a piece that fits our other guys better... and if we can do it while retaining johnson we also become basically a playoff lock while getting some guys who fit long term.

PLEASE let this happen!

[Born_Ready]

Joe Johnson is my favorite player in the league. He has been my favorite player since I first watched him back at UOA. I've been a Nets fan my whole life (Uncle forced me to watch and go to games when I went back east to visit as a youngin'). I felt like Joe Johnson landing on the Nets was the perfect fit-- not to mention he was now apart of my favorite team. While some wavier back and forth with their fandom for Joe, he will forever be my favorite player-- next to Mike.

With all that said, if losing Joe Johnson to get younger and better defensively in the process, I'm all for it. If the rumors are true about acquiring Lance and Al Jefferson for Johnson + Brooke Lopez... I think it's a no brainer for the Nets to push for this deal. Jefferson is the kind of big man Hollins covets, and Stephenson is a streaky shooter, but can get hot at any second. Not to mention he's younger.

It would pain me to see Joe leave. However, I was a fan before his arrival, I shall remain a fan if he departs. I just want to see this team finally being in the conversation of being an elite team in the East.

If it's Lance for Brooke ONLY, then disregard my post.

[Prokorov]

Idk, I guess I could be fooling myself in saying the distractions that lance would bring are overblown....

I think if he's out of Charlotte who has underperformed n go to his hometown with kg, a distributing pg in dwill n another scorer in JJ, I think he'll be much more interested...

Maybe he n George last yr just were at odds.

can the distractions really get any worse though? i mean we already have guys who never talk alling out the team, a player basically forcing a trade out of town, and a coach calling out everyone under the sun.

i feel like any distractions lance brings are going to be way overshadowed by the energ he would provide and the shot in the arm factor.

and if he doesnt work out, he has just 1 more year as the alst year of his deal is a team option.

[Prokorov]

I just said this in the other thread LOL.

If it's main components are Lopez for Lance, you do it in a heartbeat.

While I want the cap space, I truly fear what this team would become if Lance is the #1 or #2 option. Let him play the Kenyon Martin role of a great role player and crowd favorite. Do not give him the keys to the franchise.

Yes I like this idea a lot.

Deron
Lance
Joe
Mirza
KG

I think that's a very well balanced and solid starting 5. You got shooters to open the floor, which will open driving lanes for Lance. His athleticim would be great in the starting 5 as well. Plus there's good passers in there to find Lance cutting off ball, etc.

there are other options as well... we could very well get mavin williams too to match salary or another player ot match if the trade is expanded to 3 teams.

we could also move mirza for a more traditional big to fit the team better. maybe mirza + whomever for david west or boozer?

Deron
Lance
JJ
West or Boozer
KG

I like that team alot. and we would have tons of shooting, spacing would be a non issue

[kerry kittles]

I'm in the move Lopez camp. Don't think he fits that well with the team overall. There were comments acknowledging that from the locker room after the last game.

The scenarios below I think can work:

Option A: (discussed a bunch already - assuming the Hornets like Brook)
Lance + marvin Williams for Lopez

Option b (assuming they don't want Brook. Its looking like they just want to cut ties with Lance based on the Woj piece)

Nets send out: Markell Brown, Brook Lopez
Receive: Lance Stephenson, Mavin Williams

Lakers send out: Jeremy Lin, Steve Nash
Lakers receive: Brook Lopez, Markell Brown

Charlotte sends: Lance stephenson, Marvin Williams
Charlotte receives: Jeremy Lin, Steve Nash

Why: lakers need a center. Their fans were here expressing interest in him. It just pushes them out a year. Jordan Hill is a good player alongside him.
Charlotte dumps $17 million - giving them significant cap space this summer.

I think in both options they can make a second move to Al Jefferson. Maybe some Perkins + filler. They can tank - already got a decent spot in the tank standings and work on developing Vonleh and Zeller

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

Not in favor of Lance, myself. I somehow see too many problems from the neck up.

[F3LON]

I want to see Lance and JJ on the same team. I think JJ proved vs Charlotte that he doesnt need to dominate the ball in order to be effective.He was playing mostly as a catch and shoot player and he thrived.

Joe is just as guilty of stopping the ball as Lopez is. We ALL dream of Joe handling the ball less and being more open to catch and shoot situations but he refuses for some reason.

Here we go.

Joe is always going to ISO on a good amount of his possessions. It all depends on when he does it. IF there are 7 seconds or less in the shot clock every team, not just the Nets, give the ball to their best 1 on 1 player and clear out. That happens alot because the Nets take 8-12 seconds trying to get the ball into Lopez. When he isnt on the floor the offense starts much earlier and there is enough time to make multiple passes.

DWill is also very good off the ball. He has played well next to both Watson and Livingston in his tenure as a Net.

I'd rather Deron handle the ball MORE, not less. Deron's effectiveness would diminish if we were to add ANOTHER ball handler.

Catch and Shoot stats
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player ... ION&dir=-1

DWill
3.6 FGA per game off C&S
53.8% FG
2.6 3pt Attempts per game off of C&S
50.9% 3pt
71.9% eFG on C&S

DWIll is by far the best catch and shoot player on the team.

Drives
stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/catchshoot/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1

DWIll only shoots 41.9% on Drives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let these facts marinate for a minute. Are you sure you would rather have someone take a 41.9% shot over a 53.8% shot.

Obviously you dont know what you are talking about. DWIll doesnt have the same explosiveness he had years ago. He cant finish anymore. Id much rather use him at what he is best at.

Lopez is the main reason why this team doesnt flow on offense.

