Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks.

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I have read almost all of this thread and I don't recall people hating on Rondo? Anybody that has watched Rondo play the past 7 seasons knows how good he is. The fact is that Rondo is struggling badly this season on offense. His shot is off, and his FT are abysmal. That does not mean when people point that out they are hating him or saying he sucks.

As of the lack of talent: Love and Rondo was option #1. The dream was over the second the Cavs got the #1 pick. You can blame Ainge all you want about the lack of talent but the reality is this is exactly what happens when you rebuild.

Rebuilding takes times, the team make trades, get picks and hope you can get a stud in the draft. Decent players are simply not going to sign with a rebuilding team. You have to start over from the bottom. I know it sucks, and its not fun watching the team lose but that is the reality of a rebuild.

At this point I just don't know what people to expect. Maybe some posters on here have never been through a rebuild.

Never been thru a rebuild???????? I must have been hibernating from 1987 to 2008. We've spent easily 23-25 years of the last 30 rebuilding. How many years in the last 30 have we even had a serious contending team? Cmon man.....everyone here has been down this road before. It's tired and it's old. My problem isn't rebuilding it's the stupid way we are going about it. I'd rather TANK HARD like Philly. It only takes ONE HOME RUN PLAYER like a Lebron, A. Davis, Shaq, Duncan or Durant to get us back in the ffin game. You have to put yourself in position to even have a chance at those guy with a Top 3-5 pick. We aren't even getting in the game! It's pathetic. Ainge is so arrogant he thinks he can draft his way into contention with non-Top 5 picks. Please.

A) Philly tanked hard and got the 3rd pick.

B) Cavs barely missed the playoffs ended up with the first pick.

C)I agree. Problem is Lebron, Davis, Duncan Shaq and Durant are few and far between. You just listed 5 franchise changing players from the last 23 years of drafts.

D) Those sure fire franchise players people wanted to tank for are Wiggins who is averaging 12 PPG, Parker, who tore his ACL and Embiid who is out for the season.

Not sure what else to say. You're upset. I suggest you stop watching or following this team until the ping pong balls are pulled.

Do you need me to go on and on with the tons more of Top 5 picks that have been drafted over the past 15 years? KG. Love. Paul. Irving. Wade. Westbrook. Rose. Melo. Griffin. Bosh. Wall. Howard. Harden. Cousins. How many you need?????????? I'm not saying every Top 5 pick is a stud, but guess what? You would have NEVER drafted any of the guys I just named if you weren't in the Top 5. Now go get me a list of non-Top 5 picks that turned into studs and let's compare. Please. No comparison. If you are going to SUCK and be in the lottery then it makes the most sense to suck bad and get a Top 5 pick. You never know when a STUD will be there for the taking..........but one thing I will guarantee is that you have a much better chance at getting that STUD if you have a Top 5 pick as opposed to hoping he slips to you at #7 or #8. Man, this is so obvious I don't know how people argue otherwise.

[humblebum]

Not sure I agree that good teams get stars. KG joined our sorry squad because we had Pierce and we added Ray. LBJ and Bosh joined Wade. Howard went to Harden. LBJ went to Irving and Love. Melo went to Amare.

The common denominator is big names. There are exceptions for the scrappy starless teams. Houston managed to get in on Harden at just the right time - pre-RFA from a small-market team with 3 young guys already on the books for big extensions. Orlando got a great FA haul after Doc's COY campaign.

Without a tank, we're looking at adding mid- to low-level talent in waves, which is kind of what we've been doing for the last three years. Terry/Lee/Green/Bass/Sully/Fab, then Crawford/Brooks/Wallace/Hump/KO, then Smart/Young/Turner/Thornton/Zeller. The problem with this approach is it creates logjams of similarly talented mid-level players, logjams which make it hard for individuals to standout and don't really facilitate swaps for stars (apparently no one was interested in trading a star for any of the guys we've collected through this process).

We need to find someone we can build around.

Could there be anything more obvious than that?

The Celtics have finally decided that Rondo isn't that guy. So that was the first step.

And the second step is getting one of the bigs in the top 5 of this draft.

Possibly.

But that's just your opinion and as a fan isn't it also possible that you're just being impatient?

