The Giannis Antetokounmpo Thread

[NO-KG-AI]

He hasn't shown any sign of being a dominant player on either end. I don't mean being pretty good, I mean being a top tier player.

And as for the defense thing... no. He is a perimeter player defensively. He hasn't shown the ability to protect the rim or anything of that sort that would make him a top tier defensive player. Where do you think he's going to make his mark that puts him above everyone but Davis? Is he going to magically become an elite shotblocker and big man defender, despite never showing any sign of that? Is he going to be the best perimeter defender of all time, to the point that he puts himself on par with elite bigs?

I think you're being way overzealous.

Giannis has been matched up with the opposing teams PF and C quite often this season, he does a good job defending every position besides point guards. He still has weight to put on.

By your logic, you have to be a center to be a dominant defender. Don't really understand this. Giannis could be one of the best defenders in the league, is that not good enough? Don't get this argument at all. We have our "anchor" In Sanders anyway. Is Paul George not a dominant, game changing defender because he isn't a center?

Paul George isn't dominant, but that's not really the point... You don't have to be a big man to be a great defender, but you said he could surpass everyone but Davis, which would make him a top 2 defender, which would put him above a bunch of bigs that he will never have a bigger impact than.

Guarding his own man isn't so much the deal breaker to why he doesn't have top 2 defensive potential though. The only guys that weren't dominant rim protectors or shot challengers that were guys that were creating so much havoc with steals and blocks that they were creating a ton of opportunity for easy shots, and completely negating possessions( Someone like Jordan getting 3 steals and 1.5 blocks per game is a good example). Outside of that of that, you basically have to be a big man that is protecting the paint, while also being great in the pick and roll.

He's a 1 steal/1 block kind of guy, and I don't think he'll ever be the size necessary to really take the paint away from another team, nor will he suddenly become a guy that just creates massive turnovers.

[Magic Giannison]

Yet another game where Giannis is the best player ( by far) and he gets almost no chances at the 4th quarter.
The heck is going, i really wonder how many shots Giannis takes per game.

[KD35Brah]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Ho8AWEfcU[/youtube]

[mattg]

He hasn't shown any sign of being a dominant player on either end. I don't mean being pretty good, I mean being a top tier player.

And as for the defense thing... no. He is a perimeter player defensively. He hasn't shown the ability to protect the rim or anything of that sort that would make him a top tier defensive player. Where do you think he's going to make his mark that puts him above everyone but Davis? Is he going to magically become an elite shotblocker and big man defender, despite never showing any sign of that? Is he going to be the best perimeter defender of all time, to the point that he puts himself on par with elite bigs?

I think you're being way overzealous.

Giannis has the same thing going for him that a guy like kawhi Leonard does, ability to guard perimeter players but possesses the length of a big. Giannis can guard wings yet he has legit center length. It let's a team be very versatile defensively and guys like that cause havoc playing help defense and by how they disrupt an offenses' passing with their length. Look at every single game highlight package posted of Giannis, at least once a game he picks off skip passes and starts a fast break.

As for being an interior defender who can anchor, you need to be put in a position to do that reliably, as a pelicans fan you should know that of all people. Think about Davis his first two seasons, where he was constantly out on the perimeter hedging really hard and defending out in space, and his ability to protect the paint sucked impact wise. He gets moved closer to the hoop and is told to play less zealous and just protect the rim and his defensive impact skyrockets.

Giannis just needs time. His game could develop in a Number of different directions. Not hard at all to envision him being an elite help defender, very strong rebounder, guy who can switch literally every screen, and very good perimeter defender on wings. In all likelihood he becomes a PF defensively when it's all said and done and IMO his only real defensive weaknesses will be trying to guard the biggest bodied guys man to man down low and the quickest PGs off the dribble. His potential on the defensive end is pretty scary, and if you can't see that than I frankly don't know what/if you are watching,

[NO-KG-AI]

He hasn't shown any sign of being a dominant player on either end. I don't mean being pretty good, I mean being a top tier player.

And as for the defense thing... no. He is a perimeter player defensively. He hasn't shown the ability to protect the rim or anything of that sort that would make him a top tier defensive player. Where do you think he's going to make his mark that puts him above everyone but Davis? Is he going to magically become an elite shotblocker and big man defender, despite never showing any sign of that? Is he going to be the best perimeter defender of all time, to the point that he puts himself on par with elite bigs?

I think you're being way overzealous.