We were the 8th best offensive team in the NBA during the 12-13 season and that was with lopez as the first option on most nights. We were 14th last season without Brook. LOL at this notion that Brook is the main reason we can't score efficiently. He has the same TS% as Joe Johnson this year and that's with his mediocre start. If you want to talk about ball movement, then fine, he is a big reason for our low assists ratio... but if you want a reason why our offense sucks? It's the teams inability to hit open shots. And before you mention the bobcats game where we were automatic from three, look at the other three games Lopez didn't play in:

From three:

Versus Cleveland: 4-19
Versus Chicago: 3-14
Versus Philly: 5-20

The offense will look s****y anytime our shooters miss open shots. Bogs, mirza, Deron, Joe and Anderson have all been s****y from downtown. Brook's struggles are a reason why our offense has sucked, but it's laughable to point to him as the main reason.

Are you really bringing up stats from 12-13? lol

TS% is one thing but JJ gives us 3 more assist per game.

Nothing Lopez does comes in the context of the offense. Its the reason why the players were saying in the locker room after the Hornets game how much better the ball flows without Lopez.

Many sabermeterics feel that posting up is the least efficient play in basketball.

LOL What?! That and the three point shot are the MOST efficient. How is a shot from 10 feet or closer the LEAST efficient shot in the NBA?!?! The least efficient is the 20 footer your favorite players Jack and Joe take. Give me ONE source where posting up is mentioned as the least efficient shot.

Look up "7 seconds or less". Half the NBA lives by these principals and it's one of the biggest reasons for the decline of the traditional post up center. Its been around for a decade.

Bigs like Garnett, Mirza and Jefferson are able to hit mid range jumpshots which nullify traditional defenses who funnel the ball inside to their shot blockers.

Again... What??

Al Jefferson and Brook shoot roughly the same percentage from all areas from the floor throughout their careers (with Brook being a tad better from beyond 10 feet). Seriously, they're damn near identical, yet for some reason you're arguing that Jefferson would be better here because he can hit the midranger and Brook can't? Not to mention that most of us criticize him because he sometimes falls in love with the outside shot instead of going to what he excels at which is low post scoring and drawing fouls, yet somehow low post scoring is a negative? I'm confused.

Oh, and Al is heralded as one of the premier low post scorers in the league, yet you want tot trade for him because Lopez's low post scoring is hurting the team. What?


And before people jump in and call me a Lopez homer/apologist... I actually agree and think it's time for a change and that we SHOULD move him. Though trading him for Jefferson would be hilarious because that would just be a lateral move at best them being so similar and all.Not to mention the fact that Utah already tried a Jefferson/Deron duo and it failed miserably. They can't play together.

Im referring to Corey Jefferson.

[MrDollarBills]

Not in favor of Lance, myself. I somehow see too many problems from the neck up.

It will be worth the risk if he buys in and the guy does move the ball at a decent clip. We'll just have to figure out how to manage the fact that Williams/Johnson/Lance all need the ball in their hands. Plus, Lance

Getting Lopez out and strictly running a frontcourt of KG/Plumlee/Jordan at C and Mirza/CJ at PF is a lot better than Lopez stifling the life out of our offense. If we can get Marvin Williams back as well to put in the PF rotation, even better.

I do this deal at any cost, tbh we'll be robbing Charlotte blind.

[CalamityX12]

Idk, I guess I could be fooling myself in saying the distractions that lance would bring are overblown....

I think if he's out of Charlotte who has underperformed n go to his hometown with kg, a distributing pg in dwill n another scorer in JJ, I think he'll be much more interested...

Maybe he n George last yr just were at odds.

can the distractions really get any worse though? i mean we already have guys who never talk alling out the team, a player basically forcing a trade out of town, and a coach calling out everyone under the sun.

i feel like any distractions lance brings are going to be way overshadowed by the energ he would provide and the shot in the arm factor.

and if he doesnt work out, he has just 1 more year as the alst year of his deal is a team option.

One little win streak will shadow all concerns....

From bkn POV I don't see why they won't pull the trigger but of course we have the great billy king to **** this up...

I say the risk is worth it, these games that brook misses hurts him more than ever....

[CalamityX12]

I'll say it again to be clear...

GET THIS OR ANY MOVE DONE ASAP!!!

I dont, as a **** Brooklyn nets fan, dont want to go through two months of trade rumors drama again!

[Prokorov]

We need to make a deal happen. lance or not i think its clear brook has to go. we have seen last year and now this year that he simply doesnt fit with the other pieces, and that garnett operates better at C.

plus the players seem to be giving subtle hints they prefer to play without him

[MrDollarBills]

We need to make a deal happen. lance or not i think its clear brook has to go. we have seen last year and now this year that he simply doesnt fit with the other pieces, and that garnett operates better at C.

plus the players seem to be giving subtle hints they prefer to play without him

Bingo, and it isn't like the coach is his biggest fan either.

It's not a question of if, but when do we get rid of him.

[Keith Van Horn]

We need to make a deal happen. lance or not i think its clear brook has to go. we have seen last year and now this year that he simply doesnt fit with the other pieces, and that garnett operates better at C.

plus the players seem to be giving subtle hints they prefer to play without him

I've noticed that too... Hey, if we can swing some sort of a Lance for Lopez trade without giving up any draft picks, we should do it.

I'm still uncertain if we should do JJ/Lopez for Lance/Jefferson.


One thing that occurred to me when thinking of a Williams/Stephenson/Johnson core, was the comparison to Kidd/Carter/Jefferson. The later team suffered from a lack of a solid big man, where we would have some decent role players who can play both sides of the ball.