Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[Nivek]

Whenever I read J. Michael I'm left with the impression that he doesn't understand the NBA's salary cap rules.

For example:

Jordan Clarkson, the No. 46 draft pick by the Wizards which was sold to the Los Angeles Lakers, is back and forth to the D-League and getting just spot minutes for one of the NBA's worst teams.

The initial deal was made on draft night in June, when the Wizards sold the slot for almost $2 million rather than clogging up their roster with a longshot player who ate up salary-cap space.

Second round picks may or may not be longshots, but they neither clog the roster nor eat salary cap space. Second round picks sign non-guaranteed minimum salary contracts. If they don't make the team, they don't get paid and they don't count against the cap. If they make the team, they're hardly eating cap space -- the rookie minimum is the absolute smallest salary an NBA player can be paid.

J. Michael's stuff about the Wizards being able to sign Rasual Butler "without regard to the cap" is also inaccurate. Butler still counts against the cap (and in luxury tax calculations), but not for the full amount of his salary. Veterans with 3+ years of experience playing for the league minimum are given an accounting value against the cap that's equal to the amount of the 2nd year minimum salary. The league actually pays the difference. This was done (as J. Michael notes) to avoid having teams dump veterans to save a few hundred thousand dollars.

But, the point is that dumping the pick to eventually sign Butler doesn't represent any kind of savings for the Wizards -- he's costing them about $310k more than the 2nd round pick would have.

Now, I don't have too big a problem with the team getting out of the pick since everyone they wanted to pick had already been taken. Especially if they could turn that $2 million into something useful for the team. And, Butler has played extremely well this season.

[FreeBalling]

Call it what you want, dumb luck, diligent planning or a combination of both. EG is leading this franchise to a winning record this season, regardless of how some people feel.

The Wizards lost a coin flip to get Blake Griffin in 2009. Then we could have had Ricky Rubio at the 5th pick. However, EG traded for Miller and Foye. Paving the way to pick John Wall in 2010. We were unlucky the year before and luck the following year.

The acquisition of Gortat took strange path using up a late 1st round pick, NBA player salary, players coming and going. The results so far are producing very positive results. Who should get credit for the results being produced? I say it's EG. People do not have to like his past moves, however, people should be open minded enough to recognize the accomplishments that are unfolding in front of their eyes.

Do people understand leadership?

"What do effective leaders do? and you’ll hear a sweep of answers. Leaders set strategy; they motivate; they create a mission; they build a culture. Then ask “What should leaders do? If the group is seasoned, you’ll likely hear one response: the leader’s singular job is to get results."


"People often remark that I'm pretty lucky. Luck is only important in so far as getting the chance to sell yourself at the right moment. After that, you've got to have talent and know how to use it ~ Frank Sinatra"

[Dat2U]

Whenever I read J. Michael I'm left with the impression that he doesn't understand the NBA's salary cap rules.

For example:

Jordan Clarkson, the No. 46 draft pick by the Wizards which was sold to the Los Angeles Lakers, is back and forth to the D-League and getting just spot minutes for one of the NBA's worst teams.

The initial deal was made on draft night in June, when the Wizards sold the slot for almost $2 million rather than clogging up their roster with a longshot player who ate up salary-cap space.

Second round picks may or may not be longshots, but they neither clog the roster or eat salary cap space. Second round picks sign non-guaranteed minimum salary contracts. If they don't make the team, they don't get paid and they don't count against the cap. If they make the team, they're hardly eating cap space -- the rookie minimum is the absolute smallest salary an NBA player can be paid.

J. Michael's stuff about the Wizards being able to sign Rasual Butler "without regard to the cap" is also inaccurate. Butler still counts against the cap (and in luxury tax calculations), but not for the full amount of his salary. Veterans with 3+ years of experience playing for the league minimum are given an accounting value against the cap that's equal to the amount of the 2nd year minimum salary. The league actually pays the difference. This was done (as J. Michael notes) to avoid having teams dump veterans to save a few hundred thousand dollars.

Wow, amazing that he can have a job writing for the NBA and not even be aware of basic rules that govern the game.

I know someone has pointed this out to him before.

[Dat2U]

Grunfeld tried to resign TA, but he chose Houston.

Grunfeld supporters main justification for keeping him on as GM for life is that.

