Nets and Kings discussing trade for Deron Williams. Yuck!!!

[F3LON]

This trade would probably work

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=povzcz6

Nets get: Josh Smith, Collison, Derrick Williams, Det firsts rounder(protected)
Det get: J Thompson, Nik Stauskas
Sac gets: DWill and Mirza

Detroit needs a SG and a floor spacer. They get Michigan's own Nik Stauskas.

Sac wanted Plumlee to play PF but get Mirza instead.

The Nets are reluctant to take on Smith but Detroit's draft pick makes it happen.

Plumlee - Lopez - Jordan
Garnett - DWill2 - CJ
J Smith - Bogs
Johnson - Anderson - Karasev
Collison - Jack

Detroit would want Teletovic to pair with Drummond and there is a large Bosnian community in Det.

Either way I think all these deals are dead now till trade deadline. Especially now that Deron is hobbled again.

Depends on if they want to keep Monroe. Getting rid of Smith frees up money for Monroe. Bogs is also Bosnian. Nets get Stauskas and Det gets Bogs then.

[MrDollarBills]

Trading Plumlee is a no go. I dunno if its worth the cost to get rid of D-Will and lose our most promising young player.

[Prokorov]

Here's how I see it. Stauskas, Derrick Williams, Jason Thompson for Deron is the King's offer. It actually works, they don't need to include Collison, and it makes a lot of sense. They would be literally getting Deron for garbage. We actually save some money this year, if we do this trade. However, Nets want Collison included because they need a starting PG in return. Kings don't want to give up Collison without getting Plumlee back.

But F3LON said it right, Deron at his worst is Collison's ceiling. So we would be selling low right now. They're pretty much the same statistically right now, but Deron is the much better player. Especially for the Kings, where the Kings roster would be better suited to Deron than this slow, aging Nets roster. I mostly certainly wouldn't give up Plumlee, unless we're getting McLemore in return. I'm sure they wouldn't give up McLemore either.

how is deron the much better player? even the biggest nets homer cant say williams is more athletic or a better defender, and offensively collison is playing just as well.

this isnt 25 year old dwill, its 30 year old dwill. he isnt "much" better then collison.

[DarkXaero]

Here's how I see it. Stauskas, Derrick Williams, Jason Thompson for Deron is the King's offer. It actually works, they don't need to include Collison, and it makes a lot of sense. They would be literally getting Deron for garbage. We actually save some money this year, if we do this trade. However, Nets want Collison included because they need a starting PG in return. Kings don't want to give up Collison without getting Plumlee back.

But F3LON said it right, Deron at his worst is Collison's ceiling. So we would be selling low right now. They're pretty much the same statistically right now, but Deron is the much better player. Especially for the Kings, where the Kings roster would be better suited to Deron than this slow, aging Nets roster. I mostly certainly wouldn't give up Plumlee, unless we're getting McLemore in return. I'm sure they wouldn't give up McLemore either.

how is deron the much better player? even the biggest nets homer cant say williams is more athletic or a better defender, and offensively collison is playing just as well.

this isnt 25 year old dwill, its 30 year old dwill. he isnt "much" better then collison.

Much better facilitator/floor general. Also a better scorer and shooter.

[MrDollarBills]

And is also being massively overpaid for the same amount of production.

[Archerbro]

This trade would probably work

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=povzcz6

Nets get: Josh Smith, Collison, Derrick Williams, Det firsts rounder(protected)
Det get: J Thompson, Nik Stauskas
Sac gets: DWill and Mirza

Detroit needs a SG and a floor spacer. They get Michigan's own Nik Stauskas.

Sac wanted Plumlee to play PF but get Mirza instead.

The Nets are reluctant to take on Smith but Detroit's draft pick makes it happen.

Plumlee - Lopez - Jordan
Garnett - DWill2 - CJ
J Smith - Bogs
Johnson - Anderson - Karasev
Collison - Jack

Detroit would want Teletovic to pair with Drummond and there is a large Bosnian community in Det.

