Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[milellie111]

People being in their feelings because they have been Bullets fans for 25 years so they take their wrath on people who haven't been around 25 years.

Now as for Ernie, the question we should ask is has he improved. If the question is no, than fire him. If the answer is yes, then STFU!

Too bad some here don't even know what improvement is. Or they deny the fact saying "Grunfeld lucked into Wall and Beal and made the obvious pick", and "We have an old roster" or "What if Durant doesn't sign, then what?". All are arguments that are foolish and don't even deserve consideration.

Even though stats don't tell the full picture, this one tells enough to prove doubters wrong:

[Brenice]

Ernie could have drafted Turner instead of Wall and they would be happy that we didn't make the playoffs and Ernie might have been fired.

Instead he drafted Wall, we made the playoffs, the future is optimistic. And there agenda is shot to hell. They mad. Lol

[Dat2U]

Ernie could have drafted Turner instead of Wall and they would be happy that we didn't make the playoffs and Ernie might have been fired.

Instead he drafted Wall, we made the team, the future is optimistic. And there agenda is shot to hell. They mad. Lol

Ernie had no say in that decision.

http://dc.sbnation.com/2010/6/11/151305 ... nsis-dance

They really wanted to work out Evan Turner...some in org really liked him... and I hope those guys that liked Evan are no longer a part of the org.

Michael Lee: Was told today that Wiz tried to set up workout with Evan Turner - some within org really like him - but were denied on several occasions.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/6/14 ... o-work-out

[Brenice]

Ernie could have drafted Turner instead of Wall and they would be happy that we didn't make the playoffs and Ernie might have been fired.

Instead he drafted Wall, we made the team, the future is optimistic. And there agenda is shot to hell. They mad. Lol

Ernie had no say in that decision.

http://dc.sbnation.com/2010/6/11/151305 ... nsis-dance

They really wanted to work out Evan Turner...some in org really liked him... and I hope those guys that liked Evan are no longer a part of the org.

Michael Lee: Was told today that Wiz tried to set up workout with Evan Turner - some within org really like him - but were denied on several occasions.

They would have been wrong NOT to want to workout Turner. The fact of the matter most wanted to draft Wall but Turner was an option Ted and Ernie got right. So sit back and enjoy the team that Ted and Ernie put on the floor.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/6/14 ... o-work-out

[milellie111]

Wall was not an obvious pick but a smart pick. I could see if he was the only skilled player in the draft. Look at the other guys in the 2010 draft that are also having huge impact on their teams such as Paul George and Demarcus Cousins.

[hands11]

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... l-12-15-14

In this interview with Wall, you can tell so much about what has gone right with this team. He touches on a lot.

Randy and EG adding the right players have help him get to where he is. He touches on Sam as well.

Later in the interview, he talks about the post game and floater. More to come. He will keep adding.

He cover a lot about Beal and him and Beal and them maturing.

Talks about how who would have believed 3 years ago that so many players would want to play in DC.

Touches on Nene off the bench and how he is fine with it.

Talks about the vets.

Great interview. I have to say, Wall is turning into the best of what we could have hoped for and at several points along the way, there there lots of questions regarding if he would get there. Now ? I think there are few that wouldn't say he has arrived and they would be shocked that he doesn't get even better.

[milellie111]

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/john-wall-12-15-14

In this interview with Wall, you can tell so much about what has gone right with this team. He touches on a lot.

Randy and EG adding the right players have help him get to where he is. He touches on Sam as well.

Later in the interview, he talks about the post game and floater. More to come. He will keep adding.

He cover a lot about Beal and him and Beal and them maturing.

Talks about how who would have believed 3 years ago that so many players would want to play in DC.

Touches on Nene off the bench and how he is fine with it.

Talks about the vets.

Great interview. I have to say, Wall is turning into the best of what we could have hoped for and at several points along the way, there there lots of questions regarding if he would get there. Now ? I think there are few that wouldn't say he has arrived and they would be shocked that he doesn't get even better.