Giannis has the same thing going for him that a guy like kawhi Leonard does, ability to guard perimeter players but possesses the length of a big. Giannis can guard wings yet he has legit center length. It let's a team be very versatile defensively and guys like that cause havoc playing help defense and by how they disrupt an offenses' passing with their length. Look at every single game highlight package posted of Giannis, at least once a game he picks off skip passes and starts a fast break.

As for being an interior defender who can anchor, you need to be put in a position to do that reliably, as a pelicans fan you should know that of all people. Think about Davis his first two seasons, where he was constantly out on the perimeter hedging really hard and defending out in space, and his ability to protect the paint sucked impact wise. He gets moved closer to the hoop and is told to play less zealous and just protect the rim and his defensive impact skyrockets.

Giannis just needs time. His game could develop in a Number of different directions. Not hard at all to envision him being an elite help defender, very strong rebounder, guy who can switch literally every screen, and very good perimeter defender on wings. In all likelihood he becomes a PF defensively when it's all said and done and IMO his only real defensive weaknesses will be trying to guard the biggest bodied guys man to man down low and the quickest PGs off the dribble. His potential on the defensive end is pretty scary, and if you can't see that than I frankly don't know what/if you are watching,

Yea, I could see him being Kawhi Leonard on defense. Can't see him being an all time anchor. I don't think he has the offensive prowess to match guys like LeBron, Durant, the big name PGs, among other guys. If he can't match them on that end, he has to be a defensive anchoring big man, not merely a standout perimeter defender, to get into the top 5.

Think about Scottie Pippen. I don't think Giannis will be as good on either end as Scottie was, and Scottie was at his peak, probably in the bottom half of the top 10. (He has two top 5 MVP finishes, but I don't think he was top 5 in either year.)

I could see him turning out as a lesser version of Scottie at his very peak. That would be an awesome player, but not a perennial top 5, franchise carrying superstar.

Now if he continues to add bulk, and learns to turn that length into a real ability to change the game in the paint on the defensive end, then all bets are off, he could reach any level really, but I just don't see it.

[AussieBuck]

I think the biggest problem outside people have imagining how high his ceiling is involves them seeing him as some kind of Durant bodied guy. He'll be 240+ by the end of his rookie contract. He's a C with amazing agility/coordination/stride length. Sure if he wasn't a high IQ guy you could point to a few other guys with amazing tools who didn't get there but that isn't the case here.

[mattg]

I think the biggest problem outside people have imagining how high his ceiling is involves them seeing him as some kind of Durant bodied guy. He'll be 240+ by the end of his rookie contract. He's a C with amazing agility/coordination/stride length. Sure if he wasn't a high IQ guy you could point to a few other guys with amazing tools who didn't get there but that isn't the case here.

Yeah body wise he will bulk up like Anthony Davis has. You can already tell with his broad shoulders and muscular definition that he's going to be much bigger frame wise than Durant. It's going to be interesting to see how he retains his coordination as he gains weight. Right now, he moves better laterally than either Durant or Davis ever showed as a perimeter defender, and if he keeps that while getting bigger, watch out.

In terms of offense it's hard to project how Giannis ends up, He has the potential to be literally anything on that end. For sure he's going to be one of the best transition players in the league, excellent at getting to the line/being an aggressive driver especially against any sort of mismatch, slashing/cutting, and a solid offensive rebounder. Depending on his activity level he could score mid-high teens without even needing sets designed around getting him the ball. Now give him the ball a few times a game at the High post where he can face/drive/post, act as a screener/handoff guy, maybe his J improves to respectable levels, etc. it's not like it's crazy to picture him as a low 20s scorer. I mean, if he turned into a strong shooter(unlikely) he becomes basically unguardable.

[lilojmayo]

So, is he still overhyped?

Depends on who you ask. He's still an average player, and a nice prospect. To people who think he's some amazing point guard type, Magic Johnson style tall player? Yea, way overhyped.

Edit: that said, I don't think he's going to become a top tier star, but I'd KILL to have him as one of my forwards going forward right now.[/quote]

Yeah , I don't believe the Giannis hype anymore. I hope I eat my words , but his offense game limits him , along with question outside jump shot .

he will most likely be Andre Iguodala tier in his prime , maybe slightly better

[AussieBuck]

I think the biggest problem outside people have imagining how high his ceiling is involves them seeing him as some kind of Durant bodied guy. He'll be 240+ by the end of his rookie contract. He's a C with amazing agility/coordination/stride length. Sure if he wasn't a high IQ guy you could point to a few other guys with amazing tools who didn't get there but that isn't the case here.