Either way I think all these deals are dead now till trade deadline. Especially now that Deron is hobbled again.

Depends on if they want to keep Monroe. Getting rid of Smith frees up money for Monroe. Bogs is also Bosnian. Nets get Stauskas and Det gets Bogs then.

Smith's numbers still count against the cap for Detroit,

and they technically still are paying Smih, so I think Monroe is still gone after this year for Detroit. I think they'll S & T him.

[SacTown Kings]

As a Kings fan I hope this deal doesnt go thru (and no Bmac wont be included in the trade), it's tolerable with Plumlee but D-Will? yuck! I'd rather have Collison, at this point he is just as good, healthier, younger, and at a fraction of D-Will's salary. D-Will is actually a huge negative, Nets would have to add Plumlee otherwise who the hell would want to take on D-Will, what would the incentive be?

[MrDollarBills]

As a Kings fan I hope this deal doesnt go thru (and no Bmac wont be included in the trade), it's tolerable with Plumlee but D-Will? yuck! I'd rather have Collison, at this point he is just as good, healthier, younger, and at a fraction of D-Will's salary. D-Will is actually a huge negative, Nets would have to add Plumlee otherwise who the hell would want to take on D-Will, what would the incentive be?

I totally agree. We'd be robbing you blind. If we include Plumlee, then you're taking us to the woodshed.

[Paradise]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/nydninternets/status/547577109506699265[/tweet]

[jeff1624]

As a Kings fan I hope this deal doesnt go thru (and no Bmac wont be included in the trade), it's tolerable with Plumlee but D-Will? yuck! I'd rather have Collison, at this point he is just as good, healthier, younger, and at a fraction of D-Will's salary. D-Will is actually a huge negative, Nets would have to add Plumlee otherwise who the hell would want to take on D-Will, what would the incentive be?

Darren Mr. 5 teams in 6 years Collison isn't as good as Deron. I do agree that Collison at his salary is a better bargain, but in terms of basketball ability? Yeah, no.

[F3LON]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/nydninternets/status/547577109506699265[/tweet]

Ive been saying this for a while.

Johnson has been flat out gold without Lopez and DWill.

Ive also been screaming from the rooftops that Plumlee and Jack should be playing alot more and that Mirza is a very bad player.

People gave up on Plumlee real fast and never gave Jack a chance.

Plumlee was never going to stay below 50% for long due to the nature of how he plays but that was all people wanted to focus on. I focused on his rebounding and defense and both were much improved whenever he played. He still has to improve in these areas but guess what, he's only in his second year. He's averaging a double double as a starter and he isnt even boxing out properly. That's easy to coach/learn. What's not easy to coach/learn is Plumlee's nose for the ball and his abilty to just outjump people. His ceiling is still ridiculously high as a rebounder.

Jack on the other hand was getting settled in. He is on his 3rd team in as many years and Cleveland was toxic last year. He looks like he is getting comfortable in his role and building chemistry with his teammates. He is the only player on the team who can consistently beat his man off the dribble and draw defenders in the paint to free up our 3pt shooters.

Mirza is the equivalent of Anthony Morrow. Once or twice a month he will hit 6-8 threes in a game and the average fan is excited. What you dont see, or choose to ignore is how bad he is at everything else. He gets lost on defense because he watches the ball causing Plumlee or Jordan to come off their man and help him and leave a big open in the paint with only guards to pick him up. He gets overpowered in the post by average bigs. He gives up rebounds even though he has positioning. I cant watch him give up another offensive rebound off of a missed FT. The worst part is that he isnt even that good on offense. As of today he is only shooting 33.6% on 3pt.

[Shook Jones]

Mirza has been bad lately. I'd move him with Dwill as I said b4.

Team is flat out better without Dwill on the floor and thats a shame.

[SV1113]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/nydninternets/status/547577109506699265[/tweet]

Ive been saying this for a while.