It is wonderful to watch these players mature before your very eyes. The addition of Howard Eisley on the staff as an assistant to help the backcourt should not be overlooked as well. The environment on this team is conducive to winning.

Wall has become the face of the franchise and Grunfeld can plug and play players around him that caters to his strengths.

[montestewart]

Wall was not an obvious pick but a smart pick. I could see if he was the only skilled player in the draft. Look at the other guys in the 2010 draft that are also having huge impact on their teams such as Paul George and Demarcus Cousins.

Not sure what "obvious" and "smart" mean here. Wall was the near consensus #1 pick for virtually his entire college career. By the time of the draft, I can't think of any major mock draft that had him as anything other than #1. WoW said Demarcus Cousins was better, and I wouldn't have faulted them for rolling with that, though it could easily have backfired so it made sense to pass on him hoping for a more mature roster. Don't recall anyone else in the national media pushing hard for anyone other than Wall at #1, and on this board, CCJ was the only one I recall strongly suggesting alternatives (drafting Cousins or trading for Evans, Iguodala, and a future 1st).

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/18/consensus.mock/

Maybe Wall wasn't an obvious pick, but he was the one most people predicted, he was the one most people thought was the best pick, and he was the one most people would have chosen were it their pick to make. I'm generally not too concerned about how Grunfeld uses top picks. It's when he's picking outside the top three that worries me. The Wizards apparently have a great (or near-great) player in Wall, and in Beal and Porter they have players that can partner with him for years to come. When they are all (with Gortat) at their veteran salaries, how will EG use late 1st and 2nd round picks? That's where he's been at his worst, and it will be pretty important as Wall/Beal/Porter mature, Nene and Miller depart, and the team needs low cost bigs, backup PGs and shooters to sustain or even get to the next level.

By adding Humphries, Pierce, and Butler, Grunfeld has his best FA signing season ever (that I can recall). Maybe that's the new norm for him, but I'm not counting on it, so the drafting issue will continue to be a concern for me. I'll be happily surprised if it turns out not to be an issue. Maybe he'll just trade all the picks away: problem solved!

Go Wiz!

PS: The Wizards are on pace for more than 60 wins. Based on the preseason predictions, everyone was a doubter. Negative naysayers such as hands11 and DCZards predicted a paltry 50 wins, and Dr. Depresso himself, LyricalRico, only offered a measly 46 win prediction. (Come on LR, what kind of lame fan would predict 46 wins!) I would say that perhaps the Wizards can't sustain that pace, and maybe Zards was right, but that might come off sounding like doubt, so I'll hope they can sustain that pace and congratulate the only true fan with the optimism, courage, and vision to predict a win total in the neighborhood of the Wizards' actual win pace. Let's hear it for the fan of the year: payitforward!

By the way, what did you predict? I can't seem to find your name (or Brenice's name) on the preseason prediction list. Last minute doubts?

[Kanyewest]

Ernie could have drafted Turner instead of Wall and they would be happy that we didn't make the playoffs and Ernie might have been fired.

Instead he drafted Wall, we made the team, the future is optimistic. And there agenda is shot to hell. They mad. Lol

Ernie had no say in that decision.

http://dc.sbnation.com/2010/6/11/151305 ... nsis-dance

They really wanted to work out Evan Turner...some in org really liked him... and I hope those guys that liked Evan are no longer a part of the org.

Michael Lee: Was told today that Wiz tried to set up workout with Evan Turner - some within org really like him - but were denied on several occasions.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/6/14 ... o-work-out

TBH, I really liked Turner back then. Not that I would have taken him over Wall or Cousins but he was pretty impressive at Ohio State.

[hands11]

Wall was not an obvious pick but a smart pick. I could see if he was the only skilled player in the draft. Look at the other guys in the 2010 draft that are also having huge impact on their teams such as Paul George and Demarcus Cousins.