Maybe Ainge feels confident that there will be another draftee or current NBA player he can get to eventually fill that hole?

The danger of tanking is that you can lose what you have in place with your coach and system. Just saying. Be careful what you wish for. Tanking guarantees exactly nothing and more like we've seen this script before. Celtics tank and land just outside the picks where you get the guy or guys.

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Could there be anything more obvious than that?

The Celtics have finally decided that Rondo isn't that guy. So that was the first step.

And the second step is getting one of the bigs in the top 5 of this draft.

Possibly.

But that's just your opinion and as a fan isn't it also possible that you're just being impatient?

Maybe Ainge feels confident that there will be another draftee or current NBA player he can get to eventually fill that hole?

The danger of tanking is that you can lose what you have in place with your coach and system. Just saying. Be careful what you wish for. Tanking guarantees exactly nothing and more like we've seen this script before. Celtics tank and land just outside the picks where you get the guy or guys.

A system is useless without talent. Look at Phil's triangle in New York. It sucks when you don't have MJ or Kobe in it. Please. Who gives a rip about a system right now? We should have one focus and one focus only..........getting the BEST TALENT we can get. Period. I'd rather lose every game the rest of the season and get a Top 3 pick then win meaningless games for the good of our "system".

[threrf23]

This is slightly repetitive alongside Zaschrona's thread, but I think people are overlooking a few things:

a.) Just because Rondo would not sign an extension, does not necessarily mean he was due to jet in the offseason. I am not convinced that he would have signed a max extension with anybody. It was reasonable for him to want to become a uFA and test the waters for himself. In Dallas, he gets to play with a highly respected star, a highly respected coach, and Mark Cuban. It should help him put his experience in Boston in perspective, and to make a clearer decision regarding his thoughts on the franchise. It could actually make him more likely to choose to return here (hypothetically). While I do not necessarily think that we plan to resign Rondo in the offseason, I don't really think it is less likely now than it was a week ago.

b.) Jameer Nelson isn't a trade chip. IMO he is a mentor, he is a positive locker room influence, and if he opts in he becomes cheap depth that ensures our backcourt depth without really cutting into our cap space.

c.) We also got this guy named Jae Crowder. He isn't Michael Jordan, but fwiw statistically I have him as the league's 29th best defender last season. He is a little bit of a late bloomer, was liked by the stat community in the draft, he seems comparable to Marquis Daniels in respects - less of a ballhandler but a better shooter and less of an injury risk. He kinda fits that Danny Green / Bruce Bowen mold of guys who stand to be reasonably priced role players for X many years, may very well provide better value than AB looking to the future.

[humblebum]

deleted.

[humblebum]

And the second step is getting one of the bigs in the top 5 of this draft.

Possibly.

But that's just your opinion and as a fan isn't it also possible that you're just being impatient?

Maybe Ainge feels confident that there will be another draftee or current NBA player he can get to eventually fill that hole?

The danger of tanking is that you can lose what you have in place with your coach and system. Just saying. Be careful what you wish for. Tanking guarantees exactly nothing and more like we've seen this script before. Celtics tank and land just outside the picks where you get the guy or guys.

A system is useless without talent. Look at Phil's triangle in New York. It sucks when you don't have MJ or Kobe in it. Please. Who gives a rip about a system right now? We should have one focus and one focus only..........getting the BEST TALENT we can get. Period. I'd rather lose every game the rest of the season and get a Top 3 pick then win meaningless games for the good of our "system".

That's awesome for you. Pretty sure Philly is looking for fans and you'd fit in great over there.

It's funny though... because once you have those mega talents you so desperately wish for you still need a coach and system to put them in place to win.

It's great to land Cousins in the draft but it sucks when you get that guy and are still terrible because your coaching sucks and the rest of your roster looks like a d-league all star team.

[Banks2Pierce]

c.) We also got this guy named Jae Crowder. He isn't Michael Jordan, but fwiw statistically I have him as the league's 29th best defender last season.

Yea, I like Crowder. Do tend to wonder why his minutes have been capped by Carlisle, but RPM had him as the 15th ranked SF for last season. 16 MPG, though.

Seems he'll have a QO for this summer?

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Possibly.

But that's just your opinion and as a fan isn't it also possible that you're just being impatient?