Johnson has been flat out gold without Lopez and DWill.

Ive also been screaming from the rooftops that Plumlee and Jack should be playing alot more and that Mirza is a very bad player.

People gave up on Plumlee real fast and never gave Jack a chance.

Plumlee was never going to stay below 50% for long due to the nature of how he plays but that was all people wanted to focus on. I focused on his rebounding and defense and both were much improved whenever he played. He still has to improve in these areas but guess what, he's only in his second year. He's averaging a double double as a starter and he isnt even boxing out properly. That's easy to coach/learn. What's not easy to coach/learn is Plumlee's nose for the ball and his abilty to just outjump people. His ceiling is still ridiculously high as a rebounder.

Jack on the other hand was getting settled in. He is on his 3rd team in as many years and Cleveland was toxic last year. He looks like he is getting comfortable in his role and building chemistry with his teammates. He is the only player on the team who can consistently beat his man off the dribble and draw defenders in the paint to free up our 3pt shooters.

Mirza is the equivalent of Anthony Morrow. Once or twice a month he will hit 6-8 threes in a game and the average fan is excited. What you dont see, or choose to ignore is how bad he is at everything else. He gets lost on defense because he watches the ball causing Plumlee or Jordan to come off their man and help him and leave a big open in the paint with only guards to pick him up. He gets overpowered in the post by average bigs. He gives up rebounds even though he has positioning. I cant watch him give up another offensive rebound off of a missed FT. The worst part is that he isnt even that good on offense. As of today he is only shooting 33.6% on 3pt.

everyone claims D-Will has his explosion back, but he doesnt get to the rim, in fact he barely gets by his guy off the dribble anymore. Jack consistently gets in the painted area. Deron is too heavy up top, even if its muscle instead of fat he needs speed at this age not strength

[NyCeEvO]

As a Kings fan I hope this deal doesnt go thru (and no Bmac wont be included in the trade), it's tolerable with Plumlee but D-Will? yuck! I'd rather have Collison, at this point he is just as good, healthier, younger, and at a fraction of D-Will's salary. D-Will is actually a huge negative, Nets would have to add Plumlee otherwise who the hell would want to take on D-Will, what would the incentive be?

Darren Mr. 5 teams in 6 years Collison isn't as good as Deron. I do agree that Collison at his salary is a better bargain, but in terms of basketball ability? Yeah, no.

Agreed. D-Will definitely has more skill.

Unfortunately for him, we're trying to cut salary while still maintaining playoff aspirations in the process. That means we want players where we can get more bang for our buck and right now, D-Will is providing little bang for a whole lotta bucks.

[NyCeEvO]

Jack on the other hand was getting settled in. He is on his 3rd team in as many years and Cleveland was toxic last year. He looks like he is getting comfortable in his role and building chemistry with his teammates. He is the only player on the team who can consistently beat his man off the dribble and draw defenders in the paint to free up our 3pt shooters.

It's absolutely pitiful how many excuses we've had to hear from him since he became a Net.'

Injured wrist.
Sightlines.
Bad teammates.
Bad ankles.
Lost confidence.

What next? Most players with his salary wouldn't have been given such a long leash. Seems like the Nets are finally realizing that the guy they put as the foundation of the last 4 year plan has failed miserably in living up to his side of the deal.

[MrDollarBills]

Hello all on x-mas eve.

According to Woj, King told the Kings to go **** themselves today because Sacto wanted plumlee to take Deron.

At this point, it's not worth losing this guy to dump any one of these schlubs.

How about this?

Deron and Brook are overpaid. Everyone knows this.

Let them come off the bench, and keep the starting 5 Plumlee/KG/Joe/Karasev/Jack

our bench sucks. Having those two play on the 2nd unit will alleviate a lot of problems.

At the end of games, maybe run a Lopez/Plumlee frontcourt, with Joe, Deron, and either Jack or one of the euro guys.