Not sure what "obvious" and "smart" mean here. Wall was the near consensus #1 pick for virtually his entire college career. By the time of the draft, I can't think of any major mock draft that had him as anything other than #1. WoW said Demarcus Cousins was better, and I wouldn't have faulted them for rolling with that, though it could easily have backfired so it made sense to pass on him hoping for a more mature roster. Don't recall anyone else in the national media pushing hard for anyone other than Wall at #1, and on this board, CCJ was the only one I recall strongly suggesting alternatives (drafting Cousins or trading for Evans, Iguodala, and a future 1st).

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/18/consensus.mock/

Maybe Wall wasn't an obvious pick, but he was the one most people predicted, he was the one most people thought was the best pick, and he was the one most people would have chosen were it their pick to make. Vesely aside, I'm generally not too concerned about how Grunfeld uses top picks. It's when he's picking outside the top three that worries me. The Wizards apparently have a great (or near-great) player in Wall, and in Beal and Porter they have players that can partner with him for years to come. When they are all (with Gortat) at their veteran salaries, how will EG use late 1st and 2nd round picks? That's where he's been at his worst, and it will be pretty important as Wall/Beal/Porter mature, Nene and Miller depart, and the team needs low cost bigs, backup PGs and shooters to sustain or even get to the next level.

By adding Humphries, Pierce, and Butler, Grunfeld has his best FA signing season ever (that I can recall). Maybe that's the new norm for him, but I'm not counting on it, so the drafting issue will continue to be a concern for me. I'll be happily surprised if it turns out not to be an issue. Maybe he'll just trade all the picks away: problem solved!

Go Wiz!

PS: The Wizards are on pace for more than 60 wins. Based on the preseason predictions, everyone was a doubter. Negative naysayers such as hands11 and DCZards predicted a paltry 50 wins, and Dr. Depresso himself, LyricalRico, only offered a measly 46 win prediction. (Come on LR, what kind of lame fan would predict 46 wins!) I would say that perhaps the Wizards can't sustain that pace, and maybe Zards was right.

Nice Spin

Reality is, they tanked to get that #1 which was smart.
Every GM in a rebuild wants the #1 in a draft so they can get that franchise player.
Then they drafted every draft with the idea of building around him and developing his game.

As for my prediction. I explained my logic in the predictions thread. Ended up at 52 and rounded down to 50 because of Beal being out and figuring they would need some time to gel. Plus a stronger East. Time will tell if that is accurate. And its not just what you predicted, its when you did it.

As for your last comment

[hands11]

Ernie could have drafted Turner instead of Wall and they would be happy that we didn't make the playoffs and Ernie might have been fired.

Instead he drafted Wall, we made the team, the future is optimistic. And there agenda is shot to hell. They mad. Lol

Ernie had no say in that decision.

http://dc.sbnation.com/2010/6/11/151305 ... nsis-dance

They really wanted to work out Evan Turner...some in org really liked him... and I hope those guys that liked Evan are no longer a part of the org.

Michael Lee: Was told today that Wiz tried to set up workout with Evan Turner - some within org really like him - but were denied on several occasions.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/6/14 ... o-work-out

TBH, I really liked Turner back then. Not that I would have taken him over Wall or Cousins but he was pretty impressive at Ohio State.

Yeah. I remember seeing interviews where they would talk about him as the #1 option. He was in the conversation though Wall was talked about more. As for early #1 pick predictions... People talking about that are making empty comments. Shabbazz was a early #1 projected pick a year before the draft. So was Noel. Another mostly empty comment would be anyone referencing the national media. They aren't a leading indicator but are best used as a lagging indicator that report thing that have already happened.

[montestewart]

hands, you keep incorrectly assigning the Wizards getting the #1 pick to some sort of brilliantly executed tank, no matter how many times I and others point out the contrary, complete with links to contemporaneous articles.