A. He is excellent at cleaning up his own mistakes.

B. So what if he can't draft, see A.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

So you are either saying that:

A. There are perfect GM's in the NBA who make no mistakes because hey, there are perfect people in this world

or

B. If someone makes a mistake, cleaning it up is looked upon as negative

Most guys don't sh*t the bed in their job for 10 years AND get to clean up their mess afterwards.

[milellie111]

Grunfeld tried to resign TA, but he chose Houston.

Grunfeld supporters main justification for keeping him on as GM for life is that.

A. He is excellent at cleaning up his own mistakes.

B. So what if he can't draft, see A.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

So you are either saying that:

A. There are perfect GM's in the NBA who make no mistakes because hey, there are perfect people in this world

or

B. If someone makes a mistake, cleaning it up is looked upon as negative

Most guys don't sh*t the bed in their job for 10 years AND get to clean up their mess afterwards.

But that's irrelevant. How has he performed on his job recently?

If you had bad performance appraisals at your job for a few years and you got a new boss and changed your performance because he allowed you to do your job better, and the most recent 3 years you had outstanding appraisals, is it right to fire you for the past bad ones ones?

You mad he was allowed to keep his job or are you mad he is succeeding at his job? That's just being a hater.

[Kanyewest]

But, the point is that dumping the pick to eventually sign Butler doesn't represent any kind of savings for the Wizards -- he's costing them about $310k more than the 2nd round pick would have.

I'm missing something here. The Wizards sold the 2nd round pick for $2 million. Then they signed Butler for $1.4 million. It would have cost the Wizards $507,000 to sign Clarkson. Yes, if Clarkson doesn't make the team, the Wizards wouldn't have to pay Clarkson, but they would have lost out $2 million cash.

[Nivek]

But, the point is that dumping the pick to eventually sign Butler doesn't represent any kind of savings for the Wizards -- he's costing them about $310k more than the 2nd round pick would have.

I'm missing something here. The Wizards sold the 2nd round pick for $2 million. Then they signed Butler for $1.4 million. It would have cost the Wizards $507,000 to sign Clarkson. Yes, if Clarkson doesn't make the team, the Wizards wouldn't have to pay Clarkson, but they would have lost out $2 million cash.

J. Michael's contention was that signing Butler instead of a second round pick was a savings to the Wizards because Butler's salary doesn't count against the salary cap. This is incorrect.

As a 10+ year veteran, Butler is earning $1.4 million this season ($1,448,490). But, that's not how he counts against the cap, and that's not what the Wizards are actually paying him. To encourage teams to keep veterans around (if they wanted), veterans playing on minimum salary contracts count against the cap the same amount as the 2nd year minimum salary. This season, that's $816,482. The league also pays the difference between the veteran minimum and the 2nd year minimum. So, Butler is getting paid $816,482 by the Wizards, and $632,008 by the league.

A 2nd round pick would have signed for the rookie minimum -- $507,336. So, the Wizards are paying an extra $309,146 to have Butler instead of a 2nd rounder. Technically, it might be a little less because 2nd rounders MAY receive 20% above the minimum -- that'd be $608,803.

The underlying point, though is that no matter how you want to look at the issue, Butler counts for more against the salary cap and the luxury tax calculation than a 2nd rounder would have. (Especially if they'd taken the draft & stash route.)

The $2 million the Wizards got from the Lakers is a separate issue. The Wizards haven't said how they're using that money.

The bigger point, however, is that J. Michael is making a false linkage. There was NOTHING preventing the Wizards from both using the second round pick AND signing Rasual Butler. They're unrelated transactions, and it's specious to link them. Contrary to what J. Michael wrote, 2nd round picks don't eat cap space, and they certainly don't have to "clog" a roster. If they look good, the team can keep them at a bargain price. If they don't look good, they can be released at no cost to the team.

Or, they could have picked another version of Satoransky and kept him overseas. Or, they could have done what the Spurs did with Marcus Denmon, an American player they drafted in the 2nd round and sent overseas.

Lots of options.

No one with a bit of sense is going to complain about Butler. He's turned out to be a terrific signing, even if he shoots 0 for the rest of the season. But praising the front office for selling the 2nd round pick so they could have Butler -- it's just ****.