I'm not down with making a trade if it costs us heavily. I'd rather let these pieces of **** expire if that's the case.

[jeff1624]

As a Kings fan I hope this deal doesnt go thru (and no Bmac wont be included in the trade), it's tolerable with Plumlee but D-Will? yuck! I'd rather have Collison, at this point he is just as good, healthier, younger, and at a fraction of D-Will's salary. D-Will is actually a huge negative, Nets would have to add Plumlee otherwise who the hell would want to take on D-Will, what would the incentive be?

Darren Mr. 5 teams in 6 years Collison isn't as good as Deron. I do agree that Collison at his salary is a better bargain, but in terms of basketball ability? Yeah, no.

Agreed. D-Will definitely has more skill.

Unfortunately for him, we're trying to cut salary while still maintaining playoff aspirations in the process. That means we want players where we can get more bang for our buck and right now, D-Will is providing little bang for a whole lotta bucks.

Oh, I definitely agree, I just get annoyed when people say that Collison is just as good or better than Deron... he isn't, and it isn't even close. And happy holidays, bro!

[jeff1624]

Ive been saying this for a while.

Johnson has been flat out gold without Lopez and DWill.

Ive also been screaming from the rooftops that Plumlee and Jack should be playing alot more and that Mirza is a very bad player.

People gave up on Plumlee real fast and never gave Jack a chance.

Plumlee was never going to stay below 50% for long due to the nature of how he plays but that was all people wanted to focus on. I focused on his rebounding and defense and both were much improved whenever he played. He still has to improve in these areas but guess what, he's only in his second year. He's averaging a double double as a starter and he isnt even boxing out properly. That's easy to coach/learn. What's not easy to coach/learn is Plumlee's nose for the ball and his abilty to just outjump people. His ceiling is still ridiculously high as a rebounder.

Jack on the other hand was getting settled in. He is on his 3rd team in as many years and Cleveland was toxic last year. He looks like he is getting comfortable in his role and building chemistry with his teammates. He is the only player on the team who can consistently beat his man off the dribble and draw defenders in the paint to free up our 3pt shooters.

Mirza is the equivalent of Anthony Morrow. Once or twice a month he will hit 6-8 threes in a game and the average fan is excited. What you dont see, or choose to ignore is how bad he is at everything else. He gets lost on defense because he watches the ball causing Plumlee or Jordan to come off their man and help him and leave a big open in the paint with only guards to pick him up. He gets overpowered in the post by average bigs. He gives up rebounds even though he has positioning. I cant watch him give up another offensive rebound off of a missed FT. The worst part is that he isnt even that good on offense. As of today he is only shooting 33.6% on 3pt.

everyone claims D-Will has his explosion back, but he doesnt get to the rim, in fact he barely gets by his guy off the dribble anymore. Jack consistently gets in the painted area. Deron is too heavy up top, even if its muscle instead of fat he needs speed at this age not strength

He's healthier, but man no way has his explosiveness come back. He can't dunk anymore nor can he get any lift on his jumpshots. I have no diea why either. When he got the cortisone shots he was a lot more athletic. Now he looks worse and it's inexplicable. That has influences his shooting thus far, in a negative way.

[MrDollarBills]

This trade will be really dead when D-Will gets his ass handed to him tonight

[Prokorov]

Oh, I definitely agree, I just get annoyed when people say that Collison is just as good or better than Deron... he isn't, and it isn't even close. And happy holidays, bro!

he is just as good if not better and it really isnt debatable. even if you are only talking about offense, what does williams do better other then shoot 3's/FT's?

he doesnt score more efficently
he doesnt assist at a higher rate
he doesnt turn it over less
he doesnt get in the lane more
he doesnt get to the ft line more
he doesnt finsih better
he doesnt get to the line more
he isnt faster
he isnt more athletic
he isnt a better leader
he isnt more durable

he dribbles better, he shoots it better from 3. i dont see how that makes him the better player. people are caught up in the name and pricetag