Leonsis did not want to pay the Pollin estate's asking price, citing the long term payroll. The estate ordered Grunfeld to make deals to move long term contracts, which he did pretty well, though he got little in return for adding major pieces to contenders.

Every sucky team is not a brilliant tank. The Wizards were a sucky team that luckily got Wall, the consensus #1 pick. As for the last part, just a little Wiz board satire. Don't be so negative.

Go Wiz!

[payitforward]

Wall was not an obvious pick but a smart pick. I could see if he was the only skilled player in the draft. Look at the other guys in the 2010 draft that are also having huge impact on their teams such as Paul George and Demarcus Cousins.

I agree and disagree; i.e. I don't know about either of those words -- "obvious" or "smart."

I remember that Spring pretty clearly. Wall was the consensus #1 pick. OTOH, most people would rather have had Cousins, but they worried about his "character," which seemed silly to me at the time. He just looked like an enormous teenager to me! Enormous in size and in talent. I would have been happy had we picked him, but I was also happy we got Wall.

There was a small amount of sentiment among analysts for Evan Turner, because he was older and had already put up terrific college numbers. But most people realized that it was worth swinging for the fences on either Wall or Cousins. And everyone understands, now as then, that it's much easier to find good swing men than either a monster Center or a PG w/ Wall's potential.

I don't think there was anyone who put Paul George in the top handful of picks. At the same time, when I watched video of him that Spring, he just looked over the top incredible; it was obvious he could be a tremendous NBA player. Still, there was no need to pick him #1.

[payitforward]

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/john-wall-12-15-14

In this interview with Wall, you can tell so much about what has gone right with this team. He touches on a lot.

Randy and EG adding the right players have help him get to where he is. He touches on Sam as well.

Later in the interview, he talks about the post game and floater. More to come. He will keep adding.

He cover a lot about Beal and him and Beal and them maturing.

Talks about how who would have believed 3 years ago that so many players would want to play in DC.

Touches on Nene off the bench and how he is fine with it.

Talks about the vets.

Great interview. I have to say, Wall is turning into the best of what we could have hoped for and at several points along the way, there there lots of questions regarding if he would get there. Now ? I think there are few that wouldn't say he has arrived and they would be shocked that he doesn't get even better.

I'm on board w/ that, Hands. He's an awfully good player and still awfully young. Smart kid, too -- and now that he's slowed down his speech I'm able to understand him!

[payitforward]

...Reality is, they tanked to get that #1 (i.e. Wall) which was smart.
Every GM in a rebuild wants the #1 in a draft so they can get that franchise player.
Then they drafted every draft with the idea of building around him and developing his game.

As for my prediction. I explained my logic in the predictions thread. Ended up at 52 and rounded down to 50 because of Beal being out and figuring they would need some time to gel. Plus a stronger East. Time will tell if that is accurate. And its not just what you predicted, its when you did it.

Hands, were you alive way back in 2010?

How can you say "they tanked to get that #1"??? Far from it. They made a bunch of moves one year earlier w/ the goal of going deep in the playoffs based on veterans -- presumably because their departing owner wanted a last hurrah in his dotage. Bad moves, and I think we probably all hated them -- after all, we're NOT in our dotage!

That didn't work out at all -- and then we held a fire sale towards the end of a lost season -- w/ a no-future roster and a new owner coming on board. There was no planned "tank" -- the opposite.

Moreover, "Reality is..." (to use your words) that we didn't "get" that pick. We got a high pick, yes, we were an awful team. But the ping pong balls gave us #1. You can't "plan" to have the ping pong balls catapult you.

In other words, "Reality is" that we made awful moves for awful reasons, failed, then had the dice roll in our direction. Chance favored us. And, what if we'd gotten #2 instead of #1. Likely we'd have picked Turner. Then the following year, we could have followed your idea and added Marcus Morris.

Put your pick of Alex Len in the mix, and maybe we'd have had the #1 in 2014? It's all part of the plan.

[payitforward]

You know... once again we've fallen victim to the troll miliellie.