[daSwami]

But, the point is that dumping the pick to eventually sign Butler doesn't represent any kind of savings for the Wizards -- he's costing them about $310k more than the 2nd round pick would have.

I'm missing something here. The Wizards sold the 2nd round pick for $2 million. Then they signed Butler for $1.4 million. It would have cost the Wizards $507,000 to sign Clarkson. Yes, if Clarkson doesn't make the team, the Wizards wouldn't have to pay Clarkson, but they would have lost out $2 million cash.

Think how many urinal cup holders someone could buy for $2M. (just thinking big picture here.)

[hands11]

Haters vs Admirers

They both look at something they couldn't do or didn't do.

One looks at their own weakness and admires someone's strength in that area.

The other looks at their own weakness and hates someone's strength in that area.

I am not disciplined enough to go to the gym and work out like a lot of people. I admire those people. I don't hate on them.

Ernie's improvement under Ted is admirable. We should show improvement. We want chemistry on the court but underestimate front office chemistry.

Timing is everything. The time to fire Ernie was when Ted first acquired the team. You don't fire a man who has shown iimprovement. You either admire his work or hate it. But in the end, whichever side you are on, you are saying something about yourself.

Well said. Nice framing. I totally agree. And people can take it another step in their personal lives. Regardless of how much you dislike someone for various reasons, there is usually something they do you can admire. Identify it can more challenging with some people but there is almost always something. And if you are looking to improve yourself, try to integrate that thing into your own life.



I used to actively follow this process more when I was a younger. I still do, just not at the same level.

[hands11]

Call it what you want, dumb luck, diligent planning or a combination of both. EG is leading this franchise to a winning record this season, regardless of how some people feel.

The Wizards lost a coin flip to get Blake Griffin in 2009. Then we could have had Ricky Rubio at the 5th pick. However, EG traded for Miller and Foye. Paving the way to pick John Wall in 2010. We were unlucky the year before and luck the following year.

The acquisition of Gortat took strange path using up a late 1st round pick, NBA player salary, players coming and going. The results so far are producing very positive results. Who should get credit for the results being produced? I say it's EG. People do not have to like his past moves, however, people should be open minded enough to recognize the accomplishments that are unfolding in front of their eyes.

Do people understand leadership?

"What do effective leaders do? and you’ll hear a sweep of answers. Leaders set strategy; they motivate; they create a mission; they build a culture. Then ask “What should leaders do? If the group is seasoned, you’ll likely hear one response: the leader’s singular job is to get results."


"People often remark that I'm pretty lucky. Luck is only important in so far as getting the chance to sell yourself at the right moment. After that, you've got to have talent and know how to use it ~ Frank Sinatra"

Good stuff FreeBalling

For those that have never read this story, here it is..

http://www.naute.com/inspiration/luck.phtml

Good Luck Bad Luck!

There is a Chinese story of a farmer who used an old horse to till his fields. One day, the horse escaped into the hills and when the farmer's neighbors sympathized with the old man over his bad luck, the farmer replied, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?" A week later, the horse returned with a herd of horses from the hills and this time the neighbors congratulated the farmer on his good luck. His reply was, "Good luck? Bad luck? Who knows?"

Then, when the farmer's son was attempting to tame one of the wild horses, he fell off its back and broke his leg. Everyone thought this very bad luck. Not the farmer, whose only reaction was, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?"

Some weeks later, the army marched into the village and conscripted every able-bodied youth they found there. When they saw the farmer's son with his broken leg, they let him off. Now was that good luck or bad luck?

Who knows?

Everything that seems on the surface to be an evil may be a good in disguise. And everything that seems good on the surface may really be an evil. So we are wise when we leave it to God to decide what is good fortune and what misfortune, and thank him that all things turn out for good with those who love him.

Author Unknown

[hands11]

But, the point is that dumping the pick to eventually sign Butler doesn't represent any kind of savings for the Wizards -- he's costing them about $310k more than the 2nd round pick would have.

I'm missing something here. The Wizards sold the 2nd round pick for $2 million. Then they signed Butler for $1.4 million. It would have cost the Wizards $507,000 to sign Clarkson. Yes, if Clarkson doesn't make the team, the Wizards wouldn't have to pay Clarkson, but they would have lost out $2 million cash.

I think that was the point he was making.

There was only one slot left. You want Clarkson or Butler ?

They know going into the draft and over the summer, they wanted experienced help to round out of rosters and even said so.

Had they not sold the pick and instead used it on Clarkson, maybe they never sign Butler because another team picks him up while they are bouncing Clarkson between the NBA and DL. And they don't get the 2M dollars that they would later use on Butler while the pocked the rest.

And because Butler is a vet signing at min, the league even pitched in to pay some of his 1.5M

End result, Wizards got a productive player that has paid out huge for them this year, and got to pock some money.

[closg00]

I think that was the point he was making.

There was only one slot left. You want Clarkson or Butler ?

Had they not sold the pick and instead used it on Clarkson, maybe they never sign Butler because another team picks him up while they are bouncing Clarkson between the NBA and DL. And they don't get the 2M dollars that they then would use to pay for Butler while the pocked the rest.

And because Butler is a vet signing at min, the league even pitched in to pay some of his 1.5M

End result, Wizards got a productive player that has paid out huge for them this year, and got to pock some money.

This is factually incorrect hands.
Kevin summed it up nicely, I hope he posted this on J Michael's blog. J Michaels article was embarassing.

The bigger point, however, is that J. Michael is making a false linkage. There was NOTHING preventing the Wizards from both using the second round pick AND signing Rasual Butler. They're unrelated transactions, and it's specious to link them. Contrary to what J. Michael wrote, 2nd round picks don't eat cap space, and they certainly don't have to "clog" a roster. If they look good, the team can keep them at a bargain price. If they don't look good, they can be released at no cost to the team.

Or, they could have picked another version of Satoransky and kept him overseas. Or, they could have done what the Spurs did with Marcus Denmon, an American player they drafted in the 2nd round and sent overseas.

Lots of options.

[hands11]

I think that was the point he was making.

There was only one slot left. You want Clarkson or Butler ?

Had they not sold the pick and instead used it on Clarkson, maybe they never sign Butler because another team picks him up while they are bouncing Clarkson between the NBA and DL. And they don't get the 2M dollars that they then would use to pay for Butler while the pocked the rest.

And because Butler is a vet signing at min, the league even pitched in to pay some of his 1.5M

End result, Wizards got a productive player that has paid out huge for them this year, and got to pock some money.

This is factually incorrect hands.
Kevin summed it up nicely, I hope he posted this on J Michael's blog. J Michaels article was embarassing.

The bigger point, however, is that J. Michael is making a false linkage. There was NOTHING preventing the Wizards from both using the second round pick AND signing Rasual Butler. They're unrelated transactions, and it's specious to link them. Contrary to what J. Michael wrote, 2nd round picks don't eat cap space, and they certainly don't have to "clog" a roster. If they look good, the team can keep them at a bargain price. If they don't look good, they can be released at no cost to the team.

Or, they could have picked another version of Satoransky and kept him overseas. Or, they could have done what the Spurs did with Marcus Denmon, an American player they drafted in the 2nd round and sent overseas.

Lots of options.

I outlined what they wanted to do and its what they did. We know what they wanted to do. They said so.

There are only 15 spaces. Sure they could draft and stash if that is your point. But they wanted the money. They are still paying Dray a butt ton to not be here so the extra Ms are nice to pocket to help balance the equation. Everyone is ignoring why they sold the pick to get that money. I suspect the answer is $8,471,339 to Dray.

But you are right. If they wanted, they could have used the pick on a stash player and them not be on the books this year, and got Rasual. And had what was it, 2M less to show for it.

But J does say this..

"If the Wizards had drafted and signed a pick at No. 46, there wouldn't have been an open roster spot and Butler wouldn't have come here for camp."

Draft and stash wasn't what he was commenting on. He was talking about if they drafted and signed them. In that context, it was a good read.

And what if the player they wanted didn't want to sign over seas ? what happens then ?

If they weren't paying Dray 8M to not be here, I might have an issue with selling the pick. Since they are, I really don't. Sure it would be nice to have more stashed players. But I get Ted wanting the 2M to off set his loses also. They have one stashed player. Maybe they add another this year. Plus Glen is effectually stashed in the DL, though not a real stash since they are paying him.

[Kanyewest]

Trading the 2nd round pick for nothing pretty much allowed Butler to make the team. Still, the Wizards could have done a draft and stash. Then again, perhaps the 2 million could be put to better use.

[closg00]

You're right hands about the cash, that $2 large does lessen the pain of cleaning-up another one of Ernie's colossal blunders, his panic extension of Andray Blatche . Grunfeld's blunders always have a ripple effect that reverberate.
Instead of stockpiling assets, Grunfeld continuously has to burn assets to clean his sh*t up. This past off-season the cleaning-up netted us a good team.

Now this off-season Butler was our last FA signing in late September, teams were not exactly clamoring to sign him.

Given a choice between pocketing another asset and re-signing Temple to a 2-year deal (Why!! the gift of a 2nd year for Temple?) I would have kept Clarkson given Prof Miller's age.
http://hoopshabit.com/2014/12/20/los-an ... -d-league/

[hands11]

You're right hands about the cash, that $2 large does lessen the pain of cleaning-up another one of Ernie's colossal blunders, his panic extension of Andray Blatche . Grunfeld's blunders always have a ripple effect that reverberate.
Instead of stockpiling assets, Grunfeld continuously has to burn assets to clean his sh*t up. This past off-season the cleaning-up netted us a good team.

Now this off-season Butler was our last FA signing in late September, teams were not exactly clamoring to sign him.

Given a choice between pocketing another asset and re-signing Temple to a 2-year deal (Why!! the gift of a 2nd year for Temple?) I would have kept Clarkson given Prof Miller's age.
http://hoopshabit.com/2014/12/20/los-an ... -d-league/

http://www.naute.com/inspiration/luck.phtml

Lots of calculated risks along the way.

You might not like Temple, but he isn't useless. And I do find him to be a part of the total team glue. Not something that a stat captures well. I like what they did with him. He is a good fit in the locker and a good example for other long shot players. A DL call up that signed some one years and fought for a role by being dedicated to doing whatever was needed of him to help the team. Always a team first guy. Never complaining. I respect Temple as a man and what he has done for the team. And man, he was all out balling there for a moment while Beal was out. They helped us get off to the good start this year that we are enjoying. He stepped up big time. Do you think Clarkson would have stepped up like Temple did. Because no Temple and I doubt we win some of those games. He played huge in 4 games and we won them all. No Beal.

7th in DRPM doesn't suck. Small sample. 26th last year.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/2

For the record, Dray had talent. Ted had lots of Abe trash to clean up. Biggest was Gilbert's worst in the league contract and they did that pretty effectively by getting a one year shorter 2nd worst in the league contract. I wouldn't have dreamed someone would touch Gils contract but they got it done. That was HUGE. Not only for the cap and accelerating the rebuild, but to get him the hell out of here. That one move doesn't get nearly enough credit. The trickle down is hard to capture in all the effects it had.

Thank God ORL had the GM they did and we had the front office we had.

[Kanyewest]

Temple has served his purpose in the short term. The team started 7-2 without Bradley Beal in the lineup. He's probably also a good practice player that pushes John Wall to become a better offensive player. Clarkson does have potential though but it looks like the Wizards have taken taken the veterans route and for now it is paying off.

It was also in Clarkson's best interest to be drafted by the Lakers since they have their own D-League Affiliate. I wonder if Washington will get on board- anybody have their stance on this?

[closg00]

Hands, you just love pulling out your magical "Abe made him do it" wand to just make-up shyt about decisions Ernie Grunfeld is responsible for. The Blatche Botch is on EG, that's his contract offer.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Brenice]

Either the Ernie/Ted combo is better than the Ernie/Abe combo or Ernie gets 100% credit for the state of the team RIGHT NOW.

[Dat2U]

And since the Dray signing was under Abe, I give it less weight then I do moves made under Ted. And for the record, Dray had talent. Ted had lots of Abe trash to clean up. Biggest was Gilbert's worst in the league contract and they did that pretty effectively by getting a one year shorter 2nd worst in the league contract. I wouldn't have dreamed someone would touch Gils contract but they got it done. That was HUGE. Not only for the cap and accelerating the rebuild, but to get him the hell out of here. That one move doesn't get nearly enough credit. The trickle down is hard to capture in all the effects it had.

Thank God ORL had the GM they did and we had the front office we had.

Why do you keep trying to rewrite history? The 'Baltche' extension was under Ted. Remember the "new big three" Blatche, Wall & Crawford?