The Russell Westbrook Thread (2014/15)

[Wall34]

wow i am kinda shocked so apparently KD/Ibaka works better on the p&r then RW/Ibaka did't know that.

[KD35Brah]

wow i am kinda shocked so apparently KD/Ibaka works better on the p&r then RW/Ibaka did't know that.

It's actually one of the most efficient plays in the league. Durant led the league in Points per poss on isos.

Durant makes the whole offense go. On one hand the Thunder lacks in 3PT shooting, we were mediocre in that department even with Durant bombing 6 of them and converting 39% of them last season. 2nd, he is devastating in PnRs/PnP plays. He's the best PnR(in situations, not the flat out best facilitator) player on the team(since last season). PnR or PnP he excels in both, it doesn't matter if he is the receiver or the initiator.



The next chart shows just how much Kevin Durant has benefited from the pick and roll, particularly when playing off of a good screener.


This wasn't shown in the playoffs because Durant was fatigued and along with Westbrook having a phenomenal playoff run. Westbrook was 2nd in the playoffs in "Time of Possession" at 8.6(minutes), only second to Conley's 9.0. Ibaka was severely underused in the post season in the PnR/Pnp situations because Westbrook and Jackson can't deliver the ball to Ibaka that lead to possessions you see in the Video i posted. He still averaged 12ppg on 63% TS with a 122 Ortg.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdmlH3LyzQI[/youtube]

[dfins891]

I disagree that Westbrook has always been worse in the PnR with Ibaka than Durant has. 2 years ago Westbrook assists to Ibaka was the 3rd most of one player assisting another player (behind just CP3 to Blake and Westbrook to Durant). And that was basically all pick and pop plays. Durant only really started utilizing Ibaka in the pick and pop last season when he became the primary ball handler when Westbrook went down.

This season though the Westbrook Ibaka pick and pop has not been very effective and I'm not sure why.

[ardee]

Games like this break my basketball heart. I'm wondering about KD's health, and I now think they're in the playoffs, but I don't see how they're a contender. I'm guessing Ibaka was bad again, b/c AD went nuts, and Russ's decision making was apparently really bad from what I'm reading. Decent chance they lose the next 2 as well, gonna be a tough climb.

Calm down bro it's one game.

OKC is still the most terrifying team in the league in a Playoff series when everyone is playing. No one else has such a combination of skill and athletes.

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[KD35Brah]

I disagree that Westbrook has always been worse in the PnR with Ibaka than Durant has. 2 years ago Westbrook assists to Ibaka was the 3rd most of one player assisting another player (behind just CP3 to Blake and Westbrook to Durant). And that was basically all pick and pop plays. Durant only really started utilizing Ibaka in the pick and pop last season when he became the primary ball handler when Westbrook went down.

This season though the Westbrook Ibaka pick and pop has not been very effective and I'm not sure why.

I should have pointed out since last season.

I also meant that Durant was the best PnR option(initiator or receiver) in most situations since last year.

[bigboi]

Games like this break my basketball heart. I'm wondering about KD's health, and I now think they're in the playoffs, but I don't see how they're a contender. I'm guessing Ibaka was bad again, b/c AD went nuts, and Russ's decision making was apparently really bad from what I'm reading. Decent chance they lose the next 2 as well, gonna be a tough climb.

Calm down bro it's one game.

OKC is still the most terrifying team in the league in a Playoff series when everyone is playing. No one else has such a combination of skill and athletes.

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Idk man, Dallas if they can get Rondo back to his normal self and possibly get JSmoove, they seem like the best team in the league rather easily

[PaulieWal]

Games like this break my basketball heart. I'm wondering about KD's health, and I now think they're in the playoffs, but I don't see how they're a contender. I'm guessing Ibaka was bad again, b/c AD went nuts, and Russ's decision making was apparently really bad from what I'm reading. Decent chance they lose the next 2 as well, gonna be a tough climb.

Calm down bro it's one game.

OKC is still the most terrifying team in the league in a Playoff series when everyone is playing. No one else has such a combination of skill and athletes.

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Idk man, Dallas if they can get Rondo back to his normal self and possibly get JSmoove, they seem like the best team in the league rather easily

Best team in the league? While Rondo and Smith can be good players no way they come close to being the best team unless Rondo improves drastically this season and Smith suddenly becomes the player he never was once in 10 seasons magically.