Yeah body wise he will bulk up like Anthony Davis has. You can already tell with his broad shoulders and muscular definition that he's going to be much bigger frame wise than Durant. It's going to be interesting to see how he retains his coordination as he gains weight. Right now, he moves better laterally than either Durant or Davis ever showed as a perimeter defender, and if he keeps that while getting bigger, watch out.

In terms of offense it's hard to project how Giannis ends up, He has the potential to be literally anything on that end. For sure he's going to be one of the best transition players in the league, excellent at getting to the line/being an aggressive driver especially against any sort of mismatch, slashing/cutting, and a solid offensive rebounder. Depending on his activity level he could score mid-high teens without even needing sets designed around getting him the ball. Now give him the ball a few times a game at the High post where he can face/drive/post, act as a screener/handoff guy, maybe his J improves to respectable levels, etc. it's not like it's crazy to picture him as a low 20s scorer. I mean, if he turned into a strong shooter(unlikely) he becomes basically unguardable.

I think it's a shame we've seen so little of his post game. Defenders have no idea how to deal with a who can cover that much ground in a step with their back to the basket. The three post ups he got against the Blazers C who's name temporarily escapes me were just no contest, then there's the up and under against Barnes maybe? where he casually banks it in one handed from about 12 feet. IMO it's a waste of those super hands to not have him in the low post at least for a few reps a game beyond just giving up on it as soon as that double comes. Maybe we'll get there once Kidd gives up on Knight.

[mattg]

I just don't understand why Kidd doesn't have Giannis operate as the high post big in the starting lineup. He puts Larry freakin Sanders there as the screener/roll man/decision maker, all things Larry pretty much sucks at. Giannis would do very well in the exact same spot and we run that set nonstop.

[JumpingJiri]

I think this kids going to be a stud. He's a 7-footer with an elite first step to the basket,he also has the ability to draw fouls and get to the line which he's knocking down fts at a much higher rate this year. I think when he's done growing and his frame fills out he's going to be a mismatch to almost anyone on the floor, he already is a mismatch to most players as a skinny 20 year old. I think he's a jumpshot away from being very,very hard to guard as players will have to play up and he will blow by them with his elite first step. The only thing that is really hindering his development right know is brandon knight playing pg, once that experiments over with I think Giannis will take off as a player.

[H2tObes]

All I can think of when I watch Giannis is if he gets a jumpshot then I really don't know how you deal with him. A lot of people say he is going to take a backseat when it comes to scoring ala Odom or Kirilenko..but I'm getting more convinced every single game that Giannis will be scoring a lot, especially if he gets a jumpshot. The fact he's exceeding expectations for this season is scary though.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Ho8AWEfcU[/youtube]

The clip at 1:30 where he just burns everyone in transition by himself then finishing with his offhand is just crazy. He's like a create a player in 2k really

[JumpingJiri]

All I can think of when I watch Giannis is if he gets a jumpshot then I really don't know how you deal with him. A lot of people say he is going to take a backseat when it comes to scoring ala Odom or Kirilenko..but I'm getting more convinced every single game that Giannis will be scoring a lot, especially if he gets a jumpshot. The fact he's exceeding expectations for this season is scary though

I agree with everything said in this. when he was first showing sign of potential I thought he'd be a second banana, but now he's not just showing flashes of top play he's showing whole games of being elite, take the clippers game for example he was obviously the best player on the court, he had 18 points 9 rebounds and 6 ast and didn't even touch the ball in the 4th quarter. I think his jump shot will come along to at least be respectable, there have been numerous players to come in the league where there jumper wasn't a strong suit and turned it into at least respectable if not more, Lebrons jumper wasn't his strong suit coming into the league either, he didn't even get respectable from 3 until his second year in Miami, I'm confident Giannis jumper will come with time because in my opinion you can make a good jump shooter from repetitions. I think the only people that think he's only going to be average haven't watched bucks games.

[KyletheDingbat]

All I can think of when I watch Giannis is if he gets a jumpshot then I really don't know how you deal with him. A lot of people say he is going to take a backseat when it comes to scoring ala Odom or Kirilenko..but I'm getting more convinced every single game that Giannis will be scoring a lot, especially if he gets a jumpshot. The fact he's exceeding expectations for this season is scary though.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Ho8AWEfcU[/youtube]

The clip at 1:30 where he just burns everyone in transition by himself then finishing with his offhand is just crazy. He's like a create a player in 2k really

I don't know how anyone can doubt that Giannis will be a top 5 player very soon. Of the games I've seen of him, I've never seen him dog it, and I've never seen him look out-matched, but I HAVE seen him do things I've never seen anyone else do. His talent to me is every bit as obvious as Anthony Davis, and I wouldn't doubt for a second that he tops out as an MVP, DPOY, whatever he wants. The caveat here is that I've only seen a handful of his games this year. But he's been a major plus in each of them. Can someone hear point out his weaknesses and reasons he can't be one of the best in the league?