Right now, this team is awesome. We're 17-6. We're 11-2 at home. We have a winning road record. Have we played one of the hardest schedules of any team? No -- but so what?

Results count. As I wrote last night, give Ernie credit for Humphries, Pierce and his luck w/ Butler. Hell, give him credit for figuring out a way to get rid of his mistakes (plus a future choice, unfortunately, but still...) for Miller. Give him credit for finding Gooden when he could help us.

Give him credit, too, for deciding to shorten our forward-going payroll so that we get a great shot at Durant (may that work out!!!).

I'm happy w/ our results so far, and even though I find it hard to believe we'll be a 60+ win team, I'm delighted to find us on a road that could lead to that.

Is there a down side? Sure! What if we don't get Durant? What if e.g. Beal doesn't fully develop (looking good lately tho!!). A couple of years from now, we could find that we are rebuilding again.

But why worry about that down side, when instead we get to watch our team play extremely well (the way we handled the Clippers, for example, was a thrill!)?

Does this mean Ernie is "a great GM?" Ummm, no. Overall he's been terrible -- but again, so what? He's had a very good last 12 months, that's for sure! And I'm grateful for that.

Go Wiz!

[Dat2U]

Wall was not an obvious pick but a smart pick. I could see if he was the only skilled player in the draft. Look at the other guys in the 2010 draft that are also having huge impact on their teams such as Paul George and Demarcus Cousins.

LOL, Someone is trying to rewrite history only 5 years later.

[Dat2U]

...Reality is, they tanked to get that #1 (i.e. Wall) which was smart.
Every GM in a rebuild wants the #1 in a draft so they can get that franchise player.
Then they drafted every draft with the idea of building around him and developing his game.

As for my prediction. I explained my logic in the predictions thread. Ended up at 52 and rounded down to 50 because of Beal being out and figuring they would need some time to gel. Plus a stronger East. Time will tell if that is accurate. And its not just what you predicted, its when you did it.

Hands, were you alive way back in 2010?

How can you say "they tanked to get that #1"??? Far from it. They made a bunch of moves one year earlier w/ the goal of going deep in the playoffs based on veterans -- presumably because their departing owner wanted a last hurrah in his dotage. Bad moves, and I think we probably all hated them -- after all, we're NOT in our dotage!

That didn't work out at all -- and then we held a fire sale towards the end of a lost season -- w/ a no-future roster and a new owner coming on board. There was no planned "tank" -- the opposite.

Moreover, "Reality is..." (to use your words) that we didn't "get" that pick. We got a high pick, yes, we were an awful team. But the ping pong balls gave us #1. You can't "plan" to have the ping pong balls catapult you.

In other words, "Reality is" that we made awful moves for awful reasons, failed, then had the dice roll in our direction. Chance favored us. And, what if we'd gotten #2 instead of #1. Likely we'd have picked Turner. Then the following year, we could have followed your idea and added Marcus Morris.

Put your pick of Alex Len in the mix, and maybe we'd have had the #1 in 2014? It's all part of the plan.

Thanks for setting the record straight. Someone else trying to rewrite history in their own narrative. But that's hands11 MO. He's always ahead of the curve, guiding us lowly idiots towards perfect fandom.

Not sure what happenned to Jan Vesely though. According to hands11, it was Jan NOT John Wall that would soon be the heart and soul of the Wizards. I guess we can't always have 20/20 foresight.

[TGW]

Not sure what happenned to Jan Vesely though. According to hands11, it was Jan NOT John Wall that would soon be the heart and soul of the Wizards. I guess we can't always have 20/20 foresight.

[dckingsfan]

Not sure what happenned to Jan Vesely though. According to hands11, it was Jan NOT John Wall that would soon be the heart and soul of the Wizards. I guess we can't always have 20/20 foresight.

If you just keep saying that this is the year and this is the player, eventually you will be right - and you can have your told you so moment