Maybe Ainge feels confident that there will be another draftee or current NBA player he can get to eventually fill that hole?

The danger of tanking is that you can lose what you have in place with your coach and system. Just saying. Be careful what you wish for. Tanking guarantees exactly nothing and more like we've seen this script before. Celtics tank and land just outside the picks where you get the guy or guys.

A system is useless without talent. Look at Phil's triangle in New York. It sucks when you don't have MJ or Kobe in it. Please. Who gives a rip about a system right now? We should have one focus and one focus only..........getting the BEST TALENT we can get. Period. I'd rather lose every game the rest of the season and get a Top 3 pick then win meaningless games for the good of our "system".

That's awesome for you. Pretty sure Philly is looking for fans and you'd fit in great over there.

It's funny though... because once you have those mega talents you so desperately wish for you still need a coach and system to put them in place to win.

It's great to land Cousins in the draft but it sucks when you get that guy and are still terrible because your coaching sucks and the rest of your roster looks like a d-league all star team.

What's easier? Getting a STUD player or a STUD coach? Exactly. Don't answer, everyone already knows. That's why you get the STUD talent first and then worry about getting a STUD coach. Put Lebron on any team and see if you can't find a sh*tload of coaches lining up to coach him. Great coaches will coach anywhere if they have a STUD in place. Nobody gives a rip about a coach or "system" if the talent isn't in place. Nobody.

[Slartibartfast]

Not sure I agree that good teams get stars. KG joined our sorry squad because we had Pierce and we added Ray. LBJ and Bosh joined Wade. Howard went to Harden. LBJ went to Irving and Love. Melo went to Amare.

The common denominator is big names. There are exceptions for the scrappy starless teams. Houston managed to get in on Harden at just the right time - pre-RFA from a small-market team with 3 young guys already on the books for big extensions. Orlando got a great FA haul after Doc's COY campaign.

Without a tank, we're looking at adding mid- to low-level talent in waves, which is kind of what we've been doing for the last three years. Terry/Lee/Green/Bass/Sully/Fab, then Crawford/Brooks/Wallace/Hump/KO, then Smart/Young/Turner/Thornton/Zeller. The problem with this approach is it creates logjams of similarly talented mid-level players, logjams which make it hard for individuals to standout and don't really facilitate swaps for stars (apparently no one was interested in trading a star for any of the guys we've collected through this process).

We need to find someone we can build around.

KG came to Boston because Paul and Ray were here but mostly because he needed to leave where he was. The Heat won 47 games the year before Lebron went there. Sure playing with Wade and Bosh was part of it but in hindsight he is acting as if that is a mistake. CLE didn't really have anything when he went back except young talent Love came after.

Anthony and Amare is exactly what Ainge should be avoiding they were losers before they got them and still are losers now. There is no environment or culture they are just guys with huge pay checks and stat lines.

HOU, GS, PORT, MEM, IND that is what Ainge has to be looking at. These are his own words prior to the trade:

“My job is to look at all the different ways and path ways to be a championship team,” said Ainge. “This is the time of year where there’s a lot of talking and calling going on. Part of my job is to explore our way to the next championship.
“Everybody wants a star first, but in lieu of getting a star — because there are very few of those for the 30 teams — the next option is draft picks, which you hope to find the next star in the draft. You need swings of the bat, so that would be next,” explained Ainge. “The next thing would be good, solid players – guys who could play a role on the team.
“I think Celtics fans want to see good team basketball and winning basketball,” said Ainge. “We need to start moving in that direction. I don’t know if stars are required. It’s assumed in the NBA that stars are needed, and that’s true, but there have been some successful teams without a star. But I have every intention of finding stars; great players who have a positive effect on winning.
“Not stars who people want to watch, but stars who help with winning basketball,” he said.

Thanks for the full quote - hadn't seen that before.

But here's the thing: Danny's had plenty of swings at the bat in the middle of the draft and we're ending up with a lot of the same kind of player - guards who can't shoot, bigs who can't defend and wings who can't dribble or pass. And we're running out of room.

We need to get access to the VIP room. Free agency and trades don't look good right now. And drafting in the 10-30 range when you are looking for stars is not a good look.