[Dcebucks11]

All I can think of when I watch Giannis is if he gets a jumpshot then I really don't know how you deal with him. A lot of people say he is going to take a backseat when it comes to scoring ala Odom or Kirilenko..but I'm getting more convinced every single game that Giannis will be scoring a lot, especially if he gets a jumpshot. The fact he's exceeding expectations for this season is scary though.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Ho8AWEfcU[/youtube]

The clip at 1:30 where he just burns everyone in transition by himself then finishing with his offhand is just crazy. He's like a create a player in 2k really

I don't know how anyone can doubt that Giannis will be a top 5 player very soon. Of the games I've seen of him, I've never seen him dog it, and I've never seen him look out-matched, but I HAVE seen him do things I've never seen anyone else do. His talent to me is every bit as obvious as Anthony Davis, and I wouldn't doubt for a second that he tops out as an MVP, DPOY, whatever he wants. The caveat here is that I've only seen a handful of his games this year. But he's been a major plus in each of them. Can someone hear point out his weaknesses and reasons he can't be one of the best in the league?

lol chill out man top 5 is a very big stretch.

[Dcebucks11]

I think this kids going to be a stud. He's a 7-footer with an elite first step to the basket,he also has the ability to draw fouls and get to the line which he's knocking down fts at a much higher rate this year. I think when he's done growing and his frame fills out he's going to be a mismatch to almost anyone on the floor, he already is a mismatch to most players as a skinny 20 year old. I think he's a jumpshot away from being very,very hard to guard as players will have to play up and he will blow by them with his elite first step. The only thing that is really hindering his development right know is brandon knight playing pg, once that experiments over with I think Giannis will take off as a player.

wouldn't say he has an elite 1st step but he has elite strides .. Yes knight is terrible at finding him.. Bucks needs a PG who doesn't put his head down every drive.

[JumpingJiri]

I think this kids going to be a stud. He's a 7-footer with an elite first step to the basket,he also has the ability to draw fouls and get to the line which he's knocking down fts at a much higher rate this year. I think when he's done growing and his frame fills out he's going to be a mismatch to almost anyone on the floor, he already is a mismatch to most players as a skinny 20 year old. I think he's a jumpshot away from being very,very hard to guard as players will have to play up and he will blow by them with his elite first step. The only thing that is really hindering his development right know is brandon knight playing pg, once that experiments over with I think Giannis will take off as a player.

wouldn't say he has an elite 1st step but he has elite strides .. Yes knight is terrible at finding him.. Bucks needs a PG who doesn't put his head down every drive.

Yeah his first step is so quick and long that defenders don't have time to react and recover cause one step and he's from the 3pt line halfway to the rim, thus making it an elite first step. His combination of quickness,coordination, and length is scary, and the fact that he's realizing now when to post up and when to drive is even that much more promising.

[breakchains]

His first step isn't that quick. It takes him a bit to get going. But his stride length combined with his handle is something no one has ever really dealt with, and he can go either way with it, so guys really have no clue how to guard him when he's on the move.

[breakchains]

All I can think of when I watch Giannis is if he gets a jumpshot then I really don't know how you deal with him. A lot of people say he is going to take a backseat when it comes to scoring ala Odom or Kirilenko..but I'm getting more convinced every single game that Giannis will be scoring a lot, especially if he gets a jumpshot. The fact he's exceeding expectations for this season is scary though.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Ho8AWEfcU[/youtube]

The clip at 1:30 where he just burns everyone in transition by himself then finishing with his offhand is just crazy. He's like a create a player in 2k really

I don't know how anyone can doubt that Giannis will be a top 5 player very soon. Of the games I've seen of him, I've never seen him dog it, and I've never seen him look out-matched, but I HAVE seen him do things I've never seen anyone else do. His talent to me is every bit as obvious as Anthony Davis, and I wouldn't doubt for a second that he tops out as an MVP, DPOY, whatever he wants. The caveat here is that I've only seen a handful of his games this year. But he's been a major plus in each of them. Can someone hear point out his weaknesses and reasons he can't be one of the best in the league?

Right now, the only true question mark about his game is his shot.

What people don't know about his game is that he has elite level feel for the game and court vision.

[RSCD3_]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Ho8AWEfcU[/youtube]

Man he has an insane ball handling for his size better than KD and he drives very low just like a guard


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