[bigboi]

Calm down bro it's one game.

OKC is still the most terrifying team in the league in a Playoff series when everyone is playing. No one else has such a combination of skill and athletes.

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Idk man, Dallas if they can get Rondo back to his normal self and possibly get JSmoove, they seem like the best team in the league rather easily

Best team in the league? While Rondo and Smith can be good players no way they come close to being the best team unless Rondo improves drastically this season and Smith suddenly becomes the player he never was once in 10 seasons magically.

If Rondo can shoot better than he has this season and Smith can be the player that he was two years ago then there's no reason why they're not the best team in the league. At the minimum, they would be top 3. And no way, they become close to the best team? You know how dumb that sounds? With the addition with Rondo and Smith, they certainly would have a case of being the best team in the league

[KD35Brah]

Idk man, Dallas if they can get Rondo back to his normal self and possibly get JSmoove, they seem like the best team in the league rather easily

Best team in the league? While Rondo and Smith can be good players no way they come close to being the best team unless Rondo improves drastically this season and Smith suddenly becomes the player he never was once in 10 seasons magically.

If Rondo can shoot better than he has this season and Smith can be the player that he was two years ago then there's no reason why they're not the best team in the league. At the minimum, they would be top 3. And no way, they become close to the best team? You know how dumb that sounds? With the addition with Rondo and Smith, they certainly would have a case of being the best team in the league

Haven't they lost against every Western playoff team?

You really overrate Rondo and Smith. Their defense is still a big problem.

EDIT: They just beat San Antonio's bench.

[PaulieWal]

Idk man, Dallas if they can get Rondo back to his normal self and possibly get JSmoove, they seem like the best team in the league rather easily

Best team in the league? While Rondo and Smith can be good players no way they come close to being the best team unless Rondo improves drastically this season and Smith suddenly becomes the player he never was once in 10 seasons magically.

If Rondo can shoot better than he has this season and Smith can be the player that he was two years ago then there's no reason why they're not the best team in the league. At the minimum, they would be top 3. And no way, they become close to the best team? You know how dumb that sounds? With the addition with Rondo and Smith, they certainly would have a case of being the best team in the league

The only dumb thing here is you thinking that even an improved Rondo/Smith can be better than a healthy OKC/Spurs/GSW/Portland/Bulls/Cavs. And BTW your entire argument is predicated on an incredibly unlikely assumption that both Rondo and Smith will become the better versions of themselves that they were 2 years ago.

[bigboi]

Best team in the league? While Rondo and Smith can be good players no way they come close to being the best team unless Rondo improves drastically this season and Smith suddenly becomes the player he never was once in 10 seasons magically.

If Rondo can shoot better than he has this season and Smith can be the player that he was two years ago then there's no reason why they're not the best team in the league. At the minimum, they would be top 3. And no way, they become close to the best team? You know how dumb that sounds? With the addition with Rondo and Smith, they certainly would have a case of being the best team in the league

The only dumb thing here is you thinking that even an improved Rondo/Smith can be better than a healthy OKC/Spurs/GSW/Portland/Bulls/Cavs. And BTW your entire argument is predicated on an incredibly unlikely assumption that both Rondo and Smith will become the better versions of themselves that they were 2 years ago.

Better versions? No, more like similar versions to the players that they were two years ago. Bulls are not healthy, Cavs are not good right now, GSW is arguable but is overrated, Spurs are not that good right now, and Portland is pretty much a poor man's version of Dallas, OKC will be interesting when they get healthy but still an overrated group. Out of the teams that you gave, only two teams when healthy really stand a match(Bulls aren't really healthy ever so not counting them).

[bigboi]

Best team in the league? While Rondo and Smith can be good players no way they come close to being the best team unless Rondo improves drastically this season and Smith suddenly becomes the player he never was once in 10 seasons magically.

If Rondo can shoot better than he has this season and Smith can be the player that he was two years ago then there's no reason why they're not the best team in the league. At the minimum, they would be top 3. And no way, they become close to the best team? You know how dumb that sounds? With the addition with Rondo and Smith, they certainly would have a case of being the best team in the league

Haven't they lost against every Western playoff team?

You really overrate Rondo and Smith. Their defense is still a big problem.

EDIT: They just beat San Antonio's bench.

Your point? They've only played with Rondo one game and haven't played with Smith.