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Not sure I agree that good teams get stars. KG joined our sorry squad because we had Pierce and we added Ray. LBJ and Bosh joined Wade. Howard went to Harden. LBJ went to Irving and Love. Melo went to Amare.

The common denominator is big names. There are exceptions for the scrappy starless teams. Houston managed to get in on Harden at just the right time - pre-RFA from a small-market team with 3 young guys already on the books for big extensions. Orlando got a great FA haul after Doc's COY campaign.

Without a tank, we're looking at adding mid- to low-level talent in waves, which is kind of what we've been doing for the last three years. Terry/Lee/Green/Bass/Sully/Fab, then Crawford/Brooks/Wallace/Hump/KO, then Smart/Young/Turner/Thornton/Zeller. The problem with this approach is it creates logjams of similarly talented mid-level players, logjams which make it hard for individuals to standout and don't really facilitate swaps for stars (apparently no one was interested in trading a star for any of the guys we've collected through this process).

We need to find someone we can build around.

KG came to Boston because Paul and Ray were here but mostly because he needed to leave where he was. The Heat won 47 games the year before Lebron went there. Sure playing with Wade and Bosh was part of it but in hindsight he is acting as if that is a mistake. CLE didn't really have anything when he went back except young talent Love came after.

Anthony and Amare is exactly what Ainge should be avoiding they were losers before they got them and still are losers now. There is no environment or culture they are just guys with huge pay checks and stat lines.

HOU, GS, PORT, MEM, IND that is what Ainge has to be looking at. These are his own words prior to the trade:

“My job is to look at all the different ways and path ways to be a championship team,” said Ainge. “This is the time of year where there’s a lot of talking and calling going on. Part of my job is to explore our way to the next championship.
“Everybody wants a star first, but in lieu of getting a star — because there are very few of those for the 30 teams — the next option is draft picks, which you hope to find the next star in the draft. You need swings of the bat, so that would be next,” explained Ainge. “The next thing would be good, solid players – guys who could play a role on the team.
“I think Celtics fans want to see good team basketball and winning basketball,” said Ainge. “We need to start moving in that direction. I don’t know if stars are required. It’s assumed in the NBA that stars are needed, and that’s true, but there have been some successful teams without a star. But I have every intention of finding stars; great players who have a positive effect on winning.
“Not stars who people want to watch, but stars who help with winning basketball,” he said.

Thanks for the full quote - hadn't seen that before.

But here's the thing: Danny's had plenty of swings at the bat in the middle of the draft and we're ending up with a lot of the same kind of player - guards who can't shoot, bigs who can't defend and wings who can't dribble or pass. And we're running out of room.

We need to get access to the VIP room. Free agency and trades don't look good right now. And drafting in the 10-30 range when you are looking for stars is not a good look.

THANK YOU. Well said.

[humblebum]

A system is useless without talent. Look at Phil's triangle in New York. It sucks when you don't have MJ or Kobe in it. Please. Who gives a rip about a system right now? We should have one focus and one focus only..........getting the BEST TALENT we can get. Period. I'd rather lose every game the rest of the season and get a Top 3 pick then win meaningless games for the good of our "system".

That's awesome for you. Pretty sure Philly is looking for fans and you'd fit in great over there.

It's funny though... because once you have those mega talents you so desperately wish for you still need a coach and system to put them in place to win.

It's great to land Cousins in the draft but it sucks when you get that guy and are still terrible because your coaching sucks and the rest of your roster looks like a d-league all star team.

What's easier? Getting a STUD player or a STUD coach? Exactly. Don't answer, everyone already knows. That's why you get the STUD talent first and then worry about getting a STUD coach. Put Lebron on any team and see if you can't find a sh*tload of coaches lining up to coach him. Great coaches will coach anywhere if they have a STUD in place. Nobody gives a rip about a coach or "system" if the talent isn't in place. Nobody.

My friend you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Belichick isn't a coach in New England there is no Tom Brady.

Coaches don't just coach. They know the game in and out and can help you identify, choose and develop players.

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That's awesome for you. Pretty sure Philly is looking for fans and you'd fit in great over there.

It's funny though... because once you have those mega talents you so desperately wish for you still need a coach and system to put them in place to win.

It's great to land Cousins in the draft but it sucks when you get that guy and are still terrible because your coaching sucks and the rest of your roster looks like a d-league all star team.

What's easier? Getting a STUD player or a STUD coach? Exactly. Don't answer, everyone already knows. That's why you get the STUD talent first and then worry about getting a STUD coach. Put Lebron on any team and see if you can't find a sh*tload of coaches lining up to coach him. Great coaches will coach anywhere if they have a STUD in place. Nobody gives a rip about a coach or "system" if the talent isn't in place. Nobody.

My friend you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Belichick isn't a coach in New England there is no Tom Brady.

Coaches don't just coach. They know the game in and out and can help you identify, choose and develop players.

WTF? we are talking about the NBA son............not the NFL. Two totally different animals. Cmon guy.......

[humblebum]

What's easier? Getting a STUD player or a STUD coach? Exactly. Don't answer, everyone already knows. That's why you get the STUD talent first and then worry about getting a STUD coach. Put Lebron on any team and see if you can't find a sh*tload of coaches lining up to coach him. Great coaches will coach anywhere if they have a STUD in place. Nobody gives a rip about a coach or "system" if the talent isn't in place. Nobody.

My friend you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Belichick isn't a coach in New England there is no Tom Brady.

Coaches don't just coach. They know the game in and out and can help you identify, choose and develop players.

WTF? we are talking about the NBA son............not the NFL. Two totally different animals. Cmon guy.......

You're grasping at straws now.

Drafting, player evaluation isn't much different from sport to sport.

Coaches know a ton about the game and they help you evaluate and choose talent.

Which is what we are talking about here right. Drafting the right players?

[Ben-N1ce]

That's awesome for you. Pretty sure Philly is looking for fans and you'd fit in great over there.

It's funny though... because once you have those mega talents you so desperately wish for you still need a coach and system to put them in place to win.

It's great to land Cousins in the draft but it sucks when you get that guy and are still terrible because your coaching sucks and the rest of your roster looks like a d-league all star team.

What's easier? Getting a STUD player or a STUD coach? Exactly. Don't answer, everyone already knows. That's why you get the STUD talent first and then worry about getting a STUD coach. Put Lebron on any team and see if you can't find a sh*tload of coaches lining up to coach him. Great coaches will coach anywhere if they have a STUD in place. Nobody gives a rip about a coach or "system" if the talent isn't in place. Nobody.

My friend you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Belichick isn't a coach in New England there is no Tom Brady.

Coaches don't just coach. They know the game in and out and can help you identify, choose and develop players.

I understand your point but using Brady as an example is silly. If Belichick knew he was so good he sure the hell wouldn't have waited until the 6th round.

[Slartibartfast]

Could there be anything more obvious than that?

The Celtics have finally decided that Rondo isn't that guy. So that was the first step.

And the second step is getting one of the bigs in the top 5 of this draft.

Possibly.

But that's just your opinion and as a fan isn't it also possible that you're just being impatient?

Maybe Ainge feels confident that there will be another draftee or current NBA player he can get to eventually fill that hole?

The danger of tanking is that you can lose what you have in place with your coach and system. Just saying. Be careful what you wish for. Tanking guarantees exactly nothing and more like we've seen this script before. Celtics tank and land just outside the picks where you get the guy or guys.

It's not impatience, it's looking at the opportunities available and picking the best route.

I know the dangers of tanking and have argued it against it in the past, but that was when we had something to preserve. Trading Rondo for cents on the dollar indicates that we aren't trying to preserve anything - we're making a full break with the past and starting a new hunt for our future through the draft.

I'm not calling for anything like the Philly tank. But the Rondo peers - Jeff Green and Brandon Bass - should be out of here ASAP. Ditto Brandan Wright. We've still got guys like Wallace, Nelson, AB and Thornton to model veteran behavior to the young guys.

Let the young guys take their lumps in a semi-respectable tank.

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My friend you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Belichick isn't a coach in New England there is no Tom Brady.

Coaches don't just coach. They know the game in and out and can help you identify, choose and develop players.

WTF? we are talking about the NBA son............not the NFL. Two totally different animals. Cmon guy.......

You're grasping at straws now.

Drafting, player evaluation isn't much different from sport to sport.

Coaches know a ton about the game and they help you evaluate and choose talent.

Which is what we are talking about here right. Drafting the right players?

Bro, this is the NBA..............you aren't finding Top 5 ALL-TIME players at their position in the history of the got damn game in the 6th rd or undrafted list(the NBA only has two rds!) like Belichick did with Brady. Are you e9ffin kidding me? In the NBA you are finding FRANCHISE Hall of Fame, Top 5 at their position talents in the Top 5 of the NBA draft. Period. End of story. Case closed. Turn out the lights. Give granny her pills. Put grandpa's crusty ass to bed. Good nite. Cmon man...........

[humblebum]

What's easier? Getting a STUD player or a STUD coach? Exactly. Don't answer, everyone already knows. That's why you get the STUD talent first and then worry about getting a STUD coach. Put Lebron on any team and see if you can't find a sh*tload of coaches lining up to coach him. Great coaches will coach anywhere if they have a STUD in place. Nobody gives a rip about a coach or "system" if the talent isn't in place. Nobody.

My friend you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Belichick isn't a coach in New England there is no Tom Brady.

Coaches don't just coach. They know the game in and out and can help you identify, choose and develop players.

I understand your point but using Brady as an example is silly. If Belichick knew he was so good he sure the hell wouldn't have waited until the 6th round.

It's not silly at all actually because he drafted him when he knew he could get him (at the right price). He stuck with him when he easily could've gotten cut. Then gave him the nod when the "star" went down. And stuck with him when the star returned.

Stars can be found, kept and developed in much the same manner in the NBA.

Having that coach who can see that this guy or that has something special is a huge part of building a winner. Do we really think Pop had no hand in picking the players in SA?

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My friend you have no idea what you're talking about.

If Belichick isn't a coach in New England there is no Tom Brady.

Coaches don't just coach. They know the game in and out and can help you identify, choose and develop players.

I understand your point but using Brady as an example is silly. If Belichick knew he was so good he sure the hell wouldn't have waited until the 6th round.

It's not silly at all actually because he drafted him when he knew he could get him (at the right price). He stuck with him when he easily could've gotten cut. Then gave him the nod when the "star" went down. And stuck with him when the star returned.

Stars can be found, kept and developed in much the same manner in the NBA.

Having that coach who can see that this guy or that has something special is a huge part of building a winner. Do we really think Pop had no hand in picking the players in SA?

The Spurs???????????? How many titles does Pop own if he never got Duncan at #1??????????????? Z-E-R-O. Jesus.

[humblebum]

WTF? we are talking about the NBA son............not the NFL. Two totally different animals. Cmon guy.......

You're grasping at straws now.

Drafting, player evaluation isn't much different from sport to sport.

Coaches know a ton about the game and they help you evaluate and choose talent.

Which is what we are talking about here right. Drafting the right players?

Bro, this is the NBA..............you aren't finding Top 5 ALL-TIME players at their position in the history of the got damn game in the 6th rd or undrafted list(the NBA only has two rds!) like Belichick did with Brady. Are you e9ffin kidding me? In the NBA you are finding FRANCHISE Hall of Fame, Top 5 at their position talents in the Top 5 of the NBA draft. Period. End of story. Case closed. Turn out the lights. Give granny her pills. Put grandpa's crusty ass to bed. Good nite. Cmon man...........

And yet this statement is patently false.

Kobe Bryant. Paul Pierce. Manu Ginobli. Tony Parker. Steve Nash.

[humblebum]

I understand your point but using Brady as an example is silly. If Belichick knew he was so good he sure the hell wouldn't have waited until the 6th round.

It's not silly at all actually because he drafted him when he knew he could get him (at the right price). He stuck with him when he easily could've gotten cut. Then gave him the nod when the "star" went down. And stuck with him when the star returned.

Stars can be found, kept and developed in much the same manner in the NBA.

Having that coach who can see that this guy or that has something special is a huge part of building a winner. Do we really think Pop had no hand in picking the players in SA?

The Spurs???????????? How many titles does Pop own if he never got Duncan at #1??????????????? Z-E-R-O. Jesus.

Okay and how many does that franchise win without Manu and Tony Parker?