[PaulieWal]

Better versions? No, more like similar versions to the players that they were two years ago. Bulls are not healthy, Cavs are not good right now, GSW is arguable but is overrated, Spurs are not that good right now, and Portland is pretty much a poor man's version of Dallas, OKC will be interesting when they get healthy but still an overrated group. Out of the teams that you gave, only two teams when healthy really stand a match(Bulls aren't really healthy ever so not counting them).

Okay, let's calm down things a little bit. Firstly, they haven't gotten Smith and who knows that they will.

Secondly, even an improved Rondo and Smith are not good enough to make them a Top 3 team in the league. Now if this were prime Dirk or close to him I would maybe see it but not with this version of Dirk.

Thirdly, how good were Rondo and Smith 2 years ago? They are not #1 options, they were both all-star type players. Put it another way, are Rondo and Smith better than KD/GOAT, Curry/Klay, LMA/Lillard, Cavs Big 3,Spurs' core, heck even Howard/Harden? Not even close. That's why your assertion that they might become best team in the league WITH an improved Rondo/Smith seems way off to me.

[KD35Brah]

If Rondo can shoot better than he has this season and Smith can be the player that he was two years ago then there's no reason why they're not the best team in the league. At the minimum, they would be top 3. And no way, they become close to the best team? You know how dumb that sounds? With the addition with Rondo and Smith, they certainly would have a case of being the best team in the league

The only dumb thing here is you thinking that even an improved Rondo/Smith can be better than a healthy OKC/Spurs/GSW/Portland/Bulls/Cavs. And BTW your entire argument is predicated on an incredibly unlikely assumption that both Rondo and Smith will become the better versions of themselves that they were 2 years ago.

Better versions? No, more like similar versions to the players that they were two years ago. Bulls are not healthy, Cavs are not good right now, GSW is arguable but is overrated, Spurs are not that good right now, and Portland is pretty much a poor man's version of Dallas, OKC will be interesting when they get healthy but still an overrated group. Out of the teams that you gave, only two teams when healthy really stand a match(Bulls aren't really healthy ever so not counting them).

[bigboi]

The only dumb thing here is you thinking that even an improved Rondo/Smith can be better than a healthy OKC/Spurs/GSW/Portland/Bulls/Cavs. And BTW your entire argument is predicated on an incredibly unlikely assumption that both Rondo and Smith will become the better versions of themselves that they were 2 years ago.

Better versions? No, more like similar versions to the players that they were two years ago. Bulls are not healthy, Cavs are not good right now, GSW is arguable but is overrated, Spurs are not that good right now, and Portland is pretty much a poor man's version of Dallas, OKC will be interesting when they get healthy but still an overrated group. Out of the teams that you gave, only two teams when healthy really stand a match(Bulls aren't really healthy ever so not counting them).

If you have nothing to say, don't quote me again with your garbage ass post

[ardee]

How did this thread turn into a Dallas discussion

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[PaulieWal]

How did this thread turn into a Dallas discussion

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Because bigboi responded to your post consoling bondom that Dallas has a chance to be the best team in the league with Rondo and JSmith.

[KD35Brah]

Better versions? No, more like similar versions to the players that they were two years ago. Bulls are not healthy, Cavs are not good right now, GSW is arguable but is overrated, Spurs are not that good right now, and Portland is pretty much a poor man's version of Dallas, OKC will be interesting when they get healthy but still an overrated group. Out of the teams that you gave, only two teams when healthy really stand a match(Bulls aren't really healthy ever so not counting them).

If you have nothing to say, don't quote me again with your garbage ass post

So in the year 2014 Josh Smith and Rajon Rondo are game changers for one of the worst defenses in the league. Josh Smith and Rondo are going change the landscape of the NBA and dominate the Western Conference because they joined the 5th seed Mavs.

Josh Smith and Rajon Rondo going to the Mavs in 2014 make the Spurs(facing injuries), Cavs, Thunder(facing injuries), and GSW(facing injuries) overrated.

[bondom34]

I've been out all day, what the hell is goin on in here?!?!!?

And to Dallas, I like them a lot, but would hate Smith there, they need someone who can shoot other than Dirk. Not Smith.

[Texas Chuck]

How did this thread turn into a Dallas discussion

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No idea, but Dallas isn't the best team in the Association with or without Josh Smith. I still think we likely play round 1 on